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    Default The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    BLACK POWDER MAGE


    “That be a damn gud fireball there, laddie…but step ye aside. I’ve got sommat t’will rattle ‘is very bones.”
    -Brak Fiedalbak, Black Powder Mage


    Black Powder Mages are earthly mages, those without arcane power of any sort. Yet their skill with firearms is almost magical, and thus the name was born. In the hands of a Black Powder Mage a simple gun becomes an incredible instrument of death and destruction, and woe betide the one who makes an enemy of a mage.

    MAKING A BLACK POWDER MAGE
    Abilities: A high Dexterity score is crucial to making a good Black Powder Mage, as it not only controls their accuracy but their damage as well. A high Constitution is useful for survival, and a decent Wisdom score helps with seeking and finding targets.
    Races: Dwarves and Gnomes, with their penchant for invention and their skill with things such as firearms and smokepowder, make up most of the Black Powder Mage population. Elves are possibly the least common, as the style is directly opposite the grace and majesty of the elves’ culture.
    Alignment: Any. Black Powder Mages use their abilities as they see fit, and don’t let things like alignment stand in their way.
    Starting Gold: 4d4x10. In addition, a Black Powder Mage beings play with a Blunderbuss (See below for details).
    Starting Age: As Fighter.

    Class Skills
    The Black Powder Mage's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Tumble (Dex).
    Skills Per Day at 1st Level : (4 + Int)x4
    Skills Per Day at Each Additional Level : 4 + Int

    Hit Dice: d8

    Black Powder Mage
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Breath o’ the Black Powder Dragon 1/encounter, Lucky Shot 1/encounter

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Hit ‘em where it Hurts

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Barrel Blast +1d10
    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Quick Load I, Ain’t Gonna Hit Me

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Barrel Blast +2d10, Lucky Shot 2/encounter

    6th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Breath o’ the Black Powder Dragon 2/encounter, Knockback Shot

    7th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Barrel Blast +3d10, Ring o’ Fire I

    8th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |Gotcha’ Covered, ‘Twixt the Eyes 1/day

    9th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |Barrel Blast +4d10, Lucky Shot 3/encounter

    10th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Quick Load II

    11th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Barrel Blast +5d10, Breath o’ the Black Powder

    12th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |Flingin' Lead, ‘Twixt the Eyes 2/day

    13th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |Barrel Blast +6d10, Lucky Shot 4/encounter

    14th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |Ring o’ Fire II

    15th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |Barrel Blast +7d10, Penetrating Shot

    16th|
    +16/+11/+6/+1
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |Breath o’ the Black Powder Dragon 4/encounter, ‘Twixt the Eyes 3/day

    17th|
    +17/+12/+7/+2
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |Barrel Blast +8d10, Lucky Shot 5/encounter

    18th|
    +18/+13/+8/+3
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |Take ‘em Down

    19th|
    +19/+14/+9/+4
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |Barrel Blast +9d10

    20th|
    +20/+15/+10/+5
    |
    +12
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |Black Powder Mage, ‘Twixt the Eyes 4/day

    [/table]


    Weapon Proficiencies: A Black Powder Mage is proficient with all simple weapons, all firearms, and light and medium armor.

    Class Features
    The following are all class features of the Black Powder Mage.

    Breath o’ the Black Powder Dragon: Once per encounter, as a standard action, a Black Powder Mage may blanket an area in a rain of hot lead. All enemies within a 30ft cone must make a Reflex save (DC 10 + ˝ your class level + your Dex modifier) or take damage as if they had been shot by your firearm. A successful Reflex save results in half damage. This ability may only be used when the Black Powder Mage is wielding a Blunderbuss.
    A Black Powder Mage may use this ability an additional time per encounter for every five class levels above 1st.
    Lucky Shot: Once per encounter, as a swift action, a Black Powder Mage may re-roll any single attack roll made with a firearm. You must take the re-roll, even if it is worse than the original roll.
    A Black Powder Mage may use this ability an additional time per encounter for every four class levels above 1st.
    Hit ‘em where it Hurts: At second level a Black Powder Mages adds his Dexterity modifier to his firearm damage.
    Barrel Blast: Beginning at third level a Black Powder Mage may add the listed die to the damage dealt whenever he fires his Blunderbuss. This extra damage is not multiplied on a critical hit. This applies to all class abilities unless otherwise specified.
    Quick Load: At forth level a Black Powder Mage may load his Blunderbuss as a move equivalent action that does not draw an attack of opportunity. He may load a pistol as a free action. At tenth level you may load your blunderbuss as a free action.
    Ain’t Gonna Hit Me: At forth level you do not provoke attacks op opportunity for firing from within a threatened area.
    Knockback Shot: Beginning at sixth level, a Black Powder Mage may take a -4 penalty to his attack roll to knock his opponent flying. If your attack lands, your opponent must make a Reflex save (DC 10 +1/2 your class level + your Dex modifier). If your opponent fails the save, he is knocked 10ft away in the direction of your choice and falls prone in the square he ends up in. Barrel Blast damage applies to this attack. This abilities applies to all class features that require an attack roll and may only be used in conjunction with a Blunderbuss. The opponent does not provoke attacks of opportunity for moving in this manner.
    Ring o’ Fire: Beginning at seventh level, a Black Powder Mage threatens all squares within 5ft of him with his firearm as if he were wielding a melee weapon. You may make attacks of opportunity with your firearm. At 14th level you threaten everything within 10ft of you.
    Gotcha’ Covered: Beginning at eighth level, whenever an opponent within your first range increment attempts an attack of opportunity against an ally, you may sacrifice an attack of opportunity to make a ranged attack against that foe as a free action. If you hit, you deal normal ranged damage (do not apply Barrel Blast or Knockback Shot to this attack) and your opponent cannot make attacks of opportunity for the rest of the round.
    ‘Twixt the Eyes: Beginning at eighth level, a Black Powder Mage learns to strike with incredible accuracy. Once per day, as a full-round action, make an attack roll against a single opponent in range. The attack (if it hits) is considered to be a critical threat regardless of the number rolled.
    A Black Powder Mage may use this ability an additional time per encounter for every four class levels above 8th.
    Flingin' Lead At 12th level a Black Powder Mage learns to fire off a barrage. As a full-round action you may make two attacks with your firearm, applying Barrel Blast damage to each. You may use Knockback Shot or Breath o' the Black Powder Dragon in conjunction with this ability, but must either use it on every shot or on none.
    Penetrating Shot: At 15th level a Black Powder Mage learns the art of puncturing wounds. As a standard action, you may choose to target every creature within a 60ft line with your firearm. Make a separate attack roll against each creature. If struck, creatures along this line take damage from your shot. Apply Barrel Blast damage only to the first creature struck in this fashion. You cannot combine Knockback Shot with this ability.
    Take ‘em Down: Beginning at 18th level, any time you roll a natural 20 with your firearm and confirm the critical, your opponent must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your class level + your Dex modifier) or die instantly. This ability also activates if you confirm a critical through ‘Twixt the Eyes.
    Black Powder Mage: At 20th level a Black Powder Mage reaches the peak of his abilities. As a full-round action, you may make a ranged attack at your highest attack bonus against as many targets as you wish. You can attack each target just once with this attack, calculating range and cover penalties from your position on the battlefield. Apply your Barrel Blast damage to each attack. You may use Knockback Shot in conjunction with this ability, but must either use it on every shot or on none.

    __________________________________________________ _____

    Firearms:

    Blunderbuss: Size-Large; Damage-Special (see below); Critical-x3; Range-30ft; Type-Piercing; Cost-250gp; Weight-15lbs

    A Blunderbuss is an unusual weapon in that it's damage is dependent on the distance to the target. If the target is within the first range increment the weapon deals 3d10 damage, if the target is within second range increment the weapon deals 2d10 damage, and if the target is within the remaining range increments the weapon deals 1d10 damage. Loading a Blunderbuss is a full-round action that provokes an attack of opportunity. Additionally, a Blunderbuss is notoriously slow to fire. Firing a Blunderbuss is a standard action: no more than one shot may be fired per round unless an ability specifically states otherwise.

    Pistol: Size-Small; Damage-2d6; Critical-x3; Range-30ft; Type-Piercing; Cost-75gp; Weight-4lbs

    Loading a Pistol is a standard that provokes an attack of opportunity.


    Designer's Note: It's a powerful class, but I felt that, as it's Warlock based and focused PURELY on damage, it could get a bit of a boost since it looses out on many good abilities from Invocations. At low levels the massive damage is balanced by a slow firing rate, and high levels the damage is about that of a well-built melee fighter.

    Any and all comments/criticism is welcome.
    Last edited by Necromimesis; 2008-01-05 at 11:41 PM.

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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    All right, I'll just go to GItP and find this that way... (saw the thread at WotC)

    Overall, I like this class very much...unusual, flavorful, and (apparently) workable. I'd even consider playing one, and I am not a fan of black powder weapons in FRPGs. Just a couple of nit-picks.

    Knockback Shot: Instead of a Fort save I recommend using the mechanics for a bull rush, perhaps using the BPM's attack roll as the "Strength check." As written, this effect is surprisingly devestating to huge, massive creatures with lousy Fort saves, such as golems and hulking undead.

    'Twixt the Eyes: If you want to compete with spellcasters, you need raw power. I recommend one or two more daily uses of this ability...either 10/15/20, or even 8/12/16/20.

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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    Thanks for the feedback. I'll definitely change the mechanics of Knockback Shot after that comment.

    As for 'Twixt the Eyes...I was afraid that originally it would be to powerful once Take 'em down kicked in, but you may be right.

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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    Just a tip- go here to get the code for your tables, it's a simple copy/paste affair once you've selected all of the parameters.

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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    I honestly have to say that I like this class(but blackpowder guns are close to my heart, so I may be biased). Its very solid, good skill points, saves, etc.

    My only criticism is for the pistol. Whats the point? Very few abilities work with it, and it seems to be in there just for completeness. You could consider allowing it barrel blast with a d6 rather than a d10, but only allow it to apply to one pistol shot a round.

    Otherwise, very good.
    Last edited by GunMage; 2008-01-03 at 10:39 AM.
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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    There ought to be something clarifying that using the blunderbuss and/or barrel blast is limited to a standard action attack instead of a full attack, otherwise once they can reload as free actions I don't see why they couldn't full attack and get four +9d10 shots in one round.

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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by GunMage View Post
    I honestly have to say that I like this class(but blackpowder guns are close to my heart, so I may be biased). Its very solid, good skill points, saves, etc.

    My only criticism is for the pistol. Whats the point? Very few abilities work with it, and it seems to be in there just for completeness. You could consider allowing it barrel blast with a d6 rather than a d10, but only allow it to apply to one pistol shot a round.

    Otherwise, very good.
    Biased is fine.

    As for the pistol, it's there as a back-up weapon early on, so you can do something besides reload every other round. Additionally, it's useful for several class abilities, such as Lucky Shot, Hit 'em Where it Hurts, Gotcha' Covered, Ring o' Fire, 'Twixt the Eyes and Take 'em Down. It's never as good as your Blunderbuss, but it's not a bad backup weapon to possess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necromas
    There ought to be something clarifying that using the blunderbuss and/or barrel blast is limited to a standard action attack instead of a full attack, otherwise once they can reload as free actions I don't see why they couldn't full attack and get four +9d10 shots in one round.
    Fixed. Now you can no longer make iterative attacks with a Blunderbuss, due to the slow firing rate.

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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Necromimesis View Post
    Biased is fine.

    As for the pistol, it's there as a back-up weapon early on, so you can do something besides reload every other round. Additionally, it's useful for several class abilities, such as Lucky Shot, Hit 'em Where it Hurts, Gotcha' Covered, Ring o' Fire, 'Twixt the Eyes and Take 'em Down. It's never as good as your Blunderbuss, but it's not a bad backup weapon to possess.
    Alright, that makes a lot of sense.
    Threads derailed:1

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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    Overall an exciting and unique class, though I am unsure about how well some of its abilities are balanced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necromimesis View Post
    Lucky Shot: Once per encounter, as a swift action, a Black Powder Mage may re-roll any single attack roll made with a firearm. You must take the re-roll, even if it is worse than the original roll.
    A Black Powder Mage may use this ability an additional time per encounter for every four class levels above 1st.
    Combined with his full attack bonus, being able to use this power sever times per encounter is very powerful, and makes the BM extremely accurate, hardly ever missing his target. Perhaps you should tone this down to /day instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necromimesis View Post
    Knockback Shot: Beginning at sixth level, a Black Powder Mage may take a -4 penalty to his attack roll to knock his opponent flying. If your attack lands, your opponent takes normal firearm damage and is subject to a Bull Rush attack with your attack roll taking the place of your Strength check. If your opponent fails the strength check, he is pushed back and falls prone in the square he ends up in. Barrel Blast damage applies to this attack. This abilities applies to all class features that require an attack roll and may only be used in conjunction with a Blunderbuss.
    This ability makes for bull rushes almost impossible to resist, due to the black powder mage's attack roll being way higher than most creature's strength scores, especially at high levels. This should probably be toned down a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necromimesis View Post
    Gotcha’ Covered: Beginning at eighth level, whenever an opponent within your first range increment would gain an attack of opportunity against an ally, you may make a ranged attack against that foe as a free action. If you hit, you deal normal ranged damage (do not apply Barrel Blast or Knockback Shot to this attack) and your opponent cannot make attacks of opportunity for the rest of the round.
    This could make for some really strange tactics on the player's side. Provoking as many attacks of opportunities as possible would now be beneficial to a party, which would screw up the combat system in most battles. It should at the very least be changed to "attempts an attack of opportunity" rather than "would gain an attack of opportunity", to give the enemies a chance to avoid it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necromimesis View Post
    ‘Twixt the Eyes: Beginning at eighth level, a Black Powder Mage learns to strike with incredible accuracy. Once per day, as a full-round action, make an attack roll against a single opponent in range. The attack (if it hits) is considered to be a critical threat regardless of the number rolled.
    A Black Powder Mage may use this ability an additional time per encounter for every four class levels above 8th.
    Seems extremely powerful, and with the right feats I'm sure this could be exploited to work even better. An attack that significantly increases the threat range would perhaps be preferable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necromimesis View Post
    Take ‘em Down: Beginning at 18th level, any time you roll a natural 20 with your firearm and confirm the critical, your opponent must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your class level + your Dex modifier) or die instantly. This ability also activates if you confirm a critical through ‘Twixt the Eyes.
    Save-or-die effects several times per encounter when combined with ‘Twixt the Eyes. Way too powerful in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necromimesis View Post
    Black Powder Mage: At 20th level a Black Powder Mage reaches the peak of his abilities. As a full-round action, you may make a ranged attack at your highest attack bonus against as many targets as you wish. You can attack each target just once with this attack, calculating range and cover penalties from your position on the battlefield. Apply your Barrel Blast damage to each attack. You may use Knockback Shot in conjunction with this ability, but must either use it on every shot or on none.
    As many as you wish? Are you serious? You should at least set an upper limit to the number of targets, so that you aren't able to destroy an entire army of creatures per round, as well as every single pebble and grain of sand within reach. Keeping this ability as it is would be ridiculous

    Also, I think, as you suspected, that the damage output is a bit too much. Noone would want to play a blaster-warlock when this class is around. But still, I really like the flavour, and if you fix it up a bit it'll be a really fun class to play
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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceres View Post
    On Lucky Shot
    Combined with his full attack bonus, being able to use this power sever times per encounter is very powerful, and makes the BM extremely accurate, hardly ever missing his target. Perhaps you should tone this down to /day instead.
    That's the thing...this is a one attack/round build, with no extra attacks to fall back on, and, unlike a Warlock, it requires a FULL attack roll to hit, not just a ranged touch. When you only get one action, the ability to make it land counts for a lot. Still, I'll consider this.

    On Knockback Shot
    This ability makes for bull rushes almost impossible to resist, due to the black powder mage's attack roll being way higher than most creature's strength scores, especially at high levels. This should probably be toned down a bit.
    I was also somewhat hesitant about this, but, as pointed out, the original Fortitude save made large constructs and undead very weak against this ability. Any ideas for fixing it?

    On Gotcha' Covered
    This could make for some really strange tactics on the player's side. Provoking as many attacks of opportunities as possible would now be beneficial to a party, which would screw up the combat system in most battles. It should at the very least be changed to "attempts an attack of opportunity" rather than "would gain an attack of opportunity", to give the enemies a chance to avoid it.
    Strange tactics is the idea. However, changing it to "attempts an attack of opportunity" is a good idea. Consider that updated as of now.


    On 'Twixt the Eyes
    Seems extremely powerful, and with the right feats I'm sure this could be exploited to work even better. An attack that significantly increases the threat range would perhaps be preferable.
    No more powerful than maneuvers of a comparable level, and also used much less often. I'm not overly concerned about this ability. Just a way to allow a ranged fighter to Nova much like a caster, albeit much less often and for a weaker effect. Also, don't forget that they still have to confirm the critical.


    [b]On Take 'em Down[b]
    Save-or-die effects several times per encounter when combined with ‘Twixt the Eyes. Way too powerful in my opinion.
    Something easily accomplished with Vorpal, just with ranged weapons this time. The fact that it works with 'Twixt the Eyes gives us a 1-4/day death effect...not really that powerful in the big scheme of things. Plus, there's an attack roll AND a critical conformation AND a save required. Also, it's a level 18 ability. What else comes at level 18? Let's see...oh, right. 9th level spells and 9th level martial maneuvers. This doesn't seem to far out of line to me.


    On Black Powder Mage
    As many as you wish? Are you serious? You should at least set an upper limit to the number of targets, so that you aren't able to destroy an entire army of creatures per round, as well as every single pebble and grain of sand within reach. Keeping this ability as it is would be ridiculous
    Tell that to the Bloodstorm Blade, who gets this ability at level 10, or total character level 15. Giving it as a 20th level cap ability seems perfectly fine to me.

    Also, I think, as you suspected, that the damage output is a bit too much. Noone would want to play a blaster-warlock when this class is around. But still, I really like the flavour, and if you fix it up a bit it'll be a really fun class to play
    The damage is actually about average...at level 20 it's dealing about 88 damage per attack (considering a +5 weapon and a 30 Dex), which is weaker than a ToB fighter's damage and also weaker than almost any full-attack routine by a half-decent fighter. It's full attack clocks in at about 160 for a point blank attack, which, while quite good, can easily be outclassed.

    That said, I'm willing to tone it down if I get enough agreement on this.

    Thanks for the critique!
    Last edited by Necromimesis; 2008-01-04 at 11:45 AM.

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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    sigh. i posted a long review of this class a few days ago. unfortunately it appears that either my comp, or the net gobbled it up.

    a lot of the stuff i went over has already been covered. but i will go over what i can.

    first of all, bravo! good job. i tried to come up with a pistoleer class of sorts a while ago--didn't get very far. this is much better than mine.

    barrel blast--i like if it is only useable 1/round. i would change some of the wording on the gun though. i would say that it takes a standard act to fire the blunderbuss. it just seems more mechanically correct than 'no iterive attacks'.

    got 'em covered--very good. i like this ability a lot. but i think that you should make it a AoO. that way the mage is still limited (until epic combat reflexes) on how many he can have, plus it uses a mechanic already in place in the system. PLUS it uses a mechanic already in use in your system, Ring o' Fire.

    i am confused by the mechanic of hit 'em w/ both barrels. as it is worded, it leaves me with a few questions. does a blunderbuss actually have 2 barrels (gonna look this up on google in a sec...)? if so, why not build that mechanic into more than just this ability? if not, i would reword it. call it a double-load or something. mage learns to load two rounds into the breach without blowing himself to smithereens. then have him make two attack rolls against the same target in the same attack. Or if you do a double-barrel deal, give it the mechanic that on any standard action attack action with the blunder, the mage can fire two shots instead of one. that is always useful, even at higher levels, as many times the mage will have to move-attack, move-attack, especially sniper types (though i can't imagine sniping w/ a weapon as loud as a small cannon; guess that is what the silence spell is for).

    if you decide to give the shooter a mechanic or a feat to allow more shots per round than just one, i would make the barrel blast apply only to first shot.

    also, i am imagining a scene where a mage has his blunder, and a whole collection of pistols as back-up. remember the shoot-out in boondock saints in front of the house with the assassin and his vest of pistols? you could make a few more AoOs and normal attacks with those and the quickdraw feat.

    also, come up with stats for the musket, the arquebuss, and the pistol-sized blunderbuss. others too if you can think of them.

    i am sure there was more, but as i said, a lot has already been covered. overall, good job.

    now, if the server doesn't let me on this time, i'm gonna throw my comp out the window.

    aaron out.
    Last edited by Stycotl; 2008-01-04 at 02:24 PM.
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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    dude, make a punt gun too! that would be sweet. can you imagine an11-foot long shotgun firing one pound worth of shot out of a 50mm barrel? now imagine a couple of bpmages set up in an ambush with these. these would be line-effect attacks. look up 'punt gun' on youtube. some pretty cool stuff.
    Last edited by Stycotl; 2008-01-04 at 02:43 PM.
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    HalflingRogueGirl

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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Necromimesis View Post
    BLACK POWDER MAGE


    [
    Ain’t Gonna Hit Me: At forth level you do not provoke attacks op opportunity for firing from within a threatened area.
    Knockback Shot: Beginning at sixth level, a Black Powder Mage may take a -4 penalty to his attack roll to knock his opponent flying. If your attack lands, your opponent takes normal firearm damage and is subject to a Bull Rush attack with your attack roll taking the place of your Strength check. If your opponent fails the strength check, he is pushed back and falls prone in the square he ends up in. Barrel Blast damage applies to this attack. This abilities applies to all class features that require an attack roll and may only be used in conjunction with a Blunderbuss.
    Ring o’ Fire: Beginning at seventh level, a Black Powder Mage threatens all squares within 5ft of him with his firearm as if he were wielding a melee weapon. You may make attacks of opportunity with your firearm. At 14th level you threaten everything within 10ft of you.


    Any and all comments/criticism is welcome.
    I was just looking the class over for cheese-ability,(one of my players is an insane power-gamer), and noticed something incrediby cheap at higher levels. Once they get Ring o' fire BPMs can kill any foe who tries to melee them. Make sure you're followig me. A BPM uses Hit 'em wit' both barrels against an adjacent foe in conjunction with knock-back shot. This theoretically forces the foe back through two squares of threatened area and provokes two attacks of oppritunity if the BPM is at leat 14th lvl. So basically a damage dealing class, whose only mitigating factor is very few attacks, is able to get four attacks in a round. With a 14th lvl BPM could easily get 200pts. of damage off barrel blast alone. Apart from that though nice flavor and mechanics.

    Please fix this burp, I can't think how to but I would love to use the class in my campaign.
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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Necromimesis View Post
    Tell that to the Bloodstorm Blade, who gets this ability at level 10, or total character level 15. Giving it as a 20th level cap ability seems perfectly fine to me.
    But the Bloodstorm Blade is usually using a weapon that does something around 1d12+10 strength+5 weapon+1d6 random energy damage, as opposed to anywhere from 1 to 3d10+9d10 to each enemy+10 dexterity

    So, average: 25 damage vs. 55-66 damage.

    I'm thinking that the Black Powder Mage is still the more powerful one here.
    Also, I believe that vorpal is for melee weapons only because it would be too powerful at 90 feet away.
    Last edited by Kai-Palin; 2008-01-04 at 04:59 PM.

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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Stycotl View Post
    barrel blast--i like if it is only useable 1/round. i would change some of the wording on the gun though. i would say that it takes a standard act to fire the blunderbuss. it just seems more mechanically correct than 'no iterive attacks'.
    1/round it is, but if that wording helps make it clearer, so be it.

    got 'em covered--very good. i like this ability a lot. but i think that you should make it a AoO. that way the mage is still limited (until epic combat reflexes) on how many he can have, plus it uses a mechanic already in place in the system. PLUS it uses a mechanic already in use in your system, Ring o' Fire.
    Can do. Seems alright by me.

    i am confused by the mechanic of hit 'em w/ both barrels. as it is worded, it leaves me with a few questions. does a blunderbuss actually have 2 barrels (gonna look this up on google in a sec...)? if so, why not build that mechanic into more than just this ability? if not, i would reword it. call it a double-load or something. mage learns to load two rounds into the breach without blowing himself to smithereens. then have him make two attack rolls against the same target in the same attack. Or if you do a double-barrel deal, give it the mechanic that on any standard action attack action with the blunder, the mage can fire two shots instead of one. that is always useful, even at higher levels, as many times the mage will have to move-attack, move-attack, especially sniper types (though i can't imagine sniping w/ a weapon as loud as a small cannon; guess that is what the silence spell is for).
    Double Load might be a better name...also, it's on a full-attack for a reason: Damage. It's moderately high when this is used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Knight
    I was just looking the class over for cheese-ability,(one of my players is an insane power-gamer), and noticed something incrediby cheap at higher levels. Once they get Ring o' fire BPMs can kill any foe who tries to melee them. Make sure you're followig me. A BPM uses Hit 'em wit' both barrels against an adjacent foe in conjunction with knock-back shot. This theoretically forces the foe back through two squares of threatened area and provokes two attacks of oppritunity if the BPM is at leat 14th lvl. So basically a damage dealing class, whose only mitigating factor is very few attacks, is able to get four attacks in a round. With a 14th lvl BPM could easily get 200pts. of damage off barrel blast alone. Apart from that though nice flavor and mechanics.
    Nice Catch! I'll get right on that one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kai-Palin
    But the Bloodstorm Blade is usually using a weapon that does something around 1d12+10 strength+5 weapon+1d6 random energy damage, as opposed to anywhere from 1 to 3d10+9d10 to each enemy+10 dexterity

    So, average: 25 damage vs. 55-66 damage.

    I'm thinking that the Black Powder Mage is still the more powerful one here.
    Also, I believe that vorpal is for melee weapons only because it would be too powerful at 90 feet away.
    True. However, against other things like itself, I'm not to worried about damage. Archer builds can easily get over 100 damage/round by level 10, and I've seen level 20 builds with 500+ damage...that leaves the poor Black Powder Mage in the dust. The damage isn't going down until I've had a playtest run...if it proves far to powerful, I'll drop it. Remember though...it's only an increase of about +18 damage from the warlock (and +Dex), and this class looses a lot of versatility in exchange for that extra damage.


    UPDATES:
    *Blast 'em with Both Barrels renamed to Flingin' Lead
    *Knockback Shot mechanics changed to resemble Awesome Blow, thus solving the problem of attacks of opportunity in conjunction with Gotcha' Covered. Still not completely satisfied with the mechanics...suggestions are welcome.
    Last edited by Necromimesis; 2008-01-04 at 05:40 PM.

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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    Alright, I like this infact I have a player who always carries a gun (I don't mind them because they are weaker then a bow in most ways)

    One quam I have. I have a price of 35gp for a horn of 20 shots of gunpowder.

    A bullet costs 2gp for 10.

    This guy seems to eat ammo. Can i get some estimates on how much ammo is used on each ability?

    other then that. I like it. Sooo would add to my Homebrew world.


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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    Well, the Black Powder Mage is meant to come from a world where gunpowder weapons are slightly more common, and, as such, powder and bullets would be cheaper...probably even less than arrows (casting lead is easier than fletching, after all).

    Firing a pistol or a Blunderbuss would use 1 bullet, Black Powder Mage would use one bullet per opponent, and Breath o' the Black Powder Dragon would probably use buckshot or something like that, if you really want to be realistic. However, as written, Breath o' the Black Powder Dragon still uses 1 bullet.

    So, for the purposes of making it easy to use, every individual shot uses 1 bullet.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    Love this class, but... how does Ring o' Fire work if reloading is still a move-equivalent action until the level 10 version of Quick Shot comes into play?
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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    That's why you take Quick Draw and pack some pistols. It also works with a Blunderbuss if you've loaded buy haven't fired yet.

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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    then come the magic weapons where the guns reload themselves. considering the quickload ability, not too impressive. but considering that you would never have to buy powder or lead again for the weapons (or worry about them becoming unusable when your character is drenched, or your powder horn is sundered, etc), not too shabby.
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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    Could you have a +1 speed blunderbuss and make three attacks with flingin' lead? Or would that not get around the no iterative attacks thing?
    Last edited by SilentNight; 2008-01-05 at 11:31 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by averagejoe View Post
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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    In theory you could...so, since that shouldn't be possible, I changed the Blunderbuss rules. It's slightly unusual for a weapon rule, but since it's really a class-specific weapon I think it's okay.

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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    Sorry about trying to break the class, I should know how annoying it can be. I just want it to be safe for my game. Again congrats on a wonderful class.
    To know that just one life has breathed easier because you have lived, that is to have succeeded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by averagejoe View Post
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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    It's not annoying at ALL. I actually really appreciate it, as I wouldn't catch half of these on my own.

    However, if you do end up using it (which I wholeheartedly approve of), keep me posted on it's general balance/effectiveness, won't you? I'd love some actual playtest advice, since the campaign I planned to play this in is currently stalled, and may not actually start for some time.

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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    I've always felt I'm not great at judging balance, but this seems extremely overpowered to me...just too many abilities which combine for ridiculous damage output.

    Honestly, +9d10 damage, on any attack and most abilities? That seems a bit depressing for the rogue, with his +10d6 melee only, only when flat-footed/denied their dex bonus (which tends to happen less and less at higher levels)...

    Also, one attack per person is ridiculous...I know: I have a DM who likes to hand out ridiculously overpowered items, and one character got that, except it takes an action to activate...
    Last edited by Icewalker; 2008-01-06 at 03:58 AM.

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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    Actually, the rogue hits +10d6 when he flanks, too. 2 rogues with high AC can absolutely destroy many opponents. +9d10 isn't that much of an issue when you take into account that the rogue gets +10d6, and +9d10 is around warlock Eldricth Blast damage.
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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kai-Palin View Post
    But the Bloodstorm Blade is usually using a weapon that does something around 1d12+10 strength+5 weapon+1d6 random energy damage, as opposed to anywhere from 1 to 3d10+9d10 to each enemy+10 dexterity

    So, average: 25 damage vs. 55-66 damage.
    ever seen a hulking hurler bloodstorm blade?
    yeah.. average 25 dmg me bum :P

    sry, just had to be said :P

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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    This is great! There's gotta be a prestige class based around demolitions, though.

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    Default Re: The Black Powder Mage [Base Class]

    I'll add that to my to-do list...that, a few other PrC type things, and some feats will probably be coming along eventually.

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