spells learned per level query

[Idea Man]

How badly off would a wizard really be if he didn't get two free spells per level? It's not like he couldn't get his hands on higher level scrolls (they are the cheapest item to get by spell level/cost), so why do they need a two spell per level handout? Technically, they end up with more spells available than the sorcerer by twentieth level, and that's if the wizard adds no extra spells in his career!

Would a wizard be unplayable like this?

Would he even be slowed down?

What would it change, for the player, if this were done?

[Bag_of_Holding]

It'll just make the party wizard a gold-eating monster.

[herrhauptmann]

The biggest problem I see with it is that sometimes the DM is a jerk that won't allow a 10th level wizard to buy a scroll of featherfall so he can attempt to learn it. Let alone a dominate spell.
Also, some dungeon crawls can end up being overly long (5 levels was the biggest I've seen), particularly when the rest of the party refuses to leave for much needed healing and resupply. After all, the wizard, cleric and rogue all get their magic items from the corpses of the fallen. The wizard should be able to make do as well with the 4 scrolls he found on the mini-boss, right?

[Talic]

The biggest problem I see with it is that sometimes the DM is a jerk that won't allow a 10th level wizard to buy a scroll of featherfall so he can attempt to learn it. Let alone a dominate spell.
Also, some dungeon crawls can end up being overly long (5 levels was the biggest I've seen), particularly when the rest of the party refuses to leave for much needed healing and resupply. After all, the wizard, cleric and rogue all get their magic items from the corpses of the fallen. The wizard should be able to make do as well with the 4 scrolls he found on the mini-boss, right?

No. WBL guidelines are set for a reason. The treasure tables are set to highball it a bit to account for one shot/limited use items, such as potions, wands, and scrolls. Giving a wizard something that's going to be gone in an hour, while giving the rest of the party real, tangible benefits isn't going to be fun for the wizard.

Best solution, the only spells that should be given out in that manner are the higher level, rare spells that aren't prevalent in your world. The really useful ones, such as disintigrate.

[Idea Man]

@Bag_of_Holding: They aren't gold-eating machines? You need to meet my players.

@herrhauptmann: The DM shouldn't prohibit magic item availablility if there are no time constraints or challenges that call for the specific spell. That's just being a pain, and I would hope none of us get stuck with that kind of DM (Yeah, sure. Somebody has to, or we wouldn't ever hear about it, right?).

Certainly, if you do extended adventures with no chance to level, it hurts, big time, but that's supposed to be thirteen encounters per level of your challenge rating (theoretically). Mind you, I have played in that kind of game. I didn't enjoy it. again, if the DM won't hand the wizard something he can use in the interim, like a wand, he really is just being a jerk.

@Talic: WBL does account for that, and fortunately, scrolls are one of the most common items. However, by the reasoning that the wizard now needs a way to keep from burning all of his part of the prospective loot, the DM would need to allow/remind the wizard to have a want on standby, just in case. After all, he does have some spells, just not as many.

[Matthew]

I would say removing the automatically gained spells was a fairly common House Rule used to keep Wizards under control at mid levels. What it mainly does is keep what spells are available even more tightly in the hands of the DM. Personally, I go one step further; the only spells available are those on my list.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

It could probably work from mid to high levels, but a low level wizard easily becomes a one trick pony without these extra spells.

What it mainly does is keep what spells are available even more tightly in the hands of the DM. Personally, I go one step further; the only spells available are those on my list.

You can still keep it as tight as you want to. Just limit what free spells are available and restrict research to ares you find prudent.

(Assuming that you have enough spells on your approved list of course )

[Craig1f]

No. WBL guidelines are set for a reason. The treasure tables are set to highball it a bit to account for one shot/limited use items, such as potions, wands, and scrolls. Giving a wizard something that's going to be gone in an hour, while giving the rest of the party real, tangible benefits isn't going to be fun for the wizard.

For potions and wands that's true. But for scrolls, if a wizard finds a scroll that's not in his book, he's probably going to scribe it in his book rather than cast the scroll.

I think a good modification to the rule would be, that instead of the Wizard just automatically getting two new spells, he gains the supernatural ability to scribe two scrolls, without expending the scrolls in the process, and without spending money for supplies to copy it to his spell book. Maybe it should also be easier to copy, let's say, it takes four hours, regardless of the level of the spell, and he can do both in the same day.

So, he levels, goes into a dungeon, finds Dominate Monster scroll, and a Disintegrate scroll, and after they leave the dungeon, he copies both scrolls to his book.

[Idea Man]

@Matthew: Hmm, how restrictive is your list? If it just PHB, with specific restrictions like "no polymorph", that would be easy enough.

@Lord Silvanos: I agree that it could be a one trick pony, but fortunately, the rules can work for us, too.

One of the most common magic items on the random treasure charts is scrolls, with a high probability of them being arcane (and very high of not being bard specific). Also, if the party should ever face a wizard at low levels, his spellbook is a godsend for this struggling wizard. As a bonus, he probably will get a chance to rest afterwards, since wizards are typically not goons at low levels.

Still, it comes down to the DM working with his players, not against them. If he'll help them play within his restrictions, everybody can still have fun.

@Craig1f: That's a good idea. I might not remove the cost to scribe, myself, but the ability to scribe the two spells as soon as possible is a nice addition. Keeps in the flavor of just reaching a new level of power, his research/abilities spike, he gets a flash of insight/becomes inspired, and WHAM!, crams in two spells in one day. That works for me.