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Thread: Redwaaaall!

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    Default Redwaaaall!

    Mice:

    - Mice gain no ability modifiers.
    - Small size
    - Base land speed is 30 feet
    - Mice gain an extra feat at first level.
    - Base languages: Common. Bonus languages: Any
    - Mice gain four bonus skill points at first level, and another one each level thereafter.
    - Mice gain no natural attacks

    Hares:

    - Hares gain +2 charisma and -2 wisdom
    - Medium size
    - Base land speed is 40 feet
    - Hares can kick powerfully with their hind legs, giving them a slam attack for 1d6 damage with 1 1/2 strength bonus to damage
    - +1 natural armor bonus, and +1 dodge bonus, hares have thick fur, and are extremely spry.
    - Base languages: Common. Bonus languages: Reptilian, Avian, Amphibian, Burrow.

    Otters:

    - Otters gain +2 strength, -2 intelligence
    - Medium size
    - Base land speed is 20 feet, swim speed 40 ft
    - Otters gain weapon familiarity with otter double javelins
    - Otters gain a +8 racial bonus on swim checks, and can always choose to take 10, even if rushed or threatened.
    - Base languages: Common, Otter silent. Bonus languages: Amphibian, Reptilian, Burrow.

    Squirrels:

    - Squirrels gain +2 dex, -2 con
    - Small size
    - Base land speed is 30 feet, climb speed 30
    - Squirrels gain +2 on heal checks due to their extensive knowledge of nature
    - Squirrels gain a +8 on climb checks, and can always choose to take 10, even if rushed or threatened.
    - Squirrels gain weapon proficiency with short bows.
    - Base languages: Common. Bonus languages: Avian, Reptilian, Burrow

    Hedgehogs:

    - Hedgehogs gain +2 constitution, -2 dexterity
    - Medium size
    - Base land speed is 20 feet
    - Spines: Any creature attacking a hedgehog with a light melee weapon or an unarmed strike takes 1d4 damage from spikes. A hedgehog may suppress this ability as a move action, and activate it as the same.
    - +2 natural armor bonus
    - Cannot wear normal armor, all armor for hedgehogs must be custom-made, and of at least masterwork quality.
    -Hedgehogs gain Armor Familiarity with Hedgehog Spine Tips
    - Base languages: Common. Bonus languages: Avian, Reptilian, Amphibian, Burrow.

    Badgers:

    - Badgers gain +8 Strength, -4 Dexterity, +6 Constitution, +4 Wisdom, +4 Charisma
    - Large size. -1 penalty to Armor Class, -1 penalty on attack rolls, -4 penalty on Hide checks, +4 bonus on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits double those of Medium characters.
    - Space/reach: 10 feet/10 feet.
    - A badger's base land speed is 30 feet, burrow speed 10 feet
    - Scent, Low-light vision
    - Racial Hit Dice: A badger begins with four levels of badger which provide 4d10 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +4, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +4, Ref +1, and Will +1.
    - Racial Skills: A badger's badger levels give it skill points equal to 7 x (4 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Craft, Intimidate, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival.
    - Racial Feats: A badger's badger levels give it two feats.
    - Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A badger is automatically proficient with simple weapons, and all two-handed martial weapons.
    - +2 natural armor bonus.
    - Natural Weapons: 2 claws (1d8+strength).
    - Automatic languages: Common, Burrow. Bonus languages: Avian, Reptilian, Amphibian.
    - Level adjustment +2

    Shrews:

    - Shrews gain +2 dexterity, -2 strength
    - Small size
    - Base land speed is 20 feet
    - Shrews gain a racial +4 on swim checks.
    - Shrews gain a +2 on all survival checks on rivers or oceans.
    - Base languages: Common. Bonus languages: Amphibian, Avian, Reptilian.

    Moles:

    - Moles gain +2 con, -2 charisma,
    - Small size
    - Base land speed is 30 feet, burrow 30 feet
    - Moles gain a natural claw attack dealing 1d4 piercing or bludgeoning damage.
    - Base languages: Burrow. Bonus languages: Amphibian, Reptilian, Common.
    - Difficult speech: Moles have to spend twice as many skill points as another race to learn a new language. They can spend the normal amount, but take a -4 to charisma-based checks using that language.
    - Darkvision 60 feet
    - +4 to spot and search checks to notice unusual stonecutting.
    - Spell-like abilities: Moles can cast Augury 1/day as a cleric of twice their character level, without the material component or focus. (Moi diggun’ claws be a-tinglin’)

    --------
    Hi! I'm back once more, with my newest Frankenstein-esque creation of numbers and stats. This time, I've turned my sights on the redwall bunch. I'm going to be adding to this, this is just the bare-bones stuff to start with. Once I get your opinions on their fairness and balance, I'll move deeper into fluff and support for these lovable critters.

    A few questions I really need answered:
    Are they balanced?
    Level adjustments?
    Accurately representing the books?
    Are they good enough you'd want to play them?
    Last edited by Admiral Squish; 2008-02-25 at 08:19 PM. Reason: Fixin's.
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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    The first thing that strikes me is that mice are amazingly good - small size AND an int bonus AND bonus feats and skills as a human are very nifty.

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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    Quote Originally Posted by Illiterate Scribe View Post
    The first thing that strikes me is that mice are amazingly good - small size AND an int bonus AND bonus feats and skills as a human are very nifty.
    There, I took away the skills as a human, and just gave them the bonus on knowledge checks. Better?
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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    Hares shouldn't have a Str penalty, they're always portrayed as fairly strong.
    Badgers need a level adjustment, then maybe you can let up on the nerf stick on their stats. Moles and shrews have too many stat adjustments, they suffer from Whisper Gnome syndrome. I don't see why Hedgehogs have a Str bonus. Ditto on what Illiterate Scribe said.

    Excuse my stream of thought.

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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebo_ View Post
    Hares shouldn't have a Str penalty, they're always portrayed as fairly strong.
    Badgers need a level adjustment, then maybe you can let up on the nerf stick on their stats. Moles and shrews have too many stat adjustments, they suffer from Whisper Gnome syndrome. I don't see why Hedgehogs have a Str bonus. Ditto on what Illiterate Scribe said.

    Excuse my stream of thought.
    Appropriately fiddled.
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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    I've always wondered what the difference between stoats, ferrets, and rats were in Redwall. They all seem pretty much the same, with foxes and wildcats and pine martins with slight differences.
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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    Nice so far, but I must say that badgers should be much, much stronger and have a fat level adjustment. Even arranging it so that most marauding vermin do not have class levels, it is still clear that badgers have huge strength and constitution as well as some natural attack stats. Large size alone should be some LA anyway.

    I suggest something more like this:

    Badgers as characters
    [Class-related fluff omitted, since you have not mentioned what sorts of classes you'll have. Presumably something like fighter, which would be the favored class here (or possibly barbarian), and of course a PrC for Badger Lord.]
    --+8 Strength, -4 Dexterity, +6 Constitution, +4 Wisdom, +4 Charisma
    --Large size. -1 penalty to Armor Class, -1 penalty on attack rolls, -4 penalty on Hide checks, +4 bonus on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits double those of Medium characters.
    --Space/reach: 10 feet/10 feet.
    --A badger's base land speed is 30 feet. It also has a burrow speed of 10 feet.
    --Scent, Low-light vision
    --Racial Hit Dice: A badger begins with four levels of [whatever you're calling giant; I think this is appropriate because badgers seem to be different in kind from mice, etc., as well as from hares and such, which might be a version of monstrous humanoid or similar.] which provide 4d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +4, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +4, Ref +1, and Will +1.
    --Racial Skills: A badger's [giant] levels give it skill points equal to [whatever you decide; if you keep it the same it's 7 x (2 + Int modifier)]. Its class skills are Craft, Intimidate, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival.
    --Racial Feats: A badger's [giant] levels give it two feats.
    --Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A badger is automatically proficient with simple weapons.
    --+4 natural armor bonus.
    --Natural Weapons: 2 claws (1d4).
    --Automatic languages: Common, Badger. Bonus languages: Hare, Otter, Hedgehog, Shrew, Mole (nonmole).
    --Level adjustment +4

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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    Two things:

    Are badgers in the book that clumsy? They were big, sure, and they weren't exactly field daisies, but I don't recall them being particularly clumsy either.

    Also, I'm wondering if Otters should have a reduction in Intelligence rather than Wisdom.

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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Scrub View Post
    Nice so far, but I must say that badgers should be much, much stronger and have a fat level adjustment. Even arranging it so that most marauding vermin do not have class levels, it is still clear that badgers have huge strength and constitution as well as some natural attack stats. Large size alone should be some LA anyway.

    I suggest something more like this:
    *snip*
    Taken under advisement. Well, taken under a lot of advisement. Okay, so I copy/pasted and diddled with a few scores... Still, very nice of you to do so. Thanks for your help!
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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    Quote Originally Posted by 13_CBS View Post
    Two things:

    Are badgers in the book that clumsy? They were big, sure, and they weren't exactly field daisies, but I don't recall them being particularly clumsy either.

    Also, I'm wondering if Otters should have a reduction in Intelligence rather than Wisdom.
    Badgers aren't clumsy, but they're BIG. When you have fingers the size of wrists, you start to find fine manipulation is a tad beyond you.

    They're clever, but a bit too playful for their own good. I thought wisdom was a more accurate place to put the penalty.
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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    - Hares should have weapon proficiency in something
    - I agree, Otters should take a penalty to INT not WIS, they usually are very worldly
    - Should squirrels get bow proficiency?
    - I might tone down the badger a little bit more. maybe lay off the charisma to +2, because I cant remember them being all that nice, the old ones could actually be grumy, but otherwise fine.
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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Squish View Post
    Badgers aren't clumsy, but they're BIG. When you have fingers the size of wrists, you start to find fine manipulation is a tad beyond you.

    They're clever, but a bit too playful for their own good. I thought wisdom was a more accurate place to put the penalty.
    On badgers: true, but a -4 to Dex when they're just big and have big paws?

    On otters: that's also true, but IIRC it never got in the way of fighting. As the poster above said, they're quite worldly.

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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    If the badger's ability scores go down any more than they already are, it will not be a +4 mod anymore. It's already on the weak side for an 8-level race. I think the charisma is very appropriate; it's not going to be used on Diplomacy checks for the most part, but on Intimidate checks and Cha-based class features. It's a kind of "mental toughness" thing going on there. I feel quite certain that a racial feat called Bloodwrath will involve a Cha-based check of some kind.

    -4 Dex is a balance thing, and it seems reasonably appropriate to me. Badgers are slow for the most part, relying on power, and while Lonna Bowstripe certainly had a high Dex, he was an exception and clearly had quite a few class levels besides. You can try to nitpick every number in the fluff, but if you take a step back, I think the stats as currently written will create an accurate portrayal of the Redwall badger in gameplay.

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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    I don't know how one would going adding proficiencies racially like that. Especially for things as poorly-placed as bows. They're martial weapons, but you can't just give them martial weapon proficiency, it just doesn't work like that.

    Well, yeah, older and leader otters tend to be worldly, but a penalty to int just doesn't explain how they've come up with all those inventive methods of home defense. Remember, these stats are for otter adults, not otter middle-agers.

    Yes, Badger's aren't very polite, much of the time, but they still have a sort of natural leadership I was hoping to express with the charisma.
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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    Let's see. Well, one minor problem is that there are traits that all races could have, just because they're animals. +1 Natural Armor, Scent, and Low-Light Vision. So you might want to "nerf everything equally" by leaving those traits off unless the animal is better at one of them than all the other animals. The good thing about balancing this setting is going to be that most of the "monsters" will be NPCs.

    I bet you could get away with a Badger being impressive enough without a +4 LA. No RHD needed, either. I think DJ Scrub wasn't thinking enough about the kindly badger mothers, or Sunflash the Mace when he was low-level. Low-level badger characters aren't that amazing in the books. LA +1 or +2 should be plenty. But the Badger should have a (small) LA, or else his racial features just won't be impressive enough. Let's see ... I recommend:
    Badger
    Large Size
    +4 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, +2 Wis
    Speed 30, burrow 10 (you'll have to make sure burrow rules are limited so this isn't overpowered)
    Natural Weapons: Claw/Claw (1d6+Str damage)
    Natural Armor +1
    +2 Craft, +2 Knowledge (History)
    LA +2
    Some of the badger characters obviously have a high Charisma, and it should be a requirement for some of their cool racial feats; but I don't see it as an every-Badger bonus.

    Totally agree that Otters should have their Wis penalty changed to Int. Otters were portrayed (some of them) as fairly crafty Rangers, excellent at Survival (Track)/Spot/Listen. On the other hand, they were about the most anti-book-lore good race. Hares are a much better example of a Wis penalty.

    I don't remember mice being so ... sage-like. Since when are all of them these frail, Knowledgable types? I wonder if, to go with their other human-like traits (and the Bonus Feat is totally appropriate IMHO), they should have no stat adjustments at all. With that caveat, I suppose the +1 Knowledge would be OK (if it's not coupled with a +2 Int).

    Did the books ever portray the common animals actually having racial languages? I guess you could count Mole as a separate language. But other than that, it seemed like most of the animals just had their own dialects, which seem more like flavor than mechanics. Two average Hares couldn't hold a secret conversation in front of an average Mouse just by using their racial slang. The mouse would only be confused by 10% of what they said. It seems like (besides moles) only more barbaric creatures like reptiles, amphibians, or primitive squirrel tribes actually had different languages.

    Squirrels need a bit more buffing; Climb speed isn't everything. Shortbow proficiency would totally be appropriate. (Remember, though, that the Longbow is an exotic weapon in Redwall, rarely heard of except among hares.) I'd think about making their racial penalty Strength instead of Constitution. Heal bonus due to an extensive knowledge of nature makes no sense. Also, I picture them as Small rather than Medium.

    Hedgehogs: As-written, there is no reason for them ever to repress the "Spines" ability. If that ability is meant to represent them curling up in a ball, it should make it so they can't do anything else while using it. Also, if it is always-active, then making it work vs. all melee attacks (not just unarmed & natural weapons) is ridiculous.

    Shrews: if they have a Swim speed, then their Swim bonus should be +8. It's just the way Swim (and Climb) speeds work. You could keep the bonus at +4 and just take away the Swim Speed if you want, though. Also, minor nitpick: they should get the Survival bonus on rivers too.

    Hmmm ... nothing about how Shrews and Hares have to eat way more than the other races of their sizes?

    Moles: Obviously they should be good at digging. But Burrow speeds are very powerful even if they're very small, and a burrow speed faster than normal movement is crazy. Maybe Burrow 20? (Still faster than a badger.)

    Edit: Oh yeah. Like I posted on the d20 Forum:
    This could be helpful.
    Last edited by Draz74; 2008-01-04 at 12:47 AM.
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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    Quote Originally Posted by Draz74 View Post
    Let's see. Well, one minor problem is that there are traits that all races could have, just because they're animals. +1 Natural Armor, Scent, and Low-Light Vision. So you might want to "nerf everything equally" by leaving those traits off unless the animal is better at one of them than all the other animals. The good thing about balancing this setting is going to be that most of the "monsters" will be NPCs.

    I bet you could get away with a Badger being impressive enough without a +4 LA. No RHD needed, either. I think DJ Scrub wasn't thinking enough about the kindly badger mothers, or Sunflash the Mace when he was low-level. Low-level badger characters aren't that amazing in the books. LA +1 or +2 should be plenty. But the Badger should have a (small) LA, or else his racial features just won't be impressive enough. Let's see ... I recommend:

    Some of the badger characters obviously have a high Charisma, and it should be a requirement for some of their cool racial feats; but I don't see it as an every-Badger bonus.

    Totally agree that Otters should have their Wis penalty changed to Int. Otters were portrayed (some of them) as fairly crafty Rangers, excellent at Survival (Track)/Spot/Listen. On the other hand, they were about the most anti-book-lore good race. Hares are a much better example of a Wis penalty.

    I don't remember mice being so ... sage-like. Since when are all of them these frail, Knowledgable types? I wonder if, to go with their other human-like traits (and the Bonus Feat is totally appropriate IMHO), they should have no stat adjustments at all. With that caveat, I suppose the +1 Knowledge would be OK (if it's not coupled with a +2 Int).

    Did the books ever portray the common animals actually having racial languages? I guess you could count Mole as a separate language. But other than that, it seemed like most of the animals just had their own dialects, which seem more like flavor than mechanics. Two average Hares couldn't hold a secret conversation in front of an average Mouse just by using their racial slang. The mouse would only be confused by 10% of what they said. It seems like (besides moles) only more barbaric creatures like reptiles, amphibians, or primitive squirrel tribes actually had different languages.

    Squirrels need a bit more buffing; Climb speed isn't everything. Shortbow proficiency would totally be appropriate. (Remember, though, that the Longbow is an exotic weapon in Redwall, rarely heard of except among hares.) I'd think about making their racial penalty Strength instead of Constitution. Heal bonus due to an extensive knowledge of nature makes no sense. Also, I picture them as Small rather than Medium.

    Hedgehogs: As-written, there is no reason for them ever to repress the "Spines" ability. If that ability is meant to represent them curling up in a ball, it should make it so they can't do anything else while using it. Also, if it is always-active, then making it work vs. all melee attacks (not just unarmed & natural weapons) is ridiculous.

    Shrews: if they have a Swim speed, then their Swim bonus should be +8. It's just the way Swim (and Climb) speeds work. You could keep the bonus at +4 and just take away the Swim Speed if you want, though. Also, minor nitpick: they should get the Survival bonus on rivers too.

    Hmmm ... nothing about how Shrews and Hares have to eat way more than the other races of their sizes?

    Moles: Obviously they should be good at digging. But Burrow speeds are very powerful even if they're very small, and a burrow speed faster than normal movement is crazy. Maybe Burrow 20? (Still faster than a badger.)

    Edit: Oh yeah. Like I posted on the d20 Forum:
    This could be helpful.
    Hmm... You have a point on the badger issue, but I think that's a bit far. Maybe a compromise between the two?

    On mice, I think it's accurate, since basically the only major mouse settlement is a giant library/monastery.

    No, they didn't seem to have different languages but they all hadd different accents, So One would assume they're learning into common and out of another language.

    On squirrels, I'm not sure on the proficiency. the more I think about it, the more I think that it should probably be a class thing. After all, squirrel commoners aren't expert marksmen. Maybe a bonus to ranged attack rolls. Also, look at a squirrel. About as big as, say, your forearm. Now think how big a mouse is. Realistically, mice would be tiny, but that's pushing it.


    The spines ability made sense at the time like this: Spines on a hedgehog are about an inch long. That means that, proportionally, they'd be close enough to prod the hand holding a short sword, or an axe, if it was used in any sort of way that would do more than simply graze the creature. Maybe restrict it to light or one-handed weapons, since they tend to be shorter? The repress ability was designed more towards polite company, when one expects to be hugged or in close proximity to others. Hedgehogs in the book could raise or lower their spines like the heckles on a cat. I do need to make a rolling ability.

    No, shrews tended to be beasts of the seas. The river ones were only when they ran out of ship and down on their luck.

    Definitely gotta fiddle with moles, then...
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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    Wow, noone would ever play a badger... The LA and the racial HD put together are a huge turnoff. Even as is up there, you could probably make it a +2 LA.
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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    Hedgehogs and Squirrels should be small sized...

    Squirrels definitly, as (If the sword of Martin is a small Longsword) It is the correct size for bothe squirrels and Mice, but otters use it as a knife

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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Squish View Post
    Hmm... You have a point on the badger issue, but I think that's a bit far. Maybe a compromise between the two?
    Sure. Personally, I just hate the mechanics of Racial Hit Dice. However, if you don't feel the same way, I think it would be pretty reasonable to use the stats I wrote for Badgers, but give them 4 RHD. Then lower their LA to +1. So the lowest-ECL Badger character would be ECL 5. (Whereas mine was ECL 3, and the other one was ECL 8.) Maybe if you do this, you could give them their +2 Charisma back too.

    On mice, I think it's accurate, since basically the only major mouse settlement is a giant library/monastery.
    Monastery, yes. But, while Redwall had a decent library (a rare thing in this world), that never seemed to be its main focus to me. Marauding would-be conquerers didn't go, "Let's go hit that Redwall place, because I need tons of information from historical documents." They had other reasons.

    On squirrels, I'm not sure on the proficiency. the more I think about it, the more I think that it should probably be a class thing. After all, squirrel commoners aren't expert marksmen. Maybe a bonus to ranged attack rolls.
    Commoner expert marksmen, no. But that's because they have BAB +0 , not because they're nonproficient IMHO. After all, there is a vast gulf between being proficient with a weapon, and being good with a weapon. Still, I guess a bonus to ranged attacks would work OK too. Kinda bland since they already get a Dex bonus, though.

    Also, look at a squirrel. About as big as, say, your forearm. Now think how big a mouse is. Realistically, mice would be tiny, but that's pushing it.
    I don't know what species of squirrel you're looking at, but judging by the ones that infest my hometown in large numbers ... no. If a squirrel is as big as my forearm with its tail included, it's a pretty big squirrel. Without the tail, no chance. (I'm 6'1" - tall, but not some kind of giant.)

    "Realistically," foxes and otters are not much smaller than badgers. All of which are much bigger than hares. Which are much bigger than squirrels. Which are much bigger than mice. So Mice = Tiny, Squirrels = Small, Hares = Medium, Otters = Large, Badgers = Large With Powerful Build would be a valid way to go, based on more realistic sizes.

    Fortunately for those of us who don't want to deal with such a wide variety of PC sizes, though, the books seem to describe these animals' scale in a not-quite-so-realistic way. Where Otters, Foxes, and Hares all seem to be about the same "Medium" size. In this scale, if you're keeping to it, I'd definitely still say Small Squirrels. Oh, and the point from Mathias_Tanavar about how a squirrel used Martin's sword just fine is excellent support for this opinion.

    The spines ability made sense at the time like this: Spines on a hedgehog are about an inch long. That means that, proportionally, they'd be close enough to prod the hand holding a short sword, or an axe, if it was used in any sort of way that would do more than simply graze the creature. Maybe restrict it to light or one-handed weapons, since they tend to be shorter? The repress ability was designed more towards polite company, when one expects to be hugged or in close proximity to others. Hedgehogs in the book could raise or lower their spines like the heckles on a cat. I do need to make a rolling ability.
    Restricted to light weapons works. Rolling up could be a sweet racial feat, I guess.

    No, shrews tended to be beasts of the seas. The river ones were only when they ran out of ship and down on their luck.
    Hmmm, I must have just read the books about river shrews more than the other books. It's been a while.
    Last edited by Draz74; 2008-01-04 at 01:08 PM.
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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    never read redwall myself, so i am not too sure about its fluff, but why is the badger considered a giant?

    aren't they all just large animals? would it not make more sense to keep them as animal type, or even magical animal type for the extra cool stuff?

    i admit i am exposing my ignorance to the redwall theme, but i am curious.

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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    One thing that comes out at me is that all the races have some sort of stat adjustment. I'm not sure this is necessary. It's been a while since I've read the books, but I'm not sure why mice would have an int bonus, or otters would have a wis penalty, for example. But that's just an opinion.

    The languages thing doesn't really make sense to me though. I don't recall the animals using different languages, whether based on species or anything else (although like I said, it has been a while). Even molespeech was just a heavily accented dialect. However, non-mammal creatures did have tendencies not to speak, or have communication problems, so simplifying the languages to something like Common, Avian, Reptillian, and Amphibian makes more sense to me. Since this results in much less languages than normal D&D, it would be better to just scrap bonus languages from intelligence, and just have extra language acquisition come from skill point expenditure. If you want more languages, then I'd do it by location, rather than species, such as subterranian/undercommon, or various far-off lands.

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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    Pretty nice

    A few things though:
    Personal experiences has thought me that mice usually are faster than Hedgehogs. Fact is that mice are speedy buggers, and they jump like the devil!
    So I'd at least reduce the hedgehogs movementspeed, possibly raise the mice movement speed, or give them dash (that's the feat that gives you a +5 bonus to movement, right?) as a bonus feet.

    Also, I'd probably push around that charisma the badger got (switch wisdom's and charisma's places I think. All the badgers seem to be very wise, regardless of age usually).
    Last edited by Learnedguy; 2008-01-04 at 01:37 PM.
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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    Um...no settlement besides Redwall?
    Luke's Caves.
    Noon Vale.
    And there were shrews that lived austensibly on the rivers. Who travelled on logs. Why else would their cheiftans be called logalogs?
    And what about pygmy shrews?
    In the books/tv show, squirrels were the same size as mice and hedgehogs. Hares were larger than all three and the same size as Otters. Cats and Badgers are larger than otters and hares but are of equal size to each other.
    Foxes, stoats, ferrets, weasels, rats, all same size. Rats are pushing it though.
    Stoats, ferrets, weasels= all pretty much weasel like in form. Not sure how they differ otherwise. Think stoats are huskier.
    Lizards range in size. but are mice and hare sized.
    Frogs are mostly hare size.
    Eagles, freaking huge. Speak in Scottish dialect.

    Also, Mice are the humans of the series. nothing really special about them. So I'd take away the int and con adjustments as well as the knowledge thing. The knowledge bonus gone because they still have to go and find the knowledge in the library/from an elder/the abbot/abbess.
    Last edited by Darkkwalker; 2008-01-04 at 01:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    Okay, I fixed the mole burrow speed, twiddled the badger scores, which also got their own kind of racial level, shrunk the squirrels, fixed the spike ability, upped hare's attack and made mice mini-humans. Anything else?
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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    Haha! Eulalia!
    Those books were awesome.

    And a ottrish javelin is a masterwork wooden javelin that you can use in melee with no penalty. At least, that's how I see them.

    You should do the evil animals too. Cats, rats, ferrets...

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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    I would personally give Otters (and possibly Hares) a Strength bonus...they were always portrayed as being much stronger than the rest (though whether that was due to individual characters or not, I'm not entirely sure)...
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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    I like it so far, looking forward to the end result


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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    Quote Originally Posted by Draz74 View Post
    I don't know what species of squirrel you're looking at, but judging by the ones that infest my hometown in large numbers ... no. If a squirrel is as big as my forearm with its tail included, it's a pretty big squirrel. Without the tail, no chance. (I'm 6'1" - tall, but not some kind of giant.)
    Well, you've obviously never been to Texas. My neighborhood is crawling with Fox Squirrels, and those are some big critters. The smaller ones are usualll only as long as your forearm, but the really big ones can be over 2 feet long, before you include the tail. From nose to tail tip, our squirrels average about 2 1/2 feet to 3 feet in length.



    So I'm with Admiral Squish on this point of contention.
    Last edited by FireSpark; 2008-01-04 at 04:23 PM.
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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    You have to remember though. The author lives in Britain. So animals are based upon species indiginous to that region. Mostly.

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    Default Re: Redwaaaall!

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkkwalker View Post
    You have to remember though. The author lives in Britain. So animals are based upon species indiginous to that region. Mostly.
    Actually, I've never heard of the series, books, animated, or otherwise. I was just chiming in that a squirrel as big as your forearm is nothing unusual. But yes, English squirrels are about half the size (at best) of most of their North American counterparts.

    They're still much bigger than mice though.
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