Stat this Dude's Charisma

[Crow]

Hi, I am having trouble trying to determine if the following character would be considered to have a high charisma or a low charisma. This is for one of the players in my game (trying to stat out his fighter).

The character is not a very trusting person, and fairly introverted. He generally does not go out of his way to initiate conversation, but will gladly take part if somebody else engages him first. He is friendly, light-hearted, and does not take himself too seriously once you get to know him, but generally does not walk around with a smile on his face. People just meeting him might call him gloomy, though his friends would say this is not the case.

On the other hand, the character is straight-forward, and can sometimes come off as abrasive due to his honesty. He has the ability to take control of a situation and develop a coherant and strong course of action as the situation warrants. On the occasions where he "takes command", even teammates who do not know him well tend to follow his lead. This is not a "natural" talent, but more one which he has needed to work to develop over time (displaying confidence in command). When faced with a problem, he will try to come up the a direct solution first, before trying to work something more complicated.

I was thinking something like a 12. Great potential to lead, but can come off as gloomy and aloof if you first meet him.

[Hallavast]

Yep. 12 or 13 is supposed to be average for a PC, right? And this guy doesn't seem any more or less charismatic than the average important person in the world. 12 would be a good number to go with.

[Craig1f]

Hi, I am having trouble trying to determine if the following character would be considered to have a high charisma or a low charisma. This is for one of the players in my game (trying to stat out his fighter).

The character is not a very trusting person, and fairly introverted. He generally does not go out of his way to initiate conversation, but will gladly take part if somebody else engages him first. He is friendly, light-hearted, and does not take himself too seriously once you get to know him, but generally does not walk around with a smile on his face. People just meeting him might call him gloomy, though his friends would say this is not the case.

On the other hand, the character is straight-forward, and can sometimes come off as abrasive due to his honesty. He has the ability to take control of a situation and develop a coherant and strong course of action as the situation warrants. On the occasions where he "takes command", even teammates who do not know him well tend to follow his lead. This is not a "natural" talent, but more one which he has needed to work to develop over time (displaying confidence in command). When faced with a problem, he will try to come up the a direct solution first, before trying to work something more complicated.

I was thinking something like a 12. Great potential to lead, but can come off as gloomy and aloof if you first meet him.

Cha between 8 and 10. He's introverted, abrasive, and overly honest. Excessive honesty shows a lack of understanding of how people will respond to what you say. Note, I say "excessive" as in, offering up information you could have easily omitted or sugar coated.

The fact that he makes a good leader, once he can get people to follow him, is more of a learned trait. It could represent a combination of Diplomacy and Intimidation. Good leaders will usually have a high intimidate score, which gives them the appearance of strength, which a leader should have. That will result in people actually listening to him and following him once he's taken command, and prevent subordination, and mitigate his low charisma, especially if it is a military roll of leadership. The fact that he comes up with good solution is a sign of Intelligence, not charisma.

If people naturally gravitate towards him as a leader, then it would be a sign of higher charisma. Since he only does it "when he has to", that does not suggest his charisma is very high, only that people are either intimidated into following him, or follow him when they know he is the most experienced one.

A charismatic leader will be able to make people follow him into a situation that he is not well-suited to lead. It doesn't sound like this guy does that.

I think the average person is more friendly, outgoing, and charismatic than this person. Which is why I'm thinking 8 or 9.

Edit: If you make him physically attractive, I think that would bump it up to a 10. If you make him very attractive, and tall, then it would be a 12.

Based on just his description, and assuming average appearance, I still think 8 or 9, mostly because of what you said about him being an introvert, abrasive, and overly honest. Also, not taking himself too-seriously is a sign of a Beta-male. Take charge people make you feel uncomfortable if you joke about them. Introverted people don't take themselves too seriously because are desperate for people to like them. It's a sign of shyness, and a lack of charisma.

Think about someone you know that you consider very charismatic. No one makes jokes at that person's expense.

[JaxGaret]

That sounds like somewhere between average and high Charisma to me.

If he had a low Charisma, no one would notice that he had a gloomy personality, nor would he be able to lead others.

12 could be just right. The description isn't enough to peg a definite number down.

[MCerberus]

I agree with the 12 assessment. Seems about right for that kind of PC.

[Telonius]

I'd actually take the opposite tack as Craig. He sounds to me like a decently good charisma, but low-Diplomacy character. Kinda gruff, but can get you to do what he wants. I'm thinking Bard the Guardsman from "The Hobbit." I'd give him Charisma of 12, with either the Suspicious character trait (+1 Sense Motive, -1 Diplomacy and Intimidate) or the Abrasive character trait (+1 intimidate, -1 Diplomacy and Bluff).

[Craig1f]

If he had a low Charisma, no one would notice that he had a gloomy personality, nor would he be able to lead others.

That's just an indication that everyone has poor spot scores. Just because someone has low Charisma, doesn't mean you don't notice them.

I'd actually take the opposite tack as Craig. He sounds to me like a decently good charisma, but low-Diplomacy character. Kinda gruff, but can get you to do what he wants. I'm thinking Bard the Guardsman from "The Hobbit." I'd give him Charisma of 12, with either the Suspicious character trait (+1 Sense Motive, -1 Diplomacy and Intimidate) or the Abrasive character trait (+1 intimidate, -1 Diplomacy and Bluff).

I think he definitely ALSO has a poor diplomacy score. But his charisma seems very low to me.

I like your addition of character traits though. And I think that his physical appearance is also a factor.

[MCerberus]

That's just an indication that everyone has poor spot scores. Just because someone has low Charisma, doesn't mean you don't notice them.



I think he definitely ALSO has a poor diplomacy score. But his charisma seems very low to me.

I like your addition of character traits though. And I think that his physical appearance is also a factor.

Well I've always thought of charisma being less bent towards first impressions and more what he can do with his force of personality/will. Sure he isn't anything super-remarkable, but can lead people in a time of need. In the balancing act that, for me, says something around the 12 range.

[Mephisto]

<snip>

I don't think of charisma as how likeable you are, but rather the force of your personality and how assertive you are. A good example of this is Miko: everybody dislikes her, but she has a very forceful personality and believes passionately. She clearly gets use out of her cha-based paladin abilities, so has a positive charisma modifier.

[Ceres]

Just out of interest. This seems like a very natural and realistic description of a person’s personality. Is it really a description your characters personality, or of your own?

Oh, and on topic. This would seem like perhaps 10 charisma, but with some ranks in diplomacy for his leadership qualities. As you said, he had to work on this to develop it (a skill), while charisma is commonly regarded as something a person has, not something he learns.

[Amphimir Míriel]

The description of the guy seems suspiciously vague and reminiscent of Bertram R. Forer's experiments.

But otherwise, I would rate this guy as an average 10-12 CHA

[Tweekinator]

The description of the guy seems suspiciously vague and reminiscent of Bertram R. Forer's experiments.

Yes! I read the OP and immediately thought,"Is this guy playing a stereotypical nerd/gamer/geek/sociopath?". My vote is on yes.

And without taking the attractiveness into account, I'd say give him an 8.

[Draz74]

I'd give him a 10. Positive and negative aspects balance each other out, and potential to be a good leader means he could do well with ranks in social skills (or Leadership feat, or whatever).

[Crow]

Just out of interest. This seems like a very natural and realistic description of a person’s personality. Is it really a description your characters personality, or of your own?

It's a (very) cleaned up version of (a portion of) the bio one of my players sent to me. The character is a human fighter. All he put down in reference to physical attractiveness is that he is;

Not considered to be a beautiful person, but attractive enough to be considered one of the interesting people.

(cleaned up once again) I omitted it becasue I was unsure what it meant. The character is also 6'4" and 244 lbs. So he is tall (to me anyways). Given the range of answers given here so far, I think a 10 may be more appropriate than my original assessment of 12. In case any of you remember my thread a couple months ago about "Matt" being a **** to "Josh" (and a long thread ensued), this is "Matt"s new character (the last one got turned into a vampire).

[Icewalker]

I'd say midrange, which makes me think 14 or so, although my campaign is going to be really high power.

[Tequila Sunrise]

Hi, I am having trouble trying to determine if the following character would be considered to have a high charisma or a low charisma. This is for one of the players in my game (trying to stat out his fighter).

The character is not a very trusting person, and fairly introverted. He generally does not go out of his way to initiate conversation, but will gladly take part if somebody else engages him first. He is friendly, light-hearted, and does not take himself too seriously once you get to know him, but generally does not walk around with a smile on his face. People just meeting him might call him gloomy, though his friends would say this is not the case.

On the other hand, the character is straight-forward, and can sometimes come off as abrasive due to his honesty. He has the ability to take control of a situation and develop a coherant and strong course of action as the situation warrants. On the occasions where he "takes command", even teammates who do not know him well tend to follow his lead. This is not a "natural" talent, but more one which he has needed to work to develop over time (displaying confidence in command). When faced with a problem, he will try to come up the a direct solution first, before trying to work something more complicated.

I was thinking something like a 12. Great potential to lead, but can come off as gloomy and aloof if you first meet him.

I'd say his Cha should be somewhere between...3 and 18. No, seriously, I'm not being snarky. Charisma is such a vague concept (in game and out) that I could argue any score for this character. High because he can take charge of others, low because he's introverted, high because he's lighthearted, low because he's not trusting...I could go on and on.

Honestly I'd just pin this fighter for a low or average score just because apparently you're making this fighter for someone else. I don't know the particulars of why you are, but I'm guessing that if this guy doesn't care enough about his fighter's stats to assign them himself he's not going to give a toasty tiefling about his fighter's charisma score.

[snoopy13a]

.

On the other hand, the character is straight-forward, and can sometimes come off as abrasive due to his honesty. He has the ability to take control of a situation and develop a coherant and strong course of action as the situation warrants. On the occasions where he "takes command", even teammates who do not know him well tend to follow his lead. This is not a "natural" talent, but more one which he has needed to work to develop over time (displaying confidence in command). When faced with a problem, he will try to come up the a direct solution first, before trying to work something more complicated.[/I]

I was thinking something like a 12. Great potential to lead, but can come off as gloomy and aloof if you first meet him.

Since it isn't a natural talent, then it should be skill derived.

How about a charisma of 10 which would be slightly below average (assuming an average score of 10.5). His command skills should probably derive from skill ranks in intimidate instead of natural charisma.

[Brom]

I am very tempted to say a Charisma of 16. Honest. I don't see why someone honest to the point of abrasion would be low Charisma. In fact, I'd say poor Wisdom. If it sounds abrasive, it means that his Wisdom is too low for him to think of that but his Charisma is high enough that the words still sting. In addition, it's a BIG DEAL for someone to order your life in battle. It's a BIG deal. You need to trust in a person who is giving you orders, at a basic level. Alternatively, others could follow him because of his intellect -- ranks in Knowledge (Military) but then that's a homebrew class skill.

I find the stereotype of, "high CHA = attractive/noticable."

And the stereotype of attractive, period -- beauty is attributed to the word when, ''attracted'' is simply a term, at its base, used to describe the fact that people feel compelled to stay in contact and in the presence of a person. A high Charisma person could easily be hidious, ugly, threatening, and totally unnoticable.

My Half-Elf Ajihad, a 2nd level Bard, was very low key. He looked like a rogue of sorts. He wore studded leather, carried a rapier, and had a trio of scrollcases carried in a bandana over his chest. He was very plain, yet he got what he wanted out of people. He knew how to manipulate them, and had a supporting Intelligence & Wisdom of 16. ((He was a VERY high stat character, only lows were STR & CON with a 10 and 12 respectively)). He relied on nuance ((Charisma)) to push a request forward, but his ability to make Knowledge checks on what people were referring to and to call them on false knowledge as well as his ability to sense deceit ((INT & WIS respectively)) to actually find what to say.

He was essentially unworthy of note until he spoke.

[Crow]

Honestly I'd just pin this fighter for a low or average score just because apparently you're making this fighter for someone else. I don't know the particulars of why you are, but I'm guessing that if this guy doesn't care enough about his fighter's stats to assign them himself he's not going to give a toasty tiefling about his fighter's charisma score.

He is having difficulty assigning his stats (32 point buy) and was wondering what sort of charisma score the character sounded like he would have. Since this is the first character that he has made and shown an interest in developing a personality for, I am trying to help him.

The problem I am having is that the description he gave seems like it could be a description that anyone could relate to on some level. Which is why I was asking for help.

[JaxGaret]

He is having difficulty assigning his stats (32 point buy) and was wondering what sort of charisma score the character sounded like he would have. Since this is the first character that he has made and shown an interest in developing a personality for, I am trying to help him.

The problem I am having is that the description he gave seems like it could be a description that anyone could relate to on some level. Which is why I was asking for help.

Ahh. Give him a 10 and max out his ranks in Intimidate.

[Tequila Sunrise]

He is having difficulty assigning his stats (32 point buy) and was wondering what sort of charisma score the character sounded like he would have. Since this is the first character that he has made and shown an interest in developing a personality for, I am trying to help him.

The problem I am having is that the description he gave seems like it could be a description that anyone could relate to on some level. Which is why I was asking for help.

Ah, then I agree with Jax. Cha 10 with Intimidate possibly Diplomacy (honesty is very important with true diplomacy), and maybe Sense Motive just to round things out. This all assumes that this player will dig the 'social combat' deal; he might rather just have Climb, Jump and Swim. Has he said anything regarding skills? Also, are you willing to switch up some class skills for this fighter to fit his personality or will you stick with RAW? (he might get annoyed if you start him with a bunch of cross class skills)

[nerulean]

I'd go with charisma 10 and agree between DM and player which skill is going to be used in the sort of situation where he would come to the fore as a leader, then put ranks in it. Diplomacy or intimidate seems the most likely.

[Crow]

I am going to suggest 10, and to max out ranks in intimidate, as others have suggested.

Thank you all.