Challenge rating

[Lolzords]

I can't, for the life of me, work out what ECL my BBEG wizard needs to be to be challenge rating 5.

It's my first serious campaign, and could someone tell me how to work out what ECL something needs to be for a certain challenge rating?

[Draz74]

For NPCs, ignore Level Adjustment. Completely. If the character in question has no templates and no Racial Hit Dice, and all his levels are in PC classes, then his CR is equal to his Character Level. Human Wizard 5 = CR 5. Hobgoblin Wizard 5 = CR 5.

If he has a template, the template will say how much it adds to the CR. Half-Fiend Hobgoblin Wizard 4 = CR 5. Half-Fiend Hobgoblin Wizard 5 = CR 7.

If he has Racial Hit Dice (RHD), see these rules. Ogre Wizard 4 = CR 5. Ogre Wizard 9 = CR 10.

[Xefas]

Could be many things, really.

A Human Adept 10 (ECL 10), a Human Wizard 5 (ECL 5), and a Celestial Fiendish Vampire Half-Red Dragon Human Sorcerer 1 (ECL 16) are all technically CR 5.

ECL and CR have very little to do with each other.

[Witch]

If you want a CR 5 Wizard, I'd suggest going with a level 7 Wizard. CR of NPCs is overrated by the official rules.

[Lolzords]

I swear I used a challenge rating calculator somewhere, you put in the race and class of the foe and it worked out the CR.

Does anyone know where I could find this calculator, if it even exists?

[Rachel Lorelei]

If you want a CR 5 Wizard, I'd suggest going with a level 7 Wizard. CR of NPCs is overrated by the official rules.

The level 7 wizard opens with Confusion. Half the party, if not three-quarters, fails the save. They start hitting each other, and people wind up dead.

Alternatively, he opens with Greater Invisibility, and killing him just got MUCH harder. Especially if his second spell is Fly. Heck, the fifth-level wizard can open with Fly, then cast nothing but damage, and inflict more than his CR's worth of resource drain.

[Witch]

The level 7 wizard opens with Confusion. Half the party, if not three-quarters, fails the save. They start hitting each other, and people wind up dead.

Alternatively, he opens with Greater Invisibility, and killing him just got MUCH harder. Especially if his second spell is Fly. Heck, the fifth-level wizard can open with Fly, then cast nothing but damage, and inflict more than his CR's worth of resource drain.

And if the wizard loses initiative, the party charges and kills him in a single round.

[tyckspoon]

And if the wizard loses initiative, the party charges and kills him in a single round.

A problem shared just the same by a level 7 wizard. In fact, a problem shared by almost all solo monsters.

[Yeril]

And if the wizard loses initiative, the party charges and kills him in a single round.

Yup, this can always happen.

Like when one of my DM setting us up for a dramatic moment where we had managed to be going up (we were 3 level 8's) against a near epic level rogue in a cut-scene-esque battle.

Lets just say it went..
DM: the but grinning and twirling the golden dagger between her fingers, obvoiusly toying with you-

Wizard; Suggestion
Cleric; Hold Person
Fighter; Coup de grace
Party; NEXT!
DM; o.0

[Felius]

Wizard; Suggestion
Cleric; Hold Person
Fighter; Coup de grace
Party; NEXT!
DM; o.0

Yes, of course. If an NPC is going to toy with a full armed adventure party within arms reach he should pay the price. Don't make your intelligent npcs dumb. Remember: there is no such thing as a fair fight.

[Rachel Lorelei]

And if the wizard loses initiative, the party charges and kills him in a single round.

Unless, of course, the fight is too far away for that to be an option. "50% chance of a couple of people dying" isn't exactly CR-appropriate. What's more, a wizard who's initiating hostilities might be flying or invisible before the fight.

What's more, a level 7 wizard doesn't have enough HP over a level 5 one to prevent him from being splattered if a Fighter and a Barbarian charge him when he's defenseless.