CR question

[shaka gl]

My party is now at lvl 12, although they have magical items WAY over wealth by level standard. They are a Knight, a Cleric of Tyr, a Beguiler and a Duskblade. At what level do you think a CR 20 (a Wizard with some minions) could be viable?

I was thinking maybe 15...

[AslanCross]

The CR system as written is not very reliable, but a 5-over-APL encounter is supposed to be "Overpowering" (ie, "Don't bother, just run"). For 5 players I find that a 5-over is a good enough boss challenge.

The problem is it's a wizard, so it depends a lot on what spells you picked for him. The minions tend to not really matter if they're only summoned creatures (as long as they're not Pit Fiends or Balors or other heavy outsiders), but they can significantly add to the challenge depending on how you set the encounter up.

In general, try to depend on your assessments of the players' abilities more than the CR system.

EDIT: Forgot about the magic items. That really might give them the capability to do it. Remember though, that in general encounters are calibrated to assume the players have better gear for their level anyway. Again it will depend on how well you think the players can use their resources.

[Nebo_]

Not enough information. It really depends on what the PCs can do and what spells you pick for the wizard.

[Logic]

Try an experiment. Take everyone's character sheet after a session (if you don't already) and throw them at the encounter you have planned, and assume every d20 roll is a 10.

Make every character choose the best possible decision, and see what happens.

If the party cannot take this challenge, then wait until the at least the next level to repeat the experiment. This experiment also ignores any critical hits and misses, so the data will be skewed in favor of the wizard, since he is less likely to be making attack rolls.

My general assumption is that a party at level 16 can properly confront a level 20 wizard with decent but not overpowering spells. It would be a good challenge, but I would expect it to be a campaign ender.

[shaka gl]

My general assumption is that a party at level 16 can properly confront a level 20 wizard with decent but not overpowering spells. It would be a good challenge, but I would expect it to be a campaign ender.

It is. They`re now lvl 12 and the fight should be in approximatly 10 sessions (they`re leveling up every 3 or 4 sessions, I keep throwing high CRs at them)

They`ve recently defeated an encounter formed by: Bard/Stormsinger CR 14, 4 elf fighters CR 5 and a Frost Giant CR 9, quite easily...

[sikyon]

It is. They`re now lvl 12 and the fight should be in approximatly 10 sessions (they`re leveling up every 3 or 4 sessions, I keep throwing high CRs at them)

They`ve recently defeated an encounter formed by: Bard/Stormsinger CR 14, 4 elf fighters CR 5 and a Frost Giant CR 9, quite easily...

Make it a blaster wizard, and sure. Make it an optimized batman wizard, and they don't stand a chance at level 20.