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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Duke Malagigi's Avatar

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    Default My personal take on elves.

    Much of the time when talking about D&D elves I've noticed them depicted as hippies or androgynous anorexic-looking snobs (as parodied in the Order of the Stick). They also have a Constitution penalty which runs counter to their very long lifespan. Neither makes any sense to me of course, provoking me to come up with my own slightly Celtic version. Also before making any comments remember this, elves are known for their wisdom, intellect, grace, good health and compassion, not for their sanity. That explains why elves have a philosopher-warrior instead of just a philosopher culture with their Strength penalty. And please, no flaming or insults.

    High Elves

    High elves also known as the misniúil ceirde or courageous artisans or crafters as they call themselves, are the preeminent scholars in both religious and secular affairs among the fey, aside from the goblins of course. They are also known to be artisans and warriors for the other non-goblin fairy races whom the high elves mildly deride for their lack of technical skill or interest as well as lack of inclination to defend themselves. High elves place a strong emphasis on individual freedom. Because of this, any form of magical mind control, such as dominate person, is considered a grave evil and punished harshly under high elven law, frequently resulting in death. Their capitol is the city of Airgidcoill which boasts a population around 700,000 of whom 60% are high elven. The term "elf king" is a misnomer, at least by modern standards due to the elected status of their chief executive. Due to their scientific studies combined with their magical prowess elves have achieved the magical equivalent of an information age. Elves are also highly skilled engineers and architects, but are out classed by both dwarves and gnomes in this department.

    Physical Character
    Build: High elves are lighter of frame and build than most humans of similar height. This goes from 131 lbs. at the lightest to 153 at the heaviest.
    Coloring: Pale skinned to ruddy complexioned typically with pale blue, bright green or gray eyes. Hair coloring varies.
    Endurance: High elves can walk long distances for extended periods of time without rest. When they do rest, they only require three hours per day.
    Height: 6'3" to 6'9". On some occasions even 7 feet tall.
    Lifespan: Unknown, seemingly indefinite. The base starting age for an elf is 26. Elves use the same starting age modifiers halflings do.
    Resistances: +10 to saving throws against all natural diseases and +4 to saving throws against poison. This replaces immunity to sleep.
    Special Abilities: +4 to Intelligence, +2 to Wisdom, +2 to Constitution, +2 to Dexterity and a -2 to Strength. On average high elves are more intelligent, wiser, healthier and more nimble than humans. At the same time elves have less muscular strength than humans do. In spite of their great physical beauty by human standards high elves are neither better nor worse at influencing others than humans are. Instead of the typical weapons proficiencies high elves gain the ability to cast arcane spells equal to a first level wizard. This grants high elves one wizard level for the purposes of spellcasting. They still require spellbooks like any other wizard. They also are expert artists, artisans, and shipbuilders, gaining a +4 bonus to Craft (visual arts; any), as well as a +2 to Craft (pottery, woodwork, metalworking and shipbuilding).

    Culture
    Clothing and Decoration: Typically high elves prefer well made and by human standards, elaborate but lightweight and breathable clothing. Elven clothing varies in form and function. This ranges from simple (by elf standards) knee length smocks and trousers with robe like overcoats for men (think of the Eighth Doctor for reference) and knee to mid calf-length dresses with robe like overcoats for women to more formal and elaborate business and religious attire.
    General Fears and Inabilities: None.
    Marriage Pattern: Monogamous. Political marriages and other marriages of convenience do not exist within mainstream elven society. Such things are considered abominations.
    Religion: Quasi-monotheistic (they worship one supreme god but also venerate what in Dicefreaks terms would be called Cosmic Entities believed to be allied with this being) and somewhat Celtic in nature as well as somewhat informal. Their priests, also known as druids, serve as teachers, moral guides, chancellors and also serve an important ministerial role. Members of the clergy are not required to be celibate and the priesthood is open to both men and women. Within the elven religion priests receive a small payment for their sacerdotal role, which is supplemented by an external source of income. Religious costumes for both sexes are pale-green close fitting robes in the style of a Roman Catholic or Anglican cassock, tailored for the body of the wearer. Another feature of elven priestly costuming is the hooded cloak they always wear, whose coloring reflects the stature of the particular elf in relation to their priesthood. The coloring goes from light green all the way to silver and finally white. The priest or priestess must buy their own religious garments if he or she has the funds. All previously mentioned religious information on the elves also applies to the ogrish race.

    Other Factors
    Demeanor and Alignment: High elves are typically thoughtful and inquisitive. Because or the love of their own freedoms and willingness to defend the freedoms of others they tend to be Chaotic Good.
    Prejudices: High elves view orcs, cave kobolds (standard LE kobolds), and the mist elves (this world's dark elves) in the same light we would view Nazis or Stalinists. Trolls and gnolls are seen as vicious marauders and hags are considered blights upon nature. However this extends to the predominate culture not to individuals. An orc, troll, mist elf or a member of any other race mentioned above can be accepted. Elves of any sort who are in league with troll, orc, hag or similar societies are considered enemies. Good elves of all sorts get along best with ogres seeing them as kindred spirits, albeit, somewhat crude and lumbering ones.
    Languages: Elven (Irish) and Ogrish (Gaelic).
    Bonus Languages: Goblin (English) and Dwarven (German).
    Political System: Constitutional Republic.
    Classes: High elven druids serve as priests and legal aid, while wizards are the scientists of elven-kind. Bards act as chroniclers of ancient wisdom, warriors, spies and political advisers in addition to their role as entertainers. Rangers, scouts, consecrated knights, marshals and barbarians commonly act as military leaders of high elven-kind.
    Suitable Starting Classes: Modified druid, fighter, marshal, consecrated knight, bard (arcane and divine bard), barbarian, rouge, scout, ranger, psion, any primary arcane caster and erudite.
    If using Tome of Battle add Blade Scholar, Crusader, Swordsage and Warblade to the list.
    Favored Class: Druid (modified), Wizard or Blade Scholar if using Tome of Battle. Preferably Necromancer, Conjuror or Abjurer if a wizard.
    Favored Schools: Necromancy, Conjuration and Abjuration.
    Level Adjustment: +2
    Last edited by Duke Malagigi; 2008-01-07 at 03:10 AM.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    Seems a bit more in-line with Tolkien's elves, which definitely deserve an LA. Nicely done, although people who like to play elves (at LA 0) might not love it.

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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by brian c View Post
    Seems a bit more in-line with Tolkien's elves, which definitely deserve an LA. Nicely done, although people who like to play elves (at LA 0) might not love it.
    Thank you. As a few small footnotes, when going battle elven warriors don't wield rapiers. They wield these instead. Elves won't consider someone a true bard unless they can carry a tune, fight valiantly and competently, employ stealth and have a good knowledge of religion, history, political sciences and political and moral philosophy. No exceptions.
    Last edited by Duke Malagigi; 2008-01-05 at 11:47 PM.

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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    These sound more like an LA +2 than +4. A pixie gets greater invisibility and flight, and small size and I think DR. And they're +4. Thri-keen get a bonus feat, 4 arms, and racial bonuses to nearly all stats, and they're +4(I think). Doppelgangers get stat bonuses across the board, and shapechanging abilities. I think they're also +4. The stat bonuses are considerable, but all in all, unless there's something I'm overlooking, this is LA +2.

    I like the flavor on these. If I had people to DM for, I would use these.
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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyMolo View Post
    These sound more like an LA +2 than +4. A pixie gets greater invisibility and flight, and small size and I think DR. And they're +4. Thri-keen get a bonus feat, 4 arms, and racial bonuses to nearly all stats, and they're +4(I think). Doppelgangers get stat bonuses across the board, and shapechanging abilities. I think they're also +4. The stat bonuses are considerable, but all in all, unless there's something I'm overlooking, this is LA +2.

    I like the flavor on these. If I had people to DM for, I would use these.
    I've taken your advice and dropped the LA to +2. As for what I think high elves look like it would depend strongly on sex. In terms of male elves and physical appearance the likes of Heath Ledger, Paul McGann and David Tennant come to mind. Helena Bonham Carter and Roma Downey come to mind as female elves. Either way, they would have beautiful Irish accents and the emotional variance of the 10th Doctor.

    As for female dwarves at their most attractive (this is a bit off topic of course) I would imagine a well muscled, but still feminine, vertically challenged Ingrid Bergman. And yes, I'm under the age of 24 and I still heard of her!

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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    I'd say LA +3. The level of Wizard spellcasting is easily worth LA +1 by itself, and the stat bonuses are nothing to sneeze at either!
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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    I might raise the LA to +3, but I'm not quite sure yet. I'll have to think about it first.

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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draz74 View Post
    The level of Wizard spellcasting is easily worth LA +1 by itself, and the stat bonuses are nothing to sneeze at either!
    I disagree. A level of wizard is much more useful. I'd rather take a full wizard level than take an adjustment just to cast wizard spells.

    Also, does that bonus stack? In other words, if one took a level of wizard as a high elf, would they be casting as a second level wizard? It would kind of make up a bit for the level adjustment.
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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xuincherguixe View Post
    Also, does that bonus stack? In other words, if one took a level of wizard as a high elf, would they be casting as a second level wizard? It would kind of make up a bit for the level adjustment.
    Yes, it would stack. I'm planning on doing some thing like this with goblins and gnomes too.

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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xuincherguixe View Post
    I disagree. A level of wizard is much more useful. I'd rather take a full wizard level than take an adjustment just to cast wizard spells.

    Also, does that bonus stack? In other words, if one took a level of wizard as a high elf, would they be casting as a second level wizard? It would kind of make up a bit for the level adjustment.
    The stacking is exactly why I'm saying the wizard casting is "easily" worth +1 LA, instead of "barely" worth +1 LA. This Elf wouldn't be overpowered with +2 LA, unless it's a Wizard. And wizards don't need the help anyway.

    If the LA is only +2, then an Elven Wizard would only lose one caster level, in return for +4 Int (!), +2 Con (!), and +4 Wis. Not to mention other minor benefits (and the way that +2 Dex helps them much more than -2 Str hurts them).
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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    It doesn't make any sense if it costs a whole level.

    If it's going to cost them, it'd be better to say that this race must take at least one level in wizard.


    Or not have the ability at all. But I think that's kind of what you're suggesting.
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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    ignore this double post
    Last edited by Xuincherguixe; 2008-01-06 at 04:14 PM.
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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    Here's what I'll do, I'll decide whether high elves should be a +2 or +3 LA race by majority vote. Other than LA, how do they look?

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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    Not meaning to violate your "no insults" clause, but I have a bone to pick:

    Why do people always think that elves are in any way like the Irish?

    Yes, they both have cultural backgrounds that include the harp, elven language is based on a celtic language in Tolkien's book (that language is Welsh, thugh, NOT Irish.), and.. well, other than that, I can;t think of anything that leads people to the elven/irish connection you see popping up all the time.

    First, Elves would not like to live in Ireland, i think. Why? Because Ireland is not somemagical land full of majestic forests. It has a lot of rocky hills and green pastures and bogs. Not much forest. Yes, there was once a lot more forest (before the English chopped it down to build fleets and get charcoal), but the main feature of Ireland, as far as landscapes go, really is the peat-bog.

    Irish society has never, at any point in history, resembled Elven society as it is portrayed in most fantasy games. Pre-English, the Gaels of Ireland (yes, they were Celts, but on a related rant, it's annoying that people think "Celt" and go to the Irish, when the Irish are on the fringe of the Celtic world and the Celtic culture is much better represented by the Gaulic or Teutonic celts, before they got invaded and changed), were not like Elves. They lived in a highly fragmented, clan-based society repleat with warring, feuding, and disputes. They had little sense of unity as an Irish people, at least not in the convential sense of nationalism. They had an economy that placed great importance around cattle (I can;t imagine elves herding cattle, for some reason), and often raided eachother for livestock.

    Post-English, the Irish were even less like elves. They were impoverished, opressed people suffering religious and ethnic persecution, suffering under the rule of self-interested landlords. A huge section of them worked as tenant farmers. Most were deprived of any opportunity for education or improvement. They were peasants, and the most wretched of peasants.

    And then, of course, you get the rebellions. I can;t imagine elves rebelling, because I can't imagine elves being subjugated and opressed. Elves have advanced magic and an ancient, highly complicated culture. They don't get opressed. Humas have too much respect (or fear) for them.

    The irish, on the other hand, fought an ongoing struggle punctuated by serious rebellions, most of which ended in horrible failure, often as a result of infighting, betrayal, or simply being outmatched by the British army.

    Ireland does not resemble elves in any way since the beginning of the 20th century, either. There is not and never will be an Elven Republican Army, thank god.

    And yet, the comparison keeps being drawn. We see it here, we see it in Shadowrun (or was it Rifts? whichever one turned ireland into an island of elves, leading to the other irish launching a terrorist campain against them. Think it was Shadowrun.), we see it every time WotC releases elf material with Irish-based material peppered into it (the Cooshee/Cu Sidhe? stupid.)

    So, find a different culture to base elves on. Or, shocking idea, just make a culturefor the elves that isn't based on a pre-existing human culture.

    grrrrrr.


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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renrik View Post
    Not meaning to violate your "no insults" clause, but I have a bone to pick:

    Why do people always think that elves are in any way like the Irish?

    Yes, they both have cultural backgrounds that include the harp, elven language is based on a celtic language in Tolkien's book (that language is Welsh, thugh, NOT Irish.), and.. well, other than that, I can;t think of anything that leads people to the elven/irish connection you see popping up all the time.

    First, Elves would not like to live in Ireland, i think. Why? Because Ireland is not somemagical land full of majestic forests. It has a lot of rocky hills and green pastures and bogs. Not much forest. Yes, there was once a lot more forest (before the English chopped it down to build fleets and get charcoal), but the main feature of Ireland, as far as landscapes go, really is the peat-bog.

    Irish society has never, at any point in history, resembled Elven society as it is portrayed in most fantasy games. Pre-English, the Gaels of Ireland (yes, they were Celts, but on a related rant, it's annoying that people think "Celt" and go to the Irish, when the Irish are on the fringe of the Celtic world and the Celtic culture is much better represented by the Gaulic or Teutonic celts, before they got invaded and changed), were not like Elves. They lived in a highly fragmented, clan-based society repleat with warring, feuding, and disputes. They had little sense of unity as an Irish people, at least not in the convential sense of nationalism. They had an economy that placed great importance around cattle (I can;t imagine elves herding cattle, for some reason), and often raided eachother for livestock.

    Post-English, the Irish were even less like elves. They were impoverished, opressed people suffering religious and ethnic persecution, suffering under the rule of self-interested landlords. A huge section of them worked as tenant farmers. Most were deprived of any opportunity for education or improvement. They were peasants, and the most wretched of peasants.

    And then, of course, you get the rebellions. I can;t imagine elves rebelling, because I can't imagine elves being subjugated and opressed. Elves have advanced magic and an ancient, highly complicated culture. They don't get opressed. Humas have too much respect (or fear) for them.

    The irish, on the other hand, fought an ongoing struggle punctuated by serious rebellions, most of which ended in horrible failure, often as a result of infighting, betrayal, or simply being outmatched by the British army.

    Ireland does not resemble elves in any way since the beginning of the 20th century, either. There is not and never will be an Elven Republican Army, thank god.

    And yet, the comparison keeps being drawn. We see it here, we see it in Shadowrun (or was it Rifts? whichever one turned ireland into an island of elves, leading to the other irish launching a terrorist campain against them. Think it was Shadowrun.), we see it every time WotC releases elf material with Irish-based material peppered into it (the Cooshee/Cu Sidhe? stupid.)

    So, find a different culture to base elves on. Or, shocking idea, just make a culturefor the elves that isn't based on a pre-existing human culture.

    grrrrrr.
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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

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    Rizban: You could be all, "Today's Destruction is brought to you by the color green.... I HATE GREEN!" then fly off mumbling to yourself "Seven... seven bats... mwa ha ha ha..."

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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xuincherguixe View Post
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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    You can delete posts by editing them. There's an option there.

    And Ireland=Elves because the Irish had a really interesting mythology about them, with the Seelie Court and all that. It has nothing to do with Tolkien. What we're doing is taking an elf based on a Tolkien elf and turning into an elf more like the ones in Irish mythology.
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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwyn_ap_Nud View Post
    And Ireland=Elves because the Irish had a really interesting mythology about them, with the Seelie Court and all that. It has nothing to do with Tolkien. What we're doing is taking an elf based on a Tolkien elf and turning into an elf more like the ones in Irish mythology.
    Pretty much, though you certainly wouldn't have anything like the story Deirdre of the Sorrows going on. Any high elven king or similar leader who suggested going to war to take a woman from her loving husband, then force her to marry him, would be shot, stabbed, beaten, punched, kicked in the head and decapitated. Though it may not necessarily be in that order. His own druid advisers would help.

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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    In elven society there are crimes that are simply called an Gráiniúil Bearta or the Hateful Acts. These are crimes that the high elves find so despicable that the only proper penalty they can imagine is death. To be found guilty of a Gráiniúil Bearta, one most perform the act with full knowledge of your action (casting dominate person without realizing what the spell is will result fines paid to the victim) and premeditation. These Hateful Acts are thusly listed.

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    Dominate Person
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    using any potions that create "love": this has caused serious diplomatic problems between elves and other fey


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    murder
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    torture
    treason
    Last edited by Duke Malagigi; 2008-01-10 at 01:35 AM.

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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    so...what about slipping drow poison into someones drink? at least SOME poisons should be under there. not to mention under mundane acts such as murder, rape, etc, etc.
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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Half-blood View Post
    so...what about slipping drow poison into someones drink? at least SOME poisons should be under there. not to mention under mundane acts such as murder, rape, etc, etc.
    I put murder, rape, torture and treason under mundane. Running around and slipping drow sleep poison won't get you executed as long as you don't rape, murder or cause other bodily harm to the victim. You will however, be heavily fined such petty criminality. Under high, gray, wood and snow elven law, all fines are to be paid to the victim and not the government.

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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    Tir Saoise

    Predominate race: high elves (68%)

    Secondary races: Half-elves (12%), human (16%), awakened animals (3%) and non-elven fey (1%).

    Predominate alignment: Chaotic Good (73%)

    Religion: A combination of Celtic religion and angelology. Sacrifices take the form of cattle and other livestock.

    Culture: Celtic but highly advanced. Elves use arcane magic as a form of technology. Elves are also highly religious but not fanatical. These are generalizations of course, individual elves may differ.

    Social roles: In Tir Saoise many legal posts, such as attorneys and judgeships, are filled with druids and bards due to their shared nature as lore masters. While not all judges or lawyers are bards or druids, all bards and druids are trained for such positions. Wizards take the role of scientists and engineers among Tir Saoisean society and are held in the same level of respect and awe as the druids, even though wizards are much more common. In fact, there are cases of great druid-wizards acting as leaders in times of war and peace. As for bards, in addition to acting as performers and attorneys they function as warriors and political aides. Members of martially inclined tend to serve as what non-Tir Saoisean Saoiseans refer to as "kings". In fact the title of king is both non-hereditary and in fact a gender neutral elected office.
    The two main legislative bodies of Tir Saoise are the Bardas or Council and the Teach Daoine, literally meaning the House of the People. In nature these two houses roughly resemble the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives or the British Houses of Lords and Commons respectively. The head of the executive serves a term of four years in office, so they can't cause too much trouble, but can seek reelection an unlimited number of times.
    Tir Saoise's High Court has 14 justices, of who at least three must be either druids or bards.

    Justice system: The main difference Tir Saoise's form of justice and other countries forms of justice involves what constitutes a capitol crime and what punishments a non-capitol crime garner. Fines payable to the victim are used to punish Non-capitol crimes, either in monetary terms, physical goods or service of some sort.

    Name of language: Saoise (SER-sha)

    Real life language equivalent: Irish Gaelic

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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renrik View Post
    Not meaning to violate your "no insults" clause, but I have a bone to pick:

    Why do people always think that elves are in any way like the Irish?

    Yes, they both have cultural backgrounds that include the harp, elven language is based on a celtic language in Tolkien's book (that language is Welsh, thugh, NOT Irish.), and.. well, other than that, I can;t think of anything that leads people to the elven/irish connection you see popping up all the time.

    First, Elves would not like to live in Ireland, i think. Why? Because Ireland is not somemagical land full of majestic forests. It has a lot of rocky hills and green pastures and bogs. Not much forest. Yes, there was once a lot more forest (before the English chopped it down to build fleets and get charcoal), but the main feature of Ireland, as far as landscapes go, really is the peat-bog.

    Irish society has never, at any point in history, resembled Elven society as it is portrayed in most fantasy games. Pre-English, the Gaels of Ireland (yes, they were Celts, but on a related rant, it's annoying that people think "Celt" and go to the Irish, when the Irish are on the fringe of the Celtic world and the Celtic culture is much better represented by the Gaulic or Teutonic celts, before they got invaded and changed), were not like Elves. They lived in a highly fragmented, clan-based society repleat with warring, feuding, and disputes. They had little sense of unity as an Irish people, at least not in the convential sense of nationalism. They had an economy that placed great importance around cattle (I can;t imagine elves herding cattle, for some reason), and often raided eachother for livestock.

    Post-English, the Irish were even less like elves. They were impoverished, opressed people suffering religious and ethnic persecution, suffering under the rule of self-interested landlords. A huge section of them worked as tenant farmers. Most were deprived of any opportunity for education or improvement. They were peasants, and the most wretched of peasants.

    And then, of course, you get the rebellions. I can;t imagine elves rebelling, because I can't imagine elves being subjugated and opressed. Elves have advanced magic and an ancient, highly complicated culture. They don't get opressed. Humas have too much respect (or fear) for them.

    The irish, on the other hand, fought an ongoing struggle punctuated by serious rebellions, most of which ended in horrible failure, often as a result of infighting, betrayal, or simply being outmatched by the British army.

    Ireland does not resemble elves in any way since the beginning of the 20th century, either. There is not and never will be an Elven Republican Army, thank god.

    And yet, the comparison keeps being drawn. We see it here, we see it in Shadowrun (or was it Rifts? whichever one turned ireland into an island of elves, leading to the other irish launching a terrorist campain against them. Think it was Shadowrun.), we see it every time WotC releases elf material with Irish-based material peppered into it (the Cooshee/Cu Sidhe? stupid.)

    So, find a different culture to base elves on. Or, shocking idea, just make a culturefor the elves that isn't based on a pre-existing human culture.

    grrrrrr.
    People make the connection of Elves and the Irish because the Elves resemble the Tuatha De Danaan from Irish Mythology.
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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    On the LA thing, I'd vote +2. Here's why:

    If you think a good wizard is EVER and I do mean EVER going to lose a caster level for stat bonuses, you're sadly mistaken. This means that though the LA is effectively 1 less for a wizard, he still won't take it at +2 or above ever.

    Thus, given that any wizard taking this is harming himself, the value of a wizard level for a fighter or other class should be considered. The conclusion we come to is basically.... not worth it. Color Spray ect.... are not worth an entire level of your prime class, and is thus worth slightly less than 1 level IMO.

    However, at LA +1 it suddenly becomes good for Wizards again (broken good I might add) and thus can't be 1.

    This means that the only balanced option is LA +2.

    Overall, very nice work. I like it alot more than the traditional elves from a flavor standpoint.
    Last edited by aje8; 2009-06-08 at 11:12 PM.

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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    My personal utter distaste at the "elves are better than anything" aside this seems an interesting race, you put a bit of thought into it. Seems a decent +2 LA race to me.

    And as to the Constitution for long life, Constitution has nothing to do with life span, in anything but they're more likely to survive getting smacked around. Elves bodies age slowly but in normal DnD terms they're still squishy.
    Last edited by Dienekes; 2009-06-09 at 01:32 AM.

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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    Who disturbs the tranquility of the grave?

    *points to headstone*

    This thread was buried beneath this sanctified soil almost one and a half year ago. Pracitioners of the dark arts, begone!

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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonfan6490 View Post
    People make the connection of Elves and the Irish because the Elves resemble the Tuatha De Danaan from Irish Mythology.
    This I don't get. Elves and Dwarves are abound in Norse mythology, and somehow they got hijacked into becoming odd versions of Irish and Scots in D&D.
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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    Try my elf varient. It is the standard elf for that setting.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    Ah, thank you very much GreatWyrmGold, you obviously live up to that name with your intelligence and wisdom with that post.
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    Default Re: My personal take on elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renrik View Post
    Not meaning to violate your "no insults" clause, but I have a bone to pick:

    Why do people always think that elves are in any way like the Irish?

    Yes, they both have cultural backgrounds that include the harp, elven language is based on a celtic language in Tolkien's book (that language is Welsh, thugh, NOT Irish.), and.. well, other than that, I can;t think of anything that leads people to the elven/irish connection you see popping up all the time.

    First, Elves would not like to live in Ireland, i think. Why? Because Ireland is not somemagical land full of majestic forests. It has a lot of rocky hills and green pastures and bogs. Not much forest. Yes, there was once a lot more forest (before the English chopped it down to build fleets and get charcoal), but the main feature of Ireland, as far as landscapes go, really is the peat-bog.

    Irish society has never, at any point in history, resembled Elven society as it is portrayed in most fantasy games. Pre-English, the Gaels of Ireland (yes, they were Celts, but on a related rant, it's annoying that people think "Celt" and go to the Irish, when the Irish are on the fringe of the Celtic world and the Celtic culture is much better represented by the Gaulic or Teutonic celts, before they got invaded and changed), were not like Elves. They lived in a highly fragmented, clan-based society repleat with warring, feuding, and disputes. They had little sense of unity as an Irish people, at least not in the convential sense of nationalism. They had an economy that placed great importance around cattle (I can;t imagine elves herding cattle, for some reason), and often raided eachother for livestock.

    Post-English, the Irish were even less like elves. They were impoverished, opressed people suffering religious and ethnic persecution, suffering under the rule of self-interested landlords. A huge section of them worked as tenant farmers. Most were deprived of any opportunity for education or improvement. They were peasants, and the most wretched of peasants.

    And then, of course, you get the rebellions. I can;t imagine elves rebelling, because I can't imagine elves being subjugated and opressed. Elves have advanced magic and an ancient, highly complicated culture. They don't get opressed. Humas have too much respect (or fear) for them.

    The irish, on the other hand, fought an ongoing struggle punctuated by serious rebellions, most of which ended in horrible failure, often as a result of infighting, betrayal, or simply being outmatched by the British army.

    Ireland does not resemble elves in any way since the beginning of the 20th century, either. There is not and never will be an Elven Republican Army, thank god.

    And yet, the comparison keeps being drawn. We see it here, we see it in Shadowrun (or was it Rifts? whichever one turned ireland into an island of elves, leading to the other irish launching a terrorist campain against them. Think it was Shadowrun.), we see it every time WotC releases elf material with Irish-based material peppered into it (the Cooshee/Cu Sidhe? stupid.)

    So, find a different culture to base elves on. Or, shocking idea, just make a culturefor the elves that isn't based on a pre-existing human culture.

    grrrrrr.
    There are two main mythologies elves are drawn from, the aelf from irish mythology who are the weakened descendants of the Tuatha De Danaan, who live either in underground sidhe or in faerie; and the elves from norse mythology who were divided into high/light elves and dark elves. These two elvin races have flown into each other somewhat in the realms of fantasy.

    Although I've never understood why dwarves are branded as scottish as they are only ever found in norse mythology, and why goblins are generally branded as evil when they are neautral but tending towards good in norse mythology.

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    Or are we dancers?
    My signs are vital, my hands are cold,
    And I'm on my knees, begging for the answer,
    Are we human, or are we dancers?

    - Human, The Killers


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