Eldritch Blast and Order of the Bow Initiate

[Soepvork]

I have a simple question:

Can a Warlock/Order of the Bow Initiate use his Ranged Precision ability on his Eldritch Blast (provided he has taken a weapon focus (eldritch blast), next to weapon focus(bow) to meet the prereqs).

Or, maybe more generally spoken: is a weapon-like spell considered a weapon?

More details:

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Order of the Bow Initiate (CW 68-69):
prereqs: Point Blanks Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon focus (any bow)

Ranged Precision: Can be used for a ranged weapon for which he has Weapon Focus.

CArc 71: Eldritch Blast is a weaponlike spell
One can apply features specific for ranged weapon attacks to weaponlike spells (such as the ability to critical, take "weapon" feats, apply precision damage, etc)

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Yes, certainly.

[Soepvork]

Yes, certainly.

Do you happen to have a reference or something?

[icthius]

It says bow specifically, so I'd say probably not. It wouldn't work with thrown weapons so I see no reason for it to work for eldrich blasts.

[Soepvork]

It says bow specifically, so I'd say probably not. It wouldn't work with thrown weapons so I see no reason for it to work for eldrich blasts.

That's exactly the point: It doesn;t say bow specifically, it says "for a ranged weapon you have weapon focus in", which means it would defenitely work for thrown weapons if you take weapon focus in a thrown weapon (after you take weapon focus (any bow) to meet the prereqs of course, but hey, you are allowed to take weapon focus multiple times)

[icthius]

That's exactly the point: It doesn;t say bow specifically, it says "for a ranged weapon you have weapon focus in", which means it would defenitely work for thrown weapons if you take weapon focus in a thrown weapon (after you take weapon focus (any bow) to meet the prereqs of course, but hey, you are allowed to take weapon focus multiple times)

The prereqs are for weapon focus with any bow.

[Soepvork]

But, you can take weapon focus multiple times... As written, it doesn't limit ranged precision to the usage of a bow...

So, one would take the following feats:
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot
Weapon focus (bow)
Weapon focus (EB)

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Do you happen to have a reference or something?

You already provided the relevant quote from Complete Arcane in regard to applying precision based damage.

However, I just looked up the whole description and can see that it takes a standard action to use the ability, which would not allow you to Use your blast it requires its own standard action.

[Soepvork]

You already provided the relevant quote from Complete Arcane in regard to applying precision based damage.

Doh, I didn't think about the fact that "Ranged Precision" actually is precision damage . When I thought about precision damage, I only thought about Sneak Attack, Skirmish and Sudden Strike....

However, I just looked up the whole description and can see that it takes a standard action to use the ability, which would not allow you to Use your blast it requires its own standard action.

Interesting point... than again, shooting a bow also takes a standard action normally, so the analogy might apply, although this one is up to interpretation I guess.

Thank you for your quick responses...

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Interesting point... than again, shooting a bow also takes a standard action normally, so the analogy might apply, although this one is up to interpretation I guess.

That coincidence is not enough I am afraid. As part of the ability you make a single attack, which is not consistent with using a spell like ability.

Thank you for your quick responses...

No problemo.

[Worira]

The attack is explicitly stated as part of the standard action. If it required a standard action just to activate, the ability would be completely unusable. So yes, Eldritch Blast clearly works with Ranged Precision.

EDIT: "One can apply features specific for ranged weapon attacks to weaponlike spells (such as the ability to critical, take "weapon" feats, apply precision damage, etc)"

The ability to "make a single precisely aimed attack with a ranged weapon" would be a feature specific to ranged weapons, and thus applying to Eldritch blasts.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

The attack is explicitly stated as part of the standard action. If it required a standard action just to activate, the ability would be completely unusable. So yes, Eldritch Blast clearly works with Ranged Precision.

My precision was off. It is not the fact that it is a standard action, but that you make a single attack.

Spell-like abilities require a standard action activation, like most spells, and are not made as "single attacks"

[Worira]

Edited in reply to post above. Stop posting so fast!

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Stop posting so fast!

Don't you just love the fact that your edit was made after I had posted.

[Worira]

I'm aware. I started typing it before you posted, though. Because you're posting too fast!

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I'm aware. I started typing it before you posted, though.

I know.

Because you're posting too fast!

I just happens so rarely for me. I had to enjoy the moment.

[Charity]

That eye-ray typing course really paid off then... who'd have thought...
*Wants to work in a cheezy 60's film reference where the chisel jawed hero goes slack jawed as the mousey secretary takes her glasses off and lets down her hair... "but Silvanos you are beautiful..".. but fails*

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

That eye-ray typing course really paid off then... who'd have thought...

Well the main problem was that I kept hitting the Disintegrate key...

As you can see by the abundance of typos in my posts in this thread it needs a LOT of work still.
(I will leave the posts unedited so you all can laugh at me )

*Wants to work in a cheezy 60's film reference where the chisel jawed hero goes slack jawed as the mousey secretary takes her glasses off and lets down her hair... "but Silvanos you are beautiful..".. but fails*

A pity, there might have been popcorn available if you had included a movie.

[Charity]

*Trys to resist posting more off topic gibber... fails*
But think of the casting issues Silvanos.


I would have thought most DM's would allow this in a house rule, even if it isn't unassailable in RAW. If you wanna do it just ask, it's not like a DM can't ban stuff that is RAW permisable.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

*Trys to resist posting more off topic gibber... fails*

Talk about a weak save with a horrendous penalty on top.

But think of the casting issues Silvanos.

Casting is usually not a problem for me. I usually cast in stone.

I would have thought most DM's would allow this in a house rule, even if it isn't unassailable in RAW. If you wanna do it just ask, it's not like a DM can't ban stuff that is RAW permisable.

Don't tell people that. It is supposed to be a secret.



Seriously though, I don't think OotBI is the best fit for a warlock. If you want to focus on precision damage a scout or rogue focus would work better without silly prerequisites and class features that cannot be used (even if you allow ranged precision the other features need some alteration too).

[Soepvork]

Nah, I agree a pure Warlock isn't the best entry for OotB. A friend and me were just fantasizing about all possibilities with the OotB (heck, we don't even know if anyone is going to play one). My point was, for a build that focuses on a single shot per round, you might as well get that shot to hit as often as possible. That being said, being able to attack every shot on touch AC would be nice, and then the idea of sneaking in a level of warlock was born.

[Person_Man]

Nah, I agree a pure Warlock isn't the best entry for OotB. A friend and me were just fantasizing about all possibilities with the OotB (heck, we don't even know if anyone is going to play one). My point was, for a build that focuses on a single shot per round, you might as well get that shot to hit as often as possible. That being said, being able to attack every shot on touch AC would be nice, and then the idea of sneaking in a level of warlock was born.

OotBI is a severely nerfed PrC. If you want a build that focuses on a single shot per round, then Arcane Trickster and/or Spellwarp Sniper is probably your best bet.

Another option is to use a regular Warlock build. With the right PrC and feats, they can actually be somewhat useful now.

[nargbop]

OotBI is very expensive in terms of feats, and your DM probably won't let you use Rapid Shot on your eldritch blast.
Spellwarp Sniper is probably the PrC you want to take. I don't have the book with me, so I can't remember if it's arcane-casters only, or if anybody who can make rays can do it.

[Wooter]

So what will this character look like? will he use his bow sometimes and sometimes times use his eldritch blast? Or will he use the bow as a prop, pretending that he is firing magical arrows?

[Burley]

If the bow is just a prop, why take the PrC at all?
The Warlock I play fires his blast through wooden guns, old-western movie style. Just to make sure nobody could complain about it, I took the somantic casting feat from (somebook I can't 'member).
Stick with the Warlock. It's complicated enough without trying to throw a bunch of feats and abilities that need special house-rules to get working.