Quick Balance Question--

[MisterSaturnine]

As the title:

Would it be balanced to ban a Bard's enchantment spells, and give him some Necromancy spells instead? It would fit a concept of mine to a T. And of course, Diplomacy being replaced by Intimidation as a class skill would certainly not be imbalanced.

[PaladinBoy]

Depends on the specific spells chosen. Off the top of my head, I would say it's probably fine.

[Fiery Diamond]

As long as they were one-for-one swapped, and of the same adjusted level (that is, some of the sor/wiz spells are higher level when cast as bard, and vice versa, so adjust the level as you think it should be) I don't think it's unbalanced. And I DM. Not that that makes me an "expert," but at least I'm experienced.

-Fiery Diamond

[MisterSaturnine]

Wonderful. What says everyone about these changes to the spell list for my bizarre bard? Oh, and not all replacements are Necromancy spells, and not all spells being replaced are from the Enchantment school. Just replaced stuff that didn't fit with stuff that did. Sometimes, more spells are added than removed, sometimes, more are removed than are added.

Spoiler

Show

0-level: Unchanged.
1st level: Charm Person, Cure Light Wounds, and Remove Fear replaced by Chill Touch, Ray of Enfeeblement
2nd level: Calm Emotions, Cure Moderate Wounds, and Heroism replaced by Ghoul Touch, and Inflict Moderate Wounds
3rd level: Charm Monster, Cure Serious Wounds, Good Hope, Daylight, and Remove Curse replaced by Ray of Exhaustion, Vampiric Touch, Bestow Curse and Inflict Serious Wounds
4th level: Cure Critical Wounds and Rainbow Pattern replaced by Inflict Serious Wounds, Enervation and Contagion
5th level: Mass Cure Light Wounds and Greater Heroism replaced by Mass Inflict Light Wounds and Insect Plague
6th level: Unchanged.

Also, all Summon Monster spells replaced with Summon Undead.

EDIT: Just read your post, Fiery Diamond, and I still don't think an uneven number of replacements will be a problem. Mostly because he gets less spells now.

[bugsysservant]

Well, its late, and I've only given it a cursory glance but I'd say it isn't too bad off. For me the loss of many of those spells would hurt more than their new counter parts would: bards shouldn't be dealing damage, so I can't really see myself using inflict spells, but having the ability to cure damage can go a long way. Enervation is a power boost, but by then you've already lost the Charm spells, which, while a bit situational and somewhat dependent on DM, are pretty good. Plus bards lack the metamagic to really wreak havoc with crazy enervations. Also, I would definitely value Greater Heroism more than Insect Swarm. But maybe thats just me.

[-Cor-]

I like it. I have no idea if it's balanced, but just reading it, it actually seems weaker than the original.

Going for some kind of Eligist Dirge-singing Bard or some-such?

[MisterSaturnine]

Well, I'm not replacing spells with equal power value most of the time. Just conceptual value. And to Cor, it's a bard spawned by a discussion on these forums about a violin's bow being used as a weapon and a lot of Tom Waits.

I'd be replacing Bardic Music buffs with Debuffs, and generally just have him be a really scary guy. The weapon idea isn't mine (I don't remember who originally said it), but the idea is that he'd cut people with the bow, but to do that, the bowstring would be adamantine. Of course, to avoid cutting the strings of his violin, they'd have to be adamantine. If both were adamantine, it'd sound pretty crap--without some lubricant for the bow. And he already uses the bow as a slashing weapon, so why not lubricate it with blood? His main perform skill would be violin, but I'd try and get a +2 synergy bonus on Perform (Violin) checks with 5 ranks in Perform (Sing), and have him sing in a Tom Waitsy voice while playing. He'd play really weird songs with this metallic-violin sound, with really disturbing lyrics. Plus, fascinate would finally make sense.

"Ow! Did he just?...what's that he's playing. That's...a very strange sound. It actually hurts my ears a bit. What, wait did he just say? Stirring his brandy with a nail?"

He wouldn't act all "the world is pain" and stuff, despite his dark bent. In fact, he'd constantly be cracking jokes and laughing. He'd just be frighteningly out of his mind (in that restrained, scary way).

[-Cor-]

Well, I like it even more now, but I'm a sucker for a cool back story. :)

I hope your DM lets you go with it.

[MisterSaturnine]

I do, too. Backstory's next. And for my DM to allow it, I'd need a DM in the first place.

[Fiery Diamond]

Yeah, I agree with the other posters that this does seem less powerful, but it fits your conceptual design really well. I actually like this, I may use something similar in my campaign. Great work.

-Fiery Diamond

[MisterSaturnine]

Aw, thanks.

By the way, I'm sorry for all the smilies. I admit that I'm an addict, and that's the first step. Or acceptance is. Whatever.