"Winning" spell combos in core?

[Sir Giacomo]

Hi everyone,

for those who do not know me yet: I am of a rare species of DD players (and occasional DM) who believes that the core game, in particular the classes are roughly balanced over levels 1-20.

It is a time to put that belief to the test...

Normally you'll see me arguing that monk or fighter or whatever non-caster builds are able to compete also at higher levels and that they do not "suck". What would be interesting for me now would be to collect ideas and suggestions where YOU would think there are spells and/or spell combinations that will blow non-casters out of the water without a chance for them to hit back.

Several parameters:
- core only (ah, mentioned that already). So SRD, MM, PHB, DMG only.
- remember that non-caster classes can also get spells via UMD and/or items (less powerful ones, less often, but still they can...)
- For now, levels 1-16 only. This leaves out 9th level spells. This is for two reasons (and, to say it first, not because I think 9th level spells are unbalanced FOR THE CHARACTER LEVELS WHEN THEY ARE AVAILABLE):
1) 9th levels spells SHOULD be the most powerful spells and truly earth-shattering (see wish, miracle). The most powerful ones, though, quite often necessitate DM "fiat" or interpretation leeway which can be quite too lengthy to discuss here (for instance, gate "willing or unwilling" part or shapechange "every form you are FAMILIAR with" part, or time stop the "not affecting anyone" part - which would put into question/forbid callings like gate and summons).
2) most games will happen in levels 1-16, yet most caster uber power believers see them taking off already from level 7 or so

That is about it.

An example for typical alleged "win" combos put forward to convey the idea that non-casters will become unnessary:

"Force cage with cloudkill/solid fog with cloud kill" (including quickened dimensional lock/anchor)

My reality check could then look like:
1) First of all, although these are area spells you need to KNOW roughly where your target is. There are many ways to get concealment apart from invisbility (counterable with see invisiblity)
2) force cage can be brought down with a rod of cancellation (re-usable, since it was not used vs an item). If you choose the small version, the target may put up a long enough soild object as a free action to let the spell fail (there are various ways to do that). Solid fog is more difficult to crack, but also conceals the target from the caster and prevents all targeted spells (and the target can still move 5ft in random direction). Which can be dangerous, depending on what else you can come up with.
3) cloudkill can be easily overcome with poison immunity.

But now...it's your turn. Bring it on!

- Giacomo

[Fenix_of_Doom]

An example for typical alleged "win" combos put forward to convey the idea that non-casters will become unnessary:

"Force cage with cloudkill/solid fog with cloud kill" (including quickened dimensional lock/anchor)

My reality check could then look like:
1) First of all, although these are area spells you need to KNOW roughly where your target is. There are many ways to get concealment apart from invisbility (counterable with see invisiblity)
2) force cage can be brought down with a rod of cancellation (re-usable, since it was not used vs an item). If you choose the small version, the target may put up a long enough soild object as a free action to let the spell fail (there are various ways to do that). Solid fog is more difficult to crack, but also conceals the target from the caster and prevents all targeted spells (and the target can still move 5ft in random direction). Which can be dangerous, depending on what else you can come up with.
3) cloudkill can be easily overcome with poison immunity.

This "win" combo has actually been very thoroughly debunked right here on this forum, I don't know who it was anymore, but you'll probably find out soon enough .

My experience is limited, but at low levels sleep is a definite win spell, as is entangle(less so, but still) and with some more time I can probably find more.

I have a feeling this thread will be fun .

[Counterspin]

Looking for killer spell combos show a fundamental lack of understanding of what the problem with casters is. You don't need to combo solid fog with anything for it to be vastly more powerful than pretty much anything a physical based class will be able to do up to level 20.

[Solo]

SG, so are you still willing to go for Talic's monk balance test? I imagine we can test the balance of core with it.

I am of a rare species of DD players (and occasional DM) who believes that the core game, in particular the classes are roughly balanced over levels 1-20.

Indeed. I know how you feel. I myself am a rare species of college student who believes that the Earth is flat and that all modern physics is wrong when predicting the shape and origins of the Earth.

[Reel On, Love]

Overland Flight + Greater Invisibility. The caster gets this at 9th; he can fly all day long, and scribe scrolls of Greater Invis. This means that in tough encounters, he is flying and invisible--this pretty much amounts to invulnerability at this level (and for some time yet).

(Metamagicked) Enervation + Save-or-Lose: negative levels impose saving throw penalties. Follow an Empowered Enervation up with that Imprisonment and their odds of failing go up a bunch.

Ray of Enfeeblement + Ray of Exhaustion (+ Ray of Exhaustion): multiple penalties that stack. 1d6+6 from Ray of Enfeeblement (Empower it, perhaps?), then hit them with RoE for fatigue for another -2 on a successful save, -6 on a failed one. A third RoE would impose Exhaustion regardless of save (fatigue + fatigue = exhaustion).

Ventriloquism + Silent Image can be worthwhile, I guess.

Web + Summon Swarm is pretty hardcore when it's first availible.


The thing is, most of the powerful spells in core don't require *combos*. You "combo" Glitterdust or Confusion with just standing there. Same with (arcane-reached) Irresistible Dance. Fly doesn't combo so much as it just plain keeps you safe. You don't combo Alter Self, you just enjoy the fat bonuses it grants. And so on.

[Sir Giacomo]

SG, so are you still willing to go for Talic's monk balance test? I imagine we can test the balance of core with it.

Hmmm - I wanted to let Lord Khaine first. Imo he had a good build to show that monks are not useless at high levels.
Whether the balance of core can be shown with 20th level scenarios and builds and in a group with an arcane and divine caster is debatable - but I'm looking forward to see how that thread develops.

@counterspin: this thread is not about class balance - at least not directly so. I intend it to be about deadly spell combinations. Which I guess is interesting by itself.
As it so happens, such combos are also used as typical showcases that non-casters stand no chance, the higher the level.
Of course, even if I can demonstrate that all combos will have quite feasible countertactics, it would not completely disprove that casters could on balance be more powerful. But that is not my point. My point is to show that it is not that easy for casters. That would be a good start.

- Giacomo

[Chronos]

OK, let's look at a combo that a specialist conjurer could pull off at 5th level:

Round 1: Web. If your opponents fail their saves, they can't move. Even if they make their saves, they still probably can't move, and even if they can, it's probably only 5 feet, and as a full-round action. Meanwhile, if you center the web a little in front of them, you also have total cover from them, so they can't do anything to you. Freedom of Movement would save you, but that won't be available to anyone but the travel-domain cleric (considered one of the strongest choices, on an already overpowered class) at level 5.

Round 2: Stinking Cloud, centered at the same spot as the web. The enemies have cover from you, too, so you can't target them directly, but you only need line of effect to the center point of the cloud, which will still affect them. It's going to take them a while to get out of the cloud, which means they need to make a lot of Fort saves or be nauseated (which, combined with the entangling from the Web, means they basically can't do anything). Poison immunity, a Necklace of Adaptation, or really high saves will help, but again, this is level 5.

Round 3: Summon Monster III to send 1d3 lemures into the cloud. Or SM II to send them in one at a time. The Web doesn't affect creatures that enter it after it's cast, and as devils, lemures are immune to poison, so they're not affected by the Stinking Cloud. The lemures then have an easy time killing your poor, near-helpless victims, who probably can't fight back effectively.

[Solo]

Hmmm - I wanted to let Lord Khaine first. Imo he had a good build to show that monks are not useless at high levels.
Whether the balance of core can be shown with 20th level scenarios and builds and in a group with an arcane and divine caster is debatable - but I'm looking forward to see how that thread develops.

We're short on one person to run monster encounters, as you may have guessed from my sig.

And "not useless" doesn't mean the same as "useful", you know.

[Counterspin]

Yes Giacomo, I read your post, and my point is the opposite, and Solid Fog is a perfect example. A fourth level spell, with no saving throw, which has the capacity to disable multiple targets, regardless of their level or hit dice, for multiple rounds. A spell that starts off strong and never gets worse, and which is equally crippling to a 1st level fighter and a 20th level one.

And that's just one spell.

[Solo]

Greater Prying Eyes is a good one.

They see everything!


Forecage is another good one. You lock someone up in a box until you're good and prepared to deal with them.

[KIDS]

Any kind of metamagicked Enervation, or Ray of Enfeeblement+Ray of Exhaustion+Ray of Exhaustion (if they saved). That's just from the top off my head, for a combination far more deadly than most non-core things ever printed...

[Sir Giacomo]

Ah, a first customer in caster disillusionment shop. Ah, I see you are a regular... Come on in!

Overland Flight + Greater Invisibility. The caster gets this at 9th; he can fly all day long, and scribe scrolls of Greater Invis. This means that in tough encounters, he is flying and invisible--this pretty much amounts to invulnerability at this level (and for some time yet).

Non-casters have missile weapons and the listen skill (often as class skill. Note: even when flying, you need to do move silently checks and can only move at one-half speed. And if you cast, you get pinpointed easily). Greater invisibility lasts only rounds/level (opponent could simply hide himself and wait for buff to be over). So the normal invisibility is way preferable for a caster (of course, the pinpointing and missile weapons will still hurt you).

(Metamagicked) Enervation + Save-or-Lose: negative levels impose saving throw penalties. Follow an Empowered Enervation up with that Imprisonment and their odds of failing go up a bunch.

Enervation instead of a truly damaging/impeding spell is normally not a good idea. If you quicken it, though, it can be good - provided you hit the target. If you want to do that in the same round with the save-or-lose spell, you can no longer cast the often required quickend true strike with it.
Actually, this whole combo is not stronger imo than what damage the non-casters can churn out in a round at that level.

Ray of Enfeeblement + Ray of Exhaustion (+ Ray of Exhaustion): multiple penalties that stack. 1d6+6 from Ray of Enfeeblement (Empower it, perhaps?), then hit them with RoE for fatigue for another -2 on a successful save, -6 on a failed one. A third RoE would impose Exhaustion regardless of save (fatigue + fatigue = exhaustion).

Hmm - those are quite good. But exhaustion will not stop a full attack, which even at a massive STR penalty can be quite devasting. And the wizard still needs to get a ALL touch attacks through (not that likely).

Ventriloquism + Silent Image can be worthwhile, I guess.

It is. Illusions are actually quite powerful when used intelligently. However, once your non-caster enemy has spellcraft and hears you cast (which is often the case in combat), they will be near useless.

Web + Summon Swarm is pretty hardcore when it's first availible.

Hmm. No. It's not.
Web is a highly useful spell. But using the 2nd FULL round to summon swarm? I dunno...
1) is it even possible to summon creatures into the same space as characters? Or into a something solid like a web (it provides cover!)? Likely not. Did not find anything spc for swarms here that overrides the summon rules. If not, the swarm has to make a save vs the web or be frozen in the square where it was summoned to
2) Even if the swarm would be able to attack in round 2, those caught in the web may simply light it, get rid of the web and the swarms thus in 1 round (at only 2d4 damage, not much from 2 2nd level spells in 2 rounds).

The thing is, most of the powerful spells in core don't require *combos*. You "combo" Glitterdust or Confusion with just standing there.

Both necessitating saves. And even if successful only giving a big advantage, not a win. That is hardly "winning" as in "likely to win".

Same with (arcane-reached) Irresistible Dance.

Now that is quite powerful - but at that level (15+), you can have plenty of counters ready for that as a non-caster (freedom of movement, for instance).

Fly doesn't combo so much as it just plain keeps you safe.

Not from missiles, as shown above. And the higher the level is, the more likely non-casters have regular access to flying as well.

You don't combo Alter Self, you just enjoy the fat bonuses it grants. And so on.

Fat bonuses? Well, you gain some stuff (like nat. AC), but you lose ALL your own racial abilities (human: bonus feat and skill ranks), and you only gain the STR, DEX and phyical qualities, but not special qualities. Plus you look like a troglodyte or whatever.
Overall, it's an OK spell for the wizard (good also for remaining icognito, more believable than disguise self due to the alteration/feel part). But not without disadvatanges, or not better than wearing a masterwork armour also providing AC bonus (available at that level).

And so on.

Looking forward to it!

- Giacomo

[Solo]

Fat bonuses? Well, you gain some stuff (like nat. AC), but you lose ALL your own racial abilities (human: bonus feat and skill ranks), and you only gain the STR, DEX and phyical qualities, but not special qualities. Plus you look like a troglodyte or whatever.
Overall, it's an OK spell for the wizard (good also for remaining icognito, more believable than disguise self due to the alteration/feel part). But not without disadvatanges, or not better than wearing a masterwork armour also providing AC bonus (available at that level).

Hmmmm.....

You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form. The new form must be within one size category of your normal size. The maximum HD of an assumed form is equal to your caster level, to a maximum of 5 HD at 5th level. You can change into a member of your own kind or even into yourself.

You retain your own ability scores. Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same. You retain all supernatural and spell-like special attacks and qualities of your normal form, except for those requiring a body part that the new form does not have (such as a mouth for a breath weapon or eyes for a gaze attack).

You keep all extraordinary special attacks and qualities derived from class levels, but you lose any from your normal form that are not derived from class levels.

If the new form is capable of speech, you can communicate normally. You retain any spellcasting ability you had in your original form, but the new form must be able to speak intelligibly (that is, speak a language) to use verbal components and must have limbs capable of fine manipulation to use somatic or material components.

You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, and so on), racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth). A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal.

You do not gain any extraordinary special attacks or special qualities not noted above under physical qualities, such as darkvision, low-light vision, blindsense, blindsight, fast healing, regeneration, scent, and so forth.

You do not gain any supernatural special attacks, special qualities, or spell-like abilities of the new form. Your creature type and subtype (if any) remain the same regardless of your new form. You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype.

You can freely designate the new form’s minor physical qualities (such as hair color, hair texture, and skin color) within the normal ranges for a creature of that kind. The new form’s significant physical qualities (such as height, weight, and gender) are also under your control, but they must fall within the norms for the new form’s kind. You are effectively disguised as an average member of the new form’s race. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on your Disguise check.

When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When you revert to your true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on your body they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items you wore in the assumed form and can’t wear in your normal form fall off and land at your feet; any that you could wear in either form or carry in a body part common to both forms at the time of reversion are still held in the same way. Any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its true form.

Where are you getting

but you lose ALL your own racial abilities (human: bonus feat and skill ranks), and you only gain the STR, DEX and phyical qualities, but not special qualities. Plus you look like a troglodyte or whatever.

from? Please highlight the relevant portions of the "Alter Self"' spell description so that I may be enlightened.

[Sir Giacomo]

@Solo: have volunteered now for running creatures- hope it's not tool late...
Got alter self too powerful in my memory- you do not get the STR and DEX stuff, yet, that will happen at the polymorph level. Thanks, Solo.

@Chronos: web, stinking cloud and summon monsters I-III. I do not think that will work well, for similar reasons I already outlined commenting on Reel on, Love's idea.
But web is a good defensive spell, I'd say, buying around 1-2 rounds time which can be vital for survival (but not necessarily winning).

@counterspin: what makes you think solid fog is equally powerful at 7th level as at 20th level (when everyone can/will teleport etc.?).
Even so, similar to web, it buys you time, not more. Powerful, but no win. The problem is that all your attacks on the non-caster also have now to overcome concealment, cover etc.

- Giacomo

[ZeroNumerous]

Eschew Materials + Major Creation. See Solo's signature for why.

Symbol of Insanity. It needs no other spell to be broken.

Polar Ray Energy-subbed to sonic and maximized from Rod + Power Word Stun quickened from Rod. Nothing has sonic protection, and Polar Ray does CL/d6 up to 25. Grand total of 160 sonic damage. Power Word Stun auto-stuns anything under 150 HP. Kill at leisure.

Create Greater Undead: Wraith. Create it inside a village and it murders all the villagers. Each death means 1 more wraith under your control.

Flesh to Stone + Stone Shape + Stone to Flesh. This one is more for fun than anything else. Sculpt extra arms for the party fighter.

[Armar]

Ah, a first customer in caster disillusionment shop. Ah, I see you are a regular... Come on in!

Non-casters have missile weapons and the listen skill (often as class skill. Note: even when flying, you need to do move silently checks and can only move at one-half speed. And if you cast, you get pinpointed easily). Greater invisibility lasts only rounds/level (opponent could simply hide himself and wait for buff to be over). So the normal invisibility is way preferable for a caster (of course, the pinpointing and missile weapons will still hurt you).

- Giacomo

I hope you remember that pinpointing someone with Listen only succeeds if you beat the DC by 20 or more, and you also get -1 penalty for every 10 feet you're from the source of the sound. Add in a -5 penalty from being distracted if you're fighting the wizard's summons. So with the wizard flying 100 feet above you, while invisible is has already a functional -30 to -35 penalty to your listen check. Since hearing somebody talk is a DC 0 task, you need to have at least +10 in Listen to get even a 5% opportunity; and that only if you are not distracted.

[Hyfigh]

Mage's Disjunction will pretty much put the kybosh on any 20th level non-caster. They will be relying on items for the effects and spells they will need to be able to handle themselves appropriately. Likely, any combo already mentioned will be plenty effective after disjunction is cast.

[Solo]

Flesh to Stone + Stone Shape + Stone to Flesh. This one is more for fun than anything else. Sculpt extra arms for the party fighter.

I do not think that combo works.... you wouldn't give him functional arms, at the least.

Magical cosmetic surgery is not for amateur.

[Counterspin]

The whole game is time. If you're encountering two guys that is a reasonable CR for you team, and the wizard removes one from combat for two rounds with solid fog, he's pretty much single handedly changed the fight from serious to trivial. Actions are the real currency of D&D, and anyone who so blithely ignores that fact is building his conclusions on the sand.

[ZeroNumerous]

Note: even when flying, you need to do move silently checks and can only move at one-half speed.

First of all, no you don't. There is no possible way for you to make noise.

Second of all, how do you get "pinpointed" when a web bursts into existence around you? How do you get "pinpointed" when a demon suddenly bursts from the ground and tears into your face?

Enervation instead of a truly damaging/impeding spell is normally not a good idea. If you quicken it, though, it can be good - provided you hit the target. If you want to do that in the same round with the save-or-lose spell, you can no longer cast the often required quickend true strike with it.
Actually, this whole combo is not stronger imo than what damage the non-casters can churn out in a round at that level.

.. Uh, what? Ok, lets go with the most powerful possible touch-AC for 16th level.. 26/26/26 Wis/Dex/Int Monk 8/Duelist 8 with a ring of Deflection. That's a 29. Cute, but ultimately useless since it poses no threat to our Greater Invisible/Flying Wizard.

A much more realistic AC is the Full Plate Fighter. With his amazing 12 Dex and his Ring of Deflection +5, his Touch AC is 16. Our Elf Wizard crafts all his items, so he can afford Gloves of Dexterity +6. A base 14 DEX gives us 22 DEX. +8 from the Wizard's BAB gives us a +14 to hit with our Enervation. You fail only on a nat-1.

Hmm - those are quite good. But exhaustion will not stop a full attack, which even at a massive STR penalty can be quite devasting. And the wizard still needs to get a ALL touch attacks through (not that likely).

Uh. Try -18 Strength. Anyone but a Fighter/Barbarian is completely unable to move. The Fighter/Barbarian is down by 18 Strength and no doubt completely burdened down by his armor alone. He's a sitting duck.

It is. Illusions are actually quite powerful when used intelligently. However, once your non-caster enemy has spellcraft and hears you cast (which is often the case in combat), they will be near useless.

So Schrödinger's Non-Caster has spellcraft now?

Both necessitating saves. And even if successful only giving a big advantage, not a win. That is hardly "winning" as in "likely to win".

Blindness means total concealment. Confusion has a 80% chance of doing jack.

Now that is quite powerful - but at that level (15+), you can have plenty of counters ready for that as a non-caster (freedom of movement, for instance).

Uh.. No. You don't get freedom of movement for Otto's Irresistable Dance. You just save-or-lose.

Not from missiles, as shown above. And the higher the level is, the more likely non-casters have regular access to flying as well.

Again with Schrödinger's Non-Caster. Not everyone has UMD.

[Hyfigh]

I hope you remember that pinpointing someone with Listen only succeeds if you beat the DC by 20 or more, and you also get -1 penalty for every 10 feet you're from the source of the sound. Add in a -5 penalty from being distracted if you're fighting the wizard's summons. So with the wizard flying 100 feet above you, while invisible is has already a functional -30 to -35 penalty to your listen check. Since hearing somebody talk is a DC 0 task, you need to have at least +10 in Listen to get even a 5% opportunity; and that only if you are not distracted.

Agreed. Also, not all spells require somatic components. Notwithstanding silent spells...

[Fenix_of_Doom]

Non-casters have missile weapons and the listen skill (often as class skill. Note: even when flying, you need to do move silently checks and can only move at one-half speed. And if you cast, you get pinpointed easily). Greater invisibility lasts only rounds/level (opponent could simply hide himself and wait for buff to be over). So the normal invisibility is way preferable for a caster (of course, the pinpointing and missile weapons will still hurt you).

Listen DC increases +1 per 10 feet and gets another +5 because in combat you (might, not sure actually ) counts as distracted and then another +20! to pinpoint, even if you move at full speed(-5)the check won't actually be that easy to make.
Also not all opponents have ranged weapons, not all warriors have listen class skill(fighters don't have it). Even if they hear you, then your still invisible so they still have a good chance of missing, making you an unfavourable target.
But your right, you'd need wind wall and shield to be completely invulnerable.

[spotmarkedx]

Non-casters have missile weapons and the listen skill (often as class skill. Note: even when flying, you need to do move silently checks and can only move at one-half speed. And if you cast, you get pinpointed easily). Greater invisibility lasts only rounds/level (opponent could simply hide himself and wait for buff to be over). So the normal invisibility is way preferable for a caster (of course, the pinpointing and missile weapons will still hurt you).

First, many human types have missile weapons, but few monsters do. Even against humanoid opponents, most martial types are primarily melee opponents, not missile. I guess we are also assuming that the wizard has no friends that are in melee range while this happens.

But lets take a look at a few assumptions. Lets say I'm a wizard with greater invis + overland flight. Its my turn. I cast a spell, then move up to 20 feet. If the enemy heard me speak, then they shoot the wrong square, 0% chance to hit. If they want to hear where I move: Assume die roll of a 10 for my MS. DC modifiers to my advantage: +1/10 feet of distance, +1 for each bonus to dex (often a little better than average), +1 for each 10 feet of distance, +5 for "distracted", which is likely if there is a battle, +x for circumstances because I am not making footfalls (though my clothing and pouches and charms can move, so I don't assume perfect stealth). At long range (400'+) you need epic levels of listen to hear me (DC 50 just from take 10 and distance). At medium range (100'), I'm a midlevel rogue (DC likely around high 20's after all considerations). At short range (30'), I'm just hard for, say, fighters, or other classes that havent focused on listen (DC around20)

So, anyone that is focused on listen and has a missile weapon has a chance to hear where I am, yes. As long as I'm close in. And haven't cast, say, protection from arrows.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Hmm. No. It's not.
Web is a highly useful spell. But using the 2nd FULL round to summon swarm? I dunno...
1) is it even possible to summon creatures into the same space as characters?

Yes, that is the whole point of Swarms.

(You may summon the swarm so that it shares the area of other creatures.)

Or into a something solid like a web (it provides cover!)? Likely not. Did not find anything spc for swarms here that overrides the summon rules. If not, the swarm has to make a save vs the web or be frozen in the square where it was summoned to

Only total cover blocks line of effect.

[Spiryt]

Non-casters have missile weapons and the listen skill (often as class skill. Note: even when flying, you need to do move silently checks and can only move at one-half speed. And if you cast, you get pinpointed easily). Greater invisibility lasts only rounds/level (opponent could simply hide himself and wait for buff to be over). So the normal invisibility is way preferable for a caster (of course, the pinpointing and missile weapons will still hurt you).

May I ask where you get this from? I can't find it in Core, although of course I probably don't search hard enough.

Anyway, Armar's point still stands.
Even if listen check allows to know where Wizard is, this check is still near impossible one.

And even if it succed, Wizard still have total concealment (50% miss chance).

[Douglas]

Blasphemy + an evil friend or any other means of dealing significant damage that doesn't require your standard action. Against an equal level opponent, this is an automatic no-save 1 round daze. If your opponent has not prepared specifically for this spell, he cannot strike back for a number of rounds equal to your number of 7th level or higher spell slots. If you happen to have an Orange Prism Ioun Stone, a Strand of Prayer Beads (for the Bead of Karma), or Hierophant levels with the Spell Power ability it gets worse. Especially if you have all 3. This can be defeated, but only by gaining immunity to it in advance, and if that immunity is negated you will never get the chance to get it back.

[Miles Invictus]

Normally you'll see me arguing that monk or fighter or whatever non-caster builds are able to compete also at higher levels and that they do not "suck".

Let's go over this again:

A high-level (say...16th level) spellcaster can paralyze enemies (Hold Person, Mass), savelessly render them immobile (Irresistable Dance), savelessly sleep/stun/confuse them (Scintillating Pattern), and so on. He can do this multiple times per day. Each spell affects multiple targets and can be done from a distance.

What does the Monk get at level 16? Well, his unarmed attacks can finally penetrate DR/Adamantine, and his feather-fall-like class feature improves a bit. Granted, it's still not as good as the actual feather fall, a 1st-level spell, but it improves a little. Here's hoping your campaign takes place in AntimagicCliffTown, AdamantineLand.

What does the Fighter get? He gets a bonus feat. If he planned his character from 1st level, has access to all the splatbooks, and used one of the builds vetted by the optimization community, he might be getting something useful. Or maybe he's restricted to Core or he just didn't plan his character out, and he's picking up Mobility instead.

To summarize: The Fighter and Monk get moderate improvements to their class features. The Wizard gets more "Make anyone my bitch." These are not equal. These are not balanced. You do not get the moral high ground for claiming that they are.

You want to support the Fighter and Monk? Get your head out of the sand, admit that they are underpowered, and join the chorus that's clamoring for them to be given their due.

[Sir Giacomo]

First of all, no you don't. There is no possible way for you to make noise.

Oh yes. There is. Your equipment rattling around you when you fly. Nowhere in the fly spell does it say "and you make no sound while moving". Move silently likewise refers to "moving", not just walking around. It's much less common, but it applies to all forms of movement.

Second of all, how do you get "pinpointed" when a web bursts into existence around you? How do you get "pinpointed" when a demon suddenly bursts from the ground and tears into your face?

Again, there is no "bursting out of the ground" or "bursting into existence" if you wish for any particular sound effects. That is entirely fluff and up to the DM. You can still pinpoint.
Here@Armar: DC 0+20=20 is all you have for pinpointing someone with listen, plus distance. Assuming that at the outset of combat with summoned creatures a casters is 100ft AVOVE the combat and a non-caster not trying to overcome the summoned creatures somehow is not realistic (and btw you get to pinpoint as a FREE ACTION, so the non-caster can do stuff against the summoned creatures or go after caster, or conceal himself etc.).

.. Uh, what? Ok, lets go with the most powerful possible touch-AC for 16th level.. 26/26/26 Wis/Dex/Int Monk 8/Duelist 8 with a ring of Deflection. That's a 29. Cute, but ultimately useless since it poses no threat to our Greater Invisible/Flying Wizard.

You forget the many dodge AC to touch AC. Expertise, and fighting defensively with tumble adds another +8, for instance. And you got the math wrong. A wonder monk/duelist of your example would have a touch AC of 39, 47 with my dodge bonuses (48 with dodge feat even). And you can even add 5 more from defense enchantment weapons (unnamed), +1 (insight from a ioun stone), and the usual +4 monk AC from his class ability with monk's belt) and possibly even more- which I cannot come up with right now. Try hitting that with a true strike even...
But the easiest thing, of course, at that levels is a ring of blinking and other forms of concealment, reducing rays to 50% hitting chance (no longer a "win") and targeted spells near-useless (50% vs blink, no use vs total concealment).

A much more realistic AC is the Full Plate Fighter. With his amazing 12 Dex and his Ring of Deflection +5, his Touch AC is 16. Our Elf Wizard crafts all his items, so he can afford Gloves of Dexterity +6. A base 14 DEX gives us 22 DEX. +8 from the Wizard's BAB gives us a +14 to hit with our Enervation. You fail only on a nat-1.

If you overcome the concealment or blinking or other defensive effect someone with heavy armour will have up at that high levels.

Uh. Try -18 Strength. Anyone but a Fighter/Barbarian is completely unable to move. The Fighter/Barbarian is down by 18 Strength and no doubt completely burdened down by his armor alone. He's a sitting duck.

Yes. But it takes several attacks to make that happen. Rounds, during which that character can act.

So Schrödinger's Non-Caster has spellcraft now?

Similar to the Schrödinger wizards who all have the right spells learned for a combat. But seriously, in a campaign like the DD envisioned in the core rules where magic is so commonplace, you HAVE to have some access/knowledge of spells or some really great fighting style to survive at high levels.

Blindness means total concealment. Confusion has a 80% chance of doing jack.

Total concealment can be partly overcome with blind-fighting feat. And you can put up your own concealment (eversmoking bottle or horn of fog?) to level the playing field. Now confusion is a real problem when you fail the save, but as you said, not a 100% win (as opposed to true save-or-dies).

Uh.. No. You don't get freedom of movement for Otto's Irresistable Dance. You just save-or-lose.

Ah, you're right. And it's even no-save and lose
However, just get a mind blank against it. Or at those levels try to keep out of close range of casters - if you cannot get to melee them on your turn.

Again with Schrödinger's Non-Caster. Not everyone has UMD.

No, not everyone (probably less than spellcraft). But other even non-UMD items will go some way to help.

- Giacomo

[Sir Giacomo]

The whole game is time. If you're encountering two guys that is a reasonable CR for you team, and the wizard removes one from combat for two rounds with solid fog, he's pretty much single handedly changed the fight from serious to trivial. Actions are the real currency of D&D, and anyone who so blithely ignores that fact is building his conclusions on the sand.

You do realise that non-casters can also take out one of the two guys in the round that it takes to cast the solid fog?
And normally, since many of their abilities are permanent, they do not need additional actions to trigger stunning fist, sneak attack, or 50 damage (with massive shock save).
Do not get me wrong: solid fog is good, a great battlefield control spell. But it is no "win".

- Giacomo

[Sir Giacomo]

May I ask where you get this from? I can't find it in Core, although of course I probably don't search hard enough.

Anyway, Armar's point still stands.
Even if listen check allows to know where Wizard is, this check is still near impossible one.

And even if it succed, Wizard still have total concealment (50% miss chance).

- show me in the rules where flying will make you completely silent.
- the listen check is tough, but not "impossible". If you cannot hear the spellcasting enemy who created some magical effects around you, you need to "retreat and regroup", i.e. put up concealment of your own. Last time I checked, the wizard did not have listen as a class skill (although see invisibiltiy at 120ft range helps - but needs to be cast, and can thus be again heard).
- total concealment means just that: 50% miss chance. AGainst multiple missile attacks or blind-fighting melee, that is quite dangerous for the d4 wizard.

- Giacomo