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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    F.H. Zebedee's Avatar

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    wink Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    This was mentioned in the "Wizard in the Cold" thread, so I decided to put one up. There's two lists here:
    Things a Commoner can't survive, that any normal person should.
    and
    Things a Commoner can survive a majority of the time, though it should kill them.

    List 1: Things Not to Have in a Commoner Safe House:
    -Saunas. They die of heat within minutes.
    -Cats. Housecats can tear a commoner to pieces.

    List 2: "I'm still okay!"
    -Rattlesnakes: Apparently only deal a small ammount of Con damage.

    I'll go research a few more and add them tomorrow/Saturday.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    For the venom, your HP goes down when your Con does. I think it can drop a commoner's Con Mod enough to kill them if they fail even one of the saves.
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    Nebo_'s Avatar

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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    Negative Con can't reduce your HP to less than one per HD. The bite damage could still kill them, though.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    If they fail the first save, their con gets dropped enough so that the bite damage gets them bleeding out.

    1 point of Con damage puts a 10 CON commoner down to a -1 modifier, which drops the average HP of 2 to 1. The one damage from the bite drops them to 0. Most people panic when they get bitten, thus taking an action to either run or to freak out. This causes them to drop to -1 and start bleeding out.

    Still, it is the bite that is dropping them, not the venom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Terraneaux View Post
    Adventurers. Murderous hobos with near-deific power who are both merciless and incredibly competent at personal combat.
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    Talic's Avatar

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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    List 1:

    Ladders. The average 10 foot fall will kill a commoner 2 times out of 3. 5 out of 6 if they panic when staggered.
    Last edited by Talic; 2008-01-25 at 02:56 AM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    Don't Have:

    As a commoner, make sure to never have anything in your house that could be of any value to anybody. This especially includes anything that could be used as any kind of slave, such as a wife, children, or yourself (become permanently incorporeal if at all possible). You will undoubtedly be murdered and have your village burned down if you have any of these, because if you aren't slaughtered and pillaged then the PC's never come to avenge your insignificant life, in which case you don't even get to exist.

    Note that this is a Catch-22.


    Also, avoid any and all ledges or drops of a height approaching or exceeding ten feet. This includes two-story buildings, wells, ladders, roofs, trees, and particularly large rocks. Falling from anything taller than a foot stool will almost certainly leave you bleeding to death. Rather than being an innocent game for burly farm boys, "Chicken" is in fact a blood sport better fitted for the Flavian Amphitheater. If you play chicken, you will get pregnant and die.

    In addition, trees are incredibly difficult to climb. Combined with the near-guaranteed lethality of any fall, they're the Commoner's equivalent of the Tomb of Horrors. Children are protected by their immaterial nature before reaching majority, and it is suggested that the high rate of mortality among teenagers is due to continuing with their now-lethal childhood antics. It is recommended that you cut down all trees in your area as a service to the community. Exercise extreme caution while doing this, as even the slightest workplace injury will likely be fatal.

    Avoid low doorways and ceilings wherever possible, as your incredibly frail nature means a moment's inattentiveness while walking could be the end of your insignificant life, and PC's do not generally seek vindication against poor hut design.

    Likewise, fire equates to instant death. Never use, make, or approach fire.
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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    The last one reminds me of a mate of mine, he was a barbarian and, every bar we went into...he'd challenge random NPCs to a contest...his wager, about 10 pp. Theirs? Whatever they could afford. The contest? See who can hold their hand over a candle flame for the longest. Lots of dying commoners.

    Eventually, the DM got sick of it, and the barbarian ended up challenging a Drunken Master to this. While at third level. Sort of similar to when the warforged picked up an epic level whore.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Werebear View Post
    If they fail the first save, their con gets dropped enough so that the bite damage gets them bleeding out.
    DC 10? That's a 50% chance even for a commoner.
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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    There's a reason why people fear old cat-ladies. In D&D, they run the small town mobs.

    L1 Commoner: I-I'm sorry ma'am the rains destroyed my crops and I didn't earn enough.
    Cat Lady: Oh, that's too bad, Patches and Scruffles and Mittens don't like that at all, do they Snookums? (nuzzles a cat)
    L1 Commoner: (looks around in terror, not noticing the cats due to their hideously high Hide and Move Silently checks) No! Please! Not Pat-
    Patches: Rrooaw! (Full Attacks)
    Scruffles: Meow! (Full Attacks)
    Mittens: Hsst! (Full Attacks)

    In fact, I think that there's only one creature in the MM that a commoner could defeat, the Toad. If only because the Toad has no natural attacks. Even then the commoner has to find the freaking Toad with it's +21 Hide modifier, so the Toad can win by hiding until an angry cat strolls by.

    The only way that any commoner has any chance at all to defeat any animal is to try and grapple it, praying to their gods that the animal misses its AoO.

    Hmm... it's really bloody hard to find a situation that a commoner could survive.
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    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    A commoner survives:

    Getting hit with the 'flat end' (Read: Nonlethal Damage) of a Greataxe by a 42 STR, leap attacking, power attacking, shocktrooping stone giant barabarian.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Werebear View Post
    If they fail the first save, their con gets dropped enough so that the bite damage gets them bleeding out.

    1 point of Con damage puts a 10 CON commoner down to a -1 modifier, which drops the average HP of 2 to 1. The one damage from the bite drops them to 0. Most people panic when they get bitten, thus taking an action to either run or to freak out. This causes them to drop to -1 and start bleeding out.

    Still, it is the bite that is dropping them, not the venom.
    Actually The commoner's average HP is 2.5 normally, and -1 con modifier drops his average starting HP to 1.75. Unless he gets full HP for first level, which I can't remember.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kioran's Avatar

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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Werebear View Post
    If they fail the first save, their con gets dropped enough so that the bite damage gets them bleeding out.

    1 point of Con damage puts a 10 CON commoner down to a -1 modifier, which drops the average HP of 2 to 1. The one damage from the bite drops them to 0. Most people panic when they get bitten, thus taking an action to either run or to freak out. This causes them to drop to -1 and start bleeding out.

    Still, it is the bite that is dropping them, not the venom.
    The chance that they actually fail to stabilize for 9 subsequent rounds is 0.9 the power of 9, or actually 38.7% - so most commoners would survive being bitten by a rattlesnake, either through good HP rolls or stabilizing before they die. Just my 2cp.
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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkantra View Post
    Hmm... it's really bloody hard to find a situation that a commoner could survive.
    Joe would disagree with you:
    http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=763260

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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    Can survive: swimming along just under the surface of a lake at one-quarter speed for 2 minutes.

    Can't survive: twelve seconds in a bar.
    Last edited by Telonius; 2008-01-25 at 10:04 AM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    Can't survive: twelve seconds in a bar.
    except in England as of last July. Instead their merely nauseated by the smell of sweat and stale beer

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    I just make my commoners with a lot more than 2 hp, because these are ridiculous. Usually in the range of 4 to 7.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    Yeah, commoners have to fear the 10 foot fall, but...

    But you would imagine the local butcher to have the highest mortality rate, until you consider the fact that rolling a 1 never does damage to you, so they never get cut on accident, lose fingers, get workmans comp. Also, there is no chance that a commoner will ever fall off a ladder, since rolling a 1 doesn't mean failure and succeeds at the ladder success DC. They can even climb a 500 foot knotted rope up a wall with no fear. Even if the ladder is slippery, there is only a 5% chance of falling. Man, what a life.
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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    A commonner will survive when

    -DM plot asks

    A commoner will get killed when

    -DM plot asks.
    -insulting a PC
    -being annoying
    -looking suspicous
    -stealing from the PC
    -when befriend/in love/family with a PC (By BBeG)

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by F.H. Zebedee View Post
    This was mentioned in the "Wizard in the Cold" thread, so I decided to put one up. There's two lists here:
    Things a Commoner can't survive, that any normal person should.
    and
    Things a Commoner can survive a majority of the time, though it should kill them.

    List 1: Things Not to Have in a Commoner Safe House:
    -Saunas. They die of heat within minutes.
    -Cats. Housecats can tear a commoner to pieces.
    You might have to take saunas off that list. According to the Rules Compendium (and Sandstorm I think) the commoner will take absolutely no damage from temperatures up to 180F as long as they have improvised shelter. (Which, arguably, a sauna could qualify as.)
    001100010010011110100001101101110011

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    Ok- Most people survive- A solid hit to the stomach with a baseball bat. A commoner with 2 or 3 hp will be disabled or put into negatives with a hit from a club by someone with average or slightly above average strength.
    Last edited by The_Werebear; 2008-01-25 at 01:37 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Terraneaux View Post
    Adventurers. Murderous hobos with near-deific power who are both merciless and incredibly competent at personal combat.
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    Jack Zander's Avatar

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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Werebear View Post
    Ok- Most people survive- A solid hit to the stomach with a baseball bat. A commoner with 2 or 3 hp will be disabled or put into negatives with a hit from a club by someone with average or slightly above average strength.
    But most people will probably throw up or fall unconscious from the hit if it's hard enough or if it hits in the right place. That's probably a critical though.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Werebear View Post
    Ok- Most people survive- A solid hit to the stomach with a baseball bat. A commoner with 2 or 3 hp will be disabled or put into negatives with a hit from a club by someone with average or slightly above average strength.
    A modern baseball bat is not wielded precisely as a club. It's much lighter in general than the club described in the d20 rules. I'd give it 1d4 damage max instead of the 1d6 of a regular club*. Besides, if you get hit full-on in the stomach with a baseball bat, you will be bleeding internally unless you are unusually tough (read: +1 or higher Con bonus). Internal bleeding can be fatal without treatment.

    * Note that I have not read d20 modern, so I don't know if the baseball bat is given special treatment there. I merely know that it's not designed for hitting anything heavier than a baseball or softball and tends to break when used against larger objects. Metal bats are more resilient but not any heavier.
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    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    A club or a quarterstaff is counted as any stick of wood that you can beat someone with. That's why they are free. Both deal 1d6 damage. I don't see any reason why a Baseball bat would count as any different, especially if it was metal. You could probably count them as masterwork then. I've been hit with a baseball bat, and have stayed upright, if in pain. I don't consider myself any tougher than anyone else (thought I may be classed Expert instead of commoner)
    Quote Originally Posted by Terraneaux View Post
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager_I View Post
    Also, avoid any and all ledges or drops of a height approaching or exceeding ten feet. This includes two-story buildings, wells, ladders, roofs, trees, and particularly large rocks.
    To be fair, in real life, a two-story fall is enough to cripple a person for life, or even kill him, although there are cases of people that fell from buildings and got out without any permanent injury.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falrin View Post
    A commoner survives:
    Getting hit with the 'flat end' (Read: Nonlethal Damage) of a Greataxe by a 42 STR, leap attacking, power attacking, shocktrooping stone giant barabarian.
    Maybe, but if you deal too much damage, he'll take hours to wake up, effectivelly falling into a coma. If your strenght is around 16 or more, don't hit too hard the back of that commoner friend of you, or you can end up disabling him.

    Apparently, you can't beat a commoner to death. Once you make him go uncouncious, you can keep punching him for days, and he'll just keep accumulating the nonlethal damage, untill something heals him, or you decide to make a coup-de-grace.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    Well, obviously picking up a stick and whacking someone with it isn't going to be automatically fatal. I've trained with a bo staff (same concept as a quarterstaff) and it takes a certain amount of effort to deliver a seriously damaging blow unless you hit a vital spot.

    I like to think of the basic combat roll as attempting to hit someone as hard as physically possible, with the intent of doing the most damage you can. Most people would go down when hit by a baseball bat in this manner and not given any time to prepare or evade. Plus, the stomach isn't necessarily the best place to aim for. Sure, you can get a stun by hitting the solar plexus, but a blow to the chest breaks ribs, and a blow to the legs cripples.

    As I like to point out, a successful attack roll doesn't mean you made physical contact with your target - it means you hit it well enough and hard enough to inflict meaningful injury. By core rules, an average commoner hitting another average commoner with a club-equivalent would fail to do significant damage 50% of the time, inflict a non-fatal injury 8-16% of the time (assuming 2 or 3 on the target's hit die), disable their opponent 8% of the time, with the remaining probability equaling a potentially fatal blow plus a very small (0.4% chance) of an instant kill (confirmed critical with a 6 on the damage roll).

    Statistically that doesn't seem too bad, although I might be nice and let my commoners have max hp on their first die just to make them a bit less frail.

    Also, the minimum damage rule, taken to the obvious logical extreme, means that a single ant could bite an adult human to death in 2 rounds.
    Last edited by Fighteer; 2008-01-25 at 02:29 PM.
    Proud, small, slightly stinky member of the fan club.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Voyager_I's Avatar

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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by SMDVogrin View Post
    Joe has PC stats, a maximized first hit die, and a name. Most commoners have none of the above.
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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    Quote Originally Posted by Icewalker View Post
    I just make my commoners with a lot more than 2 hp, because these are ridiculous. Usually in the range of 4 to 7.
    I just add Con score and size modifiers to hp.
    This gives a cat 4 hp and a commoner 12hp.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    A commoner can't survive a camel bite.

    Or a dog bite.


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    Ape
    Baboon
    Badger
    Bears
    Bison
    Boars
    Camels
    Cheetahs
    Crocodiles
    Dogs
    Eagles
    Elephants
    Horses
    Hyenas
    Leopards
    Lions
    Manta Ray
    Mules
    Porpoise
    Rhinos
    Sharks
    Constrictor Snakes
    Huge Vipers
    Tigers
    Whales
    Wolves
    Wolverines
    Last edited by WrstDmEvr; 2008-01-25 at 03:40 PM.
    I apologize for the quality of the above post.

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    Istari's Avatar

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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    But yet a guy in real life fell 47 stories and survived.
    He must have had either plot or pc levels

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    Default Re: Commoner Killing and the Indestructible Commoner

    Ooh, another one: starvation and thirst! According to the SRD, going too long without food and/or water will pile on nonlethal damage - potentially a LOT of nonlethal damage - but says nothing about killing them or dealing lethal damage. Same goes for cold and heat. So a Commoner can be crammed into an otherwise-empty freezer for twenty years, and then regain consciousness once somebody gets them a heated blanket and a bottle of Gatorade.
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