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2008-01-25, 02:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
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- Earth
Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
As the title says.
Phantasmal Killer is level 4 but requires 2 saves and is mind effecting.
So whats the lowest level save or die for each save type and what type are they (mind effecting, etc.)?
I'm making an Incantatrix that can drop a -20 level Enervation on a target and I'm looking for a spell to use as the finisher.
All 3.5 books are fair game. Oh feel free to mention any other save or lose spells. Or any save-or-die/save-or-lose that don't allow SR.
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2008-01-25, 02:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
Are you talking about the level they become available at? Ie. are you looking for the best save or die spells at each level?
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2008-01-25, 02:19 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Location
- The Rhine
- Gender
Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
Hideous Laughter, level 2, shuts them down for long enough to easily kill them. But once they have -20 to everything (and -100 HP), why not just have someone hit'em a couple of times?
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2008-01-25, 02:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
I would suggest sleep over hideous laughter. Minutes per level instead of rounds per level, helpless instead of just prone, and it affects animals and different types don't get a pesky bonus to their saving throw. Of course, there is the HD limit but at level 1 when you get you don't really fight anything with more than 4HD.
Last edited by sikyon; 2008-01-25 at 02:24 AM.
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2008-01-25, 02:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- Gold Coast, Australia
- Gender
Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
I'm making an Incantatrix that can drop a -20 level Enervation on a target and I'm looking for a spell to use as the finisher.
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2008-01-25, 02:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2005
- Location
- New England, USA
- Gender
Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
The -20 HD thing would probably help qualify for sleep, although it's not really a guarantee with the big ones...
Charm Person?Praise me not for my born strengths, but for what I make of them.
Scorn me not for my born faults, but for my failure to overcome them.
The Practical Monk's Manuscript
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2008-01-25, 02:57 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Gender
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2008-01-25, 03:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Location
- London, England.
- Gender
Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
I dunno about that....
*Blasts with Energy as before....*
(Saruman-Voice)"It would be wise to serve me."
"A....Alright....I'll...do....whatever you want...."
(Saruman)"A prudent decision."http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=1856 -Shia, my Paladin.
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2008-01-25, 03:08 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
- Location
- Finland
- Gender
Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
Then there's the Death domain ability, which let's you roll d6s equal to your cleric level, and possibly kill the enemy. Not a save-or-die spell, though. Just a nice finisher against low-hp enemies.
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2008-01-25, 03:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- Houston, TX
- Gender
Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
Sudden Maximize, Sudden Empower Enervation?
That's the lowest "no save, just die" I can think of. At least, at the earliest level you can cast it.
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2008-01-25, 03:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2005
- Location
- New England, USA
- Gender
Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
Wait, I know! How 'bout a -20 level Enervation?
"Die!"
"No, really."
Then control theWraithWight and have it finish off the next person you Enervate, creating anotherWraithWight under its (and vicariously, your) control. Continue until bored.Last edited by Voyager_I; 2008-01-25 at 03:50 AM. Reason: Errorfication
Praise me not for my born strengths, but for what I make of them.
Scorn me not for my born faults, but for my failure to overcome them.
The Practical Monk's Manuscript
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2008-01-25, 03:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
Thanks to Veera for the avatar.
I keep my stories in a blog. You should read them.
5E Sorcerous Origin: Arcanist
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2008-01-25, 03:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2005
- Location
- New England, USA
- Gender
Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
Oops...
"One, two,five!three!"Praise me not for my born strengths, but for what I make of them.
Scorn me not for my born faults, but for my failure to overcome them.
The Practical Monk's Manuscript
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2008-01-25, 07:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
- Location
- In search of cheese
Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
As useless as they come:
Death Knell - Kills anything that's already dying. Level 2.Belkar's Bad to the Bone.
Dispossible a fetter hein and bemay kine a sinder's tock.
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2008-01-25, 05:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- The Land of Cleves
- Gender
Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
As useless as they come:
Death Knell - Kills anything that's already dying. Level 2.Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics
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2008-01-25, 06:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Fairfield, CA
- Gender
Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
Well...there's Power Word: Pain, which metamagics nicely. Maximized Chained Empowered Power Word: Pain takes a 9th level slot (or a 6th, if you Arcane Thesis PW:P, or less if you have Incantatrix and/or some other options), but hits the primary target for 32+2d4 rounds of 6+1d3 damage (average: 35 rounds of 8 damage, or 280 total), and hits all the alternates for 32+2d4 rounds of 4+1d2 damage (average: 35 rounds of 4.5 damage, or 192.5 total). No save, SR Yes, and verbal component only. Tack a Fell Drain on there too for some extra negative-levelage if you've got the space, or make it Silent so that you cast it with but a thought.
It's a slow kill, but a kill it is.Last edited by Fax Celestis; 2008-01-25 at 06:13 PM.
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d20r: Spells (I-L) - d20r: Spells (H) - d20r: Spells (G) - d20r: Spells (F) - d20r: Spells (E) - d20r: Spells (D) - d20r: Wizard class
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2008-01-26, 09:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Location
- Flawse Fell, Geordieland
Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
SpoilerLevel 1: Sleep
You fail the save, they stab you to death while you slumber.
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2008-01-26, 11:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- Look behind you...
- Gender
Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
Eh, a -20 level enervation kills everything with 40HD and below, due to the way negative levels work (they -1 off the effective level, and kill when they equal subject level, so 20 negative levels kill 40HD creatures). Is a Save-or-die really that necessary?
Otherwise, sleep or color spray might work well.RAR!
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2008-01-26, 12:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
I really don't get what you mean by this. Why exactly is each negative level considered double?
Edit:
-1 effective level (whenever the creature’s level is used in a die roll or calculation, reduce it by one for each negative level).A character with negative levels at least equal to her current level, or drained below 1st level, is instantly slain.Last edited by Theli; 2008-01-26 at 12:43 PM.
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2008-01-26, 12:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
- Mountain View, CA
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Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
Each negative level gives a -1 penalty to effective level. So a 40th level character with 20 negative levels has an effective level of 20. A character with negative levels equal to his current level dies. 20 negative levels = effective level 20, so the level 40 character is dead.
This ignores the rest of the sentence ("or drained below 1st level"), however, which clearly indicates that the instant death rule is meant to relate to the undrained level total.Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.
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2008-01-26, 12:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
The rules compendium clarifies it somewhat by referring to "current level or Hit Dice". Since drained levels don't actually reduce hit dice, the correct interpretation seems to be that you must drain all 40 levels to kill a level 40 creature this way.
001100010010011110100001101101110011
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2008-01-26, 02:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2005
- Location
- New England, USA
- Gender
Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
Praise me not for my born strengths, but for what I make of them.
Scorn me not for my born faults, but for my failure to overcome them.
The Practical Monk's Manuscript
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2008-01-26, 02:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Location
- San Antonio, Texas
- Gender
Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
Outside of ones that require a secondary action (like sleep), I think your best killer is, indeed, Phantasmal Killer.
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2008-01-26, 03:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
Second edition had Chromatic Orb, a first-level spell which was a straight save-or-die effect (requiring a touch attack, iirc) as long as its caster was 11th-level or higher.
Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
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2008-01-26, 03:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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- Fairfield, CA
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Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
If you could find a way to consistently get the high effects (like petrification) on spells like prismatic spay or prismatic ray, that'd work too.
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d20r Compilation PDF - last updated 9.11.14
d20r: Spells (I-L) - d20r: Spells (H) - d20r: Spells (G) - d20r: Spells (F) - d20r: Spells (E) - d20r: Spells (D) - d20r: Wizard class
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2008-01-26, 03:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
- Mountain View, CA
- Gender
Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.
Avatar by Ceika.
Archives:
SpoilerSaberhagen's Twelve Swords, some homebrew artifacts for 3.5 (please comment)
Isstinen Tonche for ECL 74 playtesting.
Team Solars: Powergaming beyond your wildest imagining, without infinite loops or epic. Yes, the DM asked for it.
Arcane Swordsage: Making it actually work (homebrew)
-
2008-01-26, 03:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Fairfield, CA
- Gender
Re: Whats the lowest level save or die spell?
Wiki - Q&A - FB - LIn - Tw
d20r Compilation PDF - last updated 9.11.14
d20r: Spells (I-L) - d20r: Spells (H) - d20r: Spells (G) - d20r: Spells (F) - d20r: Spells (E) - d20r: Spells (D) - d20r: Wizard class