dragon shaman builds

[riddles]

hi all, long time comic reader, first time poster.

i'm currently playing in the following party:
Paladin, bard, mage, fighter, rogue

i'm the fighter, but certain quest elements lead me to believe i might die fairly soon. i recently got the phb2 for my birthday and would like to have a look at the dragon shaman.

it looks like it wants to be a tanking class with some buffing, but lacks heavy armour and the weapon proficiencies, so i was looking at builds that might help me fill that role (note; i don't want to be a one trick pony with the breath weapon). I particularly like the copper dragon draconic adaption - spider climb in a city/dungeon delving campaign could be very useful.

Oh, i will be a human and have access to core books pretty much - phb, phb2. will probably invest in defenders of the faith/complete warrior and dragon magic at some point.

i'll come in at level 3, and have a couple of builds in mind. just wondered what people's thoughts on the class and usefullness:

Fighter1/Dragon Shaman X
heavy armour and weapon proficiency, additional feat.
Level 1: Shield specialisation
Human Bonus Feat: improved shield bash
Fighter Bonus Feat: agile shield fighter
Level 3: Weapon Focus
Makes me a more credible fighter with a very good AC. I won't hit as often as your standard fighter, or even a cleric but i get more dice to offset my average rolling

Barbarian1/Dragon Shaman X
rage, additional movement, weapon proficiency
either a similar feat build to the fighter or a damage output build (greataxe/power attack)
with the shield fighting build my ac is still good, with the damage output build i am more fragile but the higher movement speed would be handy to get me into flanking positions (i'm curently a dwarf, don't get that very often)

Paladin 2(3?)/Dragon Shaman X
the charisma synergy is what attracts me here. i'm not sure about the paladin progression, but i'm fairly sure 2 or 3 levels gets me the charisma bonus on saves and lay on hands - meaning my healing powers will offset the lack of cleric (i'm usually the cleric in the group and have converted the players to wands of light healing at long last). roleplaying would be difficult though...and the copper dragon totem is out


soooooo...any tips for bulking out the class's fighting/staying power? If i can supplement that with the auras and the additional breath weapon attacks now and then, i figure i could complement the party quite well.

[marjan]

I prefer paladin one. If you want copper dragon see if your DM will let you take paladin of freedom from UA because of alignment restriction, if not I would go with Barbarian. Drop WF and probably Improved Shield Bash (unless these are prerequisites for something else you want later).

If you are looking for some defensive feats Shield Specialization + Shield Ward is good, but there really is no reason to take Shield Specialization unless you also take Shield Ward. In core there aren't many feats that will help out Dragon Shaman. Depending on your WIS score combat form feats are nice, but you probably won't have wis that high.

For offense you should go with barb and pick up PA and Extra Rage (I'm not sure in which of the books it is, CW IIRC).

Auras are nice but nothing to be too excited about. Good ones are: Vigor(since you don't have cleric in group every way of healing is useful), Senses (initiative bonus is always good), the one that boosts melee dmg (not all that good, but you don't have better aura for combat), if it is low-magic setting the one that grants you DR/magic is nice, otherwise it's useless.

[bigbaddragon]

There is a Shamanic Invocation variant in Dragon Magic that allows you to substitute one aura for one least draconic invocation available to Dragonfire Adepts.

Good feats for Dragon Shaman would be:
- Entangling Exhalation from Races of the Dragon which halves your breath weapon damage but entangles opponents for d4 rounds (you need dragonblood subtype for this feat and you can acquire it via Dragontouched feat in Dragon Magic)
-Double Draconic Aura (from Dragon Magic) which lets you project two auras at the same time though it requires character level 12

The best advice I can give you regarding Dragon Shaman (I'm surprised that marjan didn't already) is to avoid it because I've seen it in action and I didn't like it at all. Me and marjan had one DS in our party and most of the time he served as pack mule rather than a tank.

Now you mentioned that you wanted to fill the tank role in your party, so you could consider taking on Knight instead. You would get:
- better hit dice (d12)
- the ability to make most of the enemies focus on you
- the ability to ignore movement speed penalties from medium and heavy armor
- the ability to make all the enemies that start their turn in your threat area treat your threat area as difficult terrain
- you could avoid being one trick pony by using your normal feats for
Improved Trip/Combat Reflexes + reach weapon combo (works especially good if the party mage is friend with you and enlarges you all the time) and using bonus Knight feats for something else (Mounted combat for example)

You could also spend two feats later to get Thicket of Blades stance from Tome of Battle (every movement provokes AoO which means no 5 foot step, no withdraw, no tumble) and you could take one level of Marshal in order to add your Charisma to trip attempts.

[Person_Man]

Dragon Shaman are notoriously hard to optimize. They are also exceptionally weak at mid-high levels because their auras scale very poorly.

If you want to Tank with a secondary focus on buffing, you have several much better options.

Bard: Here's how.

Crusader: Buy the Tome of Battle. Full BAB, d12 hit dice, Mettle, and tons of maneuvers that heal and/or buff.

Knight: Very little optimization needed - this class was built to be a battlefield controlling Tank. I suggest being a Small race so that you can ride your Medium mount anywhere. Take Combat Reflexes and the mounted combat feat tree, which you get as bonus feats. Use Ride By Attack and Spirited Charge with a lance two handed and an Animated Shield. Buy and train a pack of cheap riding dogs, or take Leadership if you want something with a Climb or Fly speed.

If you still want to be a Dragon Shaman, I think that multi-classing into Barbarian or Fighter is a poor choice. In order to be effective past low levels, you need to maximize your auras. The only way to do that is to keep going in Dragon Shaman or head into a similar PrC from Dragon Magic.

[PlatinumJester]

Human Green Dragon Shaman 10/Ghost Faced Killer 10 (Complete Adventurer)

Stats (32 point buy)

STR 16 (increase at levels 4 + 8 + 20)
Dex 12
Con 12
Cha 16 (increase at levels 12 + 16)
Wis 10
Int 14

Feats -
Power Attack (GFK prequisite - decent all the same)
Improved Initiative (GFK prequisite helpful and you'll probably win the intiative if you have your senses aura on at the beginning of combat)
Dragon Mark (House Orion - Least, lesser and greater) (Helpful and good for fluff)
Favoured in House (At high levels this is great)
Double Draconic Aura (2 auras are better than one)
Skill Focus both Hide and Move Silently (bonus feats)
1 feat left over (knock yourself out)

Skills -
Hide - max
MS - max
Concentration - 4 ranks (prequisite for GFK)
Bluff - max
Intimidate (max)
Climb (14 ranks - start maxing when you stop taking ranks in concentration)
Swim (10 ranks - start maxing when you get GFK)
Jump (10 ranks - start maxing when you get GFK)

Weapon - Morning star until you become GFK, then switch to a bastard sword or Greatsword.

Good Items to buy at higher levels -
Bracers of the Hunter (Secrets of Xendri'k 8500gp) - +1d6 sudden strike, +4 to hide and +2 to intiative.
Tooth of Savnok (2000gp) - avoid movement penaltes from wearing heavy/medium armour and/or a medium//heavy load.
Mithral Fullplate - no movement penalty thanks to ToS and is treated as medium.
Mithral Dastana - +1 shield AC and no armour check penalty. (25gp)
Healing Belt (MiC, 750gp) everyone should have one.
Blessed Bandages (MiC, 10gp) automatically stabalise a dying person.
Anklet of Translocation (MiC, 2000gp) - short teleportation.
Feather Fal Token (50gp, Sharn: City of Towers) - slow fall 50 feet.
Gloves of the Master Strategist (Ghostwalk, 3600gp) - acts like Bracers of Holding but allow you to cast True Strike 1/day and cost less. Allows you to make out power attack increasing the killing strike DC and still have a good chance of hitting the enemy.


At this point you should be able to be a good back up fighter, sneaker, healer and you have some good social skills. You can do pretty much anything a cleric can do but not on such a cheesy scale and the fluff is quite good. Spy for House Orion maybe?

[dyslexicfaser]

Dragonfire Adept from Races of Dragon is generally acknowledged to be a better class than Dragon Shaman with almost the same flavor, but if you want to stick with Dragon Shaman, here's my thoughts:

You're right that at first glance it looks like a frontline sort of guy, but they're not. Some feats you might consider are the Draconomicon metabreath feats. Pile on a couple and your breath weapon improves greatly, albeit

The best aura is generally acknowledged to be the Vigor one: permanent fast healing (albeit only up to half HP) saves you a lot in CLW wands. And since you don't seem to have a dedicated healer, it seems like it would be worth its weight in gold.

You might also try a level or two dip of Marshal, since you have auras already and thus should stay in the middle of the pack to spread that around. That lets you can diversify and pile on a draconic, minor, and major aura all at once. Marshal is also a below-average class, but I like the synergy.

Pick up a Dragon Cincture, as well. An extra 1d6 on your breath weapon and +1 DC if you have an energy weapon (grab the crystal for 500g if you go this route: it qualifies) of the same type as your breath for 2k.

You won't be a bruiser no matter what you do, but it is a fun class to play.

[Chronos]

Paladin 2(3?)/Dragon Shaman X
the charisma synergy is what attracts me here. i'm not sure about the paladin progression, but i'm fairly sure 2 or 3 levels gets me the charisma bonus on saves and lay on hands - meaning my healing powers will offset the lack of cleric (i'm usually the cleric in the group and have converted the players to wands of light healing at long last).

Lay on Hands should not be a factor in deciding whether to take a paladin dip. Your amount of LoH available is your paladin level times your Cha modifier, so if you're only going to have a low paladin level, it doesn't get you very much at all. However, the Detect Evil and Divine Grace (at 1st and 2nd, respectively) can both be dip-worthy in some circumstances.

[CASTLEMIKE]

Barbarian -1, (Warblade -1 or Knight -1 or F-1), Dragon Shaman -1 (Single level dip for the limited party Fast Healing -1) feats to personal taste.