4.0 Aasimar, won't someone think of the children!

[Blackadder]

Considering all the unhappiness about Tiefling's getting their own society and a cliche or ten, it occured to me no one's been talking about the more popular cousin of Tieflings, that being... the Aasimar.

Are aasimar still the result of a Celestial and a humanoid getting it on+2 generations? Are the Tiefling's long haired hippy cousins doomed to fade into nothingness with 4.0?

Do we have any information or speculation on this point?

[de-trick]

I for one would like Aasimar to be a main race, cause then there would be a unbalance between good and evil.

[Rutee]

Tieflings are getting a new cliche? Where?

Anyway, I'm afraid I can't back it up, but as I recall, Aasimar were getting a rename, but wouldn't be in the PHB. Prolly in the Monster Manual, if anywhere.

[horseboy]

Aren't they going to be called "Celestials" or something?

[Blackadder]

Aren't they going to be called "Celestials" or something?

So what? The old Celestials just become "The Good Guys(TM)"?

Rutee the Tieflings get lose the "Bow-chicka-wow-wow" cliche(Demon blood) and gain the "Evil deal" cliche. Along with possibly other cliche's, we don't know all the Tiefling details yet.

[the_tick_rules]

how about call them quarter breeds, or 1/8th or whatever their percentage is.

[Rutee]

Rutee the Tieflings get lose the "Bow-chicka-wow-wow" cliche(Demon blood) and gain the "Evil deal" cliche. Along with possibly other cliche's, we don't know all the Tiefling details yet.

Trading a Cliche is not the same as gaining one.

[Doomsy]

Aasimar seem to have been generically considered good guys and as such, fairly boring. Which is a shame. The few people I've played with who rolled Aasimar decided to pretty much abuse the common misconceptions in amusing ways.

The Tiefling thing is pretty much pandering, pure and simple, and probably a result of realizing they couldn't stuff Drow into the PBH to sate the needs of a certain few player types.
Hopefully the Aasimar will get their day as a playable race in an handbook or in the MM, though. ...and as a balanced +0 one too. With decent fluff. Not going to hold my breath on it, tho.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Not to mention, too many Drizzt's wouldaf been suspicious.

[ShadowSiege]

Anyway, I'm afraid I can't back it up, but as I recall, Aasimar were getting a rename, but wouldn't be in the PHB. Prolly in the Monster Manual, if anywhere.

Races and Classes made mention of it IIRC. I don't mind the change in Tiefling fluff, considering it'd take a pretty sick person to *ahem* a demon (or was it just fiends in general? Still, most devils don't look pretty appealing). The deal with the devil backfiring is a much better trope, coming back to bite the deal makers in the ass in the long term, but giving them the short term gain they wanted.

[TheOOB]

On the one hand, it would be silly to create the watered down infernal and not the good one, on the other Aasimars often present the present even a greater role play problem then Tieflings. Given too many Tieflings are angsty rebels trying to go against their infernal nature, but Aasimars have a tendency to be holier-then-thou Miko-esq insane "good" guys, believing themselves to be always right no matter what. Basically you have all the role play problems a paladin presents, wrapped up into a race (not to mention the aasimar paladins.) Also, it should be noted that celestials don't have quite as big of a reputation of having kids with mortals, at least in modern western ideas (but brings ancient greece into things and that changes.)

[Charles Phipps]

Bizarrely, I always liked Aasimar because I figured out the "Hook" for them. My problem was always "Tieflings are drawn to evil." Right? That's easy to roleplay, for me, I always thought it was a blast to have "Drawn to Good."

The best Aasimar character that I ever saw was one that had the constant burning angst about not being GOOD ENOUGH. It was like a painful throbbing in his skull that he had to be this transcendental being that no human could possibly match. Worse, that he was trapped on a world surrounded by values that were physical painful.

There's some good roleplaying opportunities with Aasimar. Just remember, they don't naturally have the glorious serenity of a Paladin.

[Azerian Kelimon]

3.5E fluff disagrees with that.

[Charles Phipps]

3.5E fluff disagrees with that.

Which doesn't apply because it's about 4E Celestials now.

But I imagine that no one is going to kick down your door because you have a new take on the idea.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Of course. But I'm placing a ginormous bet on that, once Aasimar appear, one line in their fluff will EXPLICITLY say: "Serene, calm, and composed..."etc. Because it fits an LG supergood, and LG has been the "True" good alignment since first edition (I disagree with this. The title should go to NG).

[ShadowSiege]

Of course. But I'm placing a ginormous bet on that, once Aasimar appear, one line in their fluff will EXPLICITLY say: "Serene, calm, and composed..."etc. Because it fits an LG supergood, and LG has been the "True" good alignment since first edition (I disagree with this. The title should go to NG).

Agreed on the NG. The course of action that does the greatest good, regardless of benefit/detriment to society. I certainly wouldn't take your bet about the fluff of the aasimar.

As for tieflings and aasimar, I've always thought of their predisposition towards evil and good as just that, predisposition. It's like being born with a predisposition to being scrawny or athletic, it's ultimately the result of choice and the environment the individual grew up in on whether the individual goes with it or not. They're human, but with some cosmetic differences and a tendency to either be a jerk or nice.

[Talya]

Aasimar are not naturally "lawful." They tend toward good, but have no special disposition toward lawful. Celestials themselves range across the law-chaos scale. Angels can all be any. (Although archons are certaily lawful). They'll need to replace the BoED Eladrin in 4.0, since the Eladrin have been made into pansy arcane elves...need a less rigid celestial type dedicated to individual liberty as opposed to the hive-mind "greater good" of the Archons.

[Charles Phipps]

Counterpoint, 4E Angels aren't going to be naturally Good.

There will be Chaotic Evil Angels serving the Gods of Chaotic Evil.

[Serrae]

The races and classes prevew book does mention them, they are changing the name because no-one can remeber/spell Aasimar apparently

They said they want to try and find an exciting hook for them due to the problem of goodness being seen as boring, so its really a case of waiting to see what Wizards consider makes a cool good-guy.

However if evil gods get evil angels, and Aasimar become someone with a mix of human and angel blood (rather than specifically a celestial backround) then you could have Aasimar of evil origin, still bearing the charming looks of their angelic backround and favour of thier patron gods, but running the gambit between alignments.

That being said probably not, I imagine they will remain the ultra-good people that we know, lets just hope they remain with good racials to be bards!

[Emperor Demonking]

Aadimars can't really fit as "related" to tieflings as you never hear of making pacts with angels.

[Serrae]

Aadimars can't really fit as "related" to tieflings as you never hear of making pacts with angels.

Hmm though in the old fluff... Grandma and grandpa split up, grandma met a nice Incubus gentleman while grandpa found a nice winged lady in Celestia, 2 generations down the line and chaos ensues as the descendants of grandma and grandpa's shared child meets up with the descendants of their children with supernatural bodies!

hmm... *steals for future overly complicated npcs*

[AslanCross]

Considering all the unhappiness about Tiefling's getting their own society and a cliche or ten, it occured to me no one's been talking about the more popular cousin of Tieflings, that being... the Aasimar.

Are aasimar still the result of a Celestial and a humanoid getting it on+2 generations? Are the Tiefling's long haired hippy cousins doomed to fade into nothingness with 4.0?

Do we have any information or speculation on this point?

I'm pretty sure the dude in the middle with the lightsaber is a Celestial.

Spoiler

Show

[AslanCross]

Considering all the unhappiness about Tiefling's getting their own society and a cliche or ten, it occured to me no one's been talking about the more popular cousin of Tieflings, that being... the Aasimar.

Are aasimar still the result of a Celestial and a humanoid getting it on+2 generations? Are the Tiefling's long haired hippy cousins doomed to fade into nothingness with 4.0?

Do we have any information or speculation on this point?

I'm pretty sure the dude in the middle with the lightsaber is a Celestial.

Spoiler

Show

To be honest, I'm glad they dropped the "Celestial" terminology as it was used in 3.5e: It used to apply to:
1. Any good-aligned outsider, whether angel, archon, guardinal, or eladrin
2. A creature native to the higher planes.

This confused me, because in 3.5 the "Half-Celestial" template is a lot more powerful than the "Celestial" template. Then I realized that it was because the Half-Celestial represents a creature who has a celestial outsider for a parent, while the "Celestial" template simply means an otherwise mundane creature made powerful by being native to the higher planes.

As much as I liked the "aasimar" race name, it's not really always completely true. The name comes from "Aasimon," which was the collective term that used to be applied to Angels. Of course, not all Aasimar are descended from Angels, so it's sort of inconsistent.

[Lolzords]

If Tieflings are core, don't see why Aasimar can't be too.

P.S. Blackadder

[Ecalsneerg]

Spoiler

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The artwork better stay like that for 4e, that's all I'm saying. TThat is kickass.

The races and classes prevew book does mention them, they are changing the name because no-one can remeber/spell Aasimar apparently

And Tiefling is easy to spell....

[Charles Phipps]

They literally said in the book "Everyone kept wanting to call it Ass-imar."

[Morty]

They literally said in the book "Everyone kept wanting to call it Ass-imar."

I'd say it's their problem, not the name's...
I still don't see what's wrong with the name. It's perfectly possible to spell and doesn't have any apostrophes.

[Charles Phipps]

I'd say it's their problem, not the name's...
I still don't see what's wrong with the name. It's perfectly possible to spell and doesn't have any apostrophes.

Honestly, I don't like Celestials.

I think I'll call my Half-Celestials, Archons.

;-)

(I love the blatant name switching with no regard to past use of the term)

[KIDS]

I always had the impression that the upcoming Eladrin ate some of the Aasimar/Celestial flavor, but i could be wrong...

[Kioran]

And Tiefling is easy to spell....

Be a german, then it is........Allthough we alternate between german and english (for rules and terms - english is the D&D language, most material is only available in it) at the table, the german pronunciation makes a lot of things that might sound silly sound a lot better, among these the much maligned distant descendants of Outsiders.

I think it´s not fair to say Aasimars should be available as player race in 4th Ed becasue Tieflings are - after all, they didn´t survive conversion into 4th Ed either. Seriously, the Tieflings they are making today are cosmetically preserved, but much of the rest has been trashed, which is sad......