Optimize a Fighter For me plz

[Brom]

Here is a challenge I pose to you all of the forum. I have a first level human fighter. I need it optimized to do something really well. I want examples of a)

1) Two handed weapon fighter
2) Sword and shield fighter
3) Light weapon fighter
4) Reach Weapon Fighter
5) Ranged Weapons Fighter

The stats avaliable are 16, 18, 14, 12, 12, 10

You can use any feat from the following books: PH, PH2, CS, CA, CW, CM, C-Arcane, Libris Mortis, Complete Psionic, and Expanded Psionics handbook

What I do not want is any builds involving tripping, bullrushes, grapples, or anything essentially representing tactical attack >_> our gaming group is nonproficient with those weapons, tyvm.

If you can do that, my eternal gratitude to you!

[Tempest Fennac]

Two-weapon Fighter:
Str: 18, Dex: 16 (to allow access to two-Weapon Fightning while putting you in relatively easy reach of the prequisites for Improved Two-weapon fighting). Con: 14. Int and Wis: 12. Cha: 10. They should ideally use 2 light weapons to limit 2-weapon fighting penalties, and both of these weapons should ideally cause different types of damage (I'd go with a short sword and a handaxe while keeping a light mace handy). Due to the Dex stat, a breastplate would be the best type or armour.

Ranged Fighter:
Use exactly the same stats and use a Composite longbow as a weapon (it would allow you to add Str to damage rolls). If you're more concerned with accuracy then damage, swap Str and Dex around (a composite bow would still be a great choice here). Pointblang shot and Precise shot are really useful if enemies are attacking the group's melee fighters, and you may want to use a chain shirt in regards to armour in order to maximise your moility (AC isn't as important for this build due to how it's not a melee fighter). Carrying a melee weapon which causes slashing or budgeoning damage would allow you to help against enemies with DR vs. piercing damage (or if you can't really use archery on them).

Reach Fighter:
Use the same stats as the Two-weapon fighting build with a Spiked Chain and Combat Reflexes (it deals 2 different types of damage, and the high Dex stat will allow more attacks of opportunity to be made, but you would need to use a feat for Exotic Weapon Proficiency). Power Attack and Cleave would also be useful. Carrying a Longsword as a back-up weapon would also be a good idea. A breastplate would be fine regarding armour.

Sword and Shield Fighter: Use a Longsword with a heavy shield (a tower shield would reduce your accuracy, so it's probably not a good idea to use one). Have your stats as : Str: 18. Dex: 12. Con: 16. Int: 12 Wis: 14 (for a slight bonus to Will saves. If you're more concerned with skill points, swap Wis and Int). Cha: 10. Use Full Plate for armour (mobility isn't as important for this build as it is for the ranged Fighter). Power Attack and Cleave are useful feats. Carry a Morning Star (and possibly a Composite Bow) as back-up weapons.

Two-Handed weapon Fighter:
Same stats as Sword and Shield fighter. Use a Great Sword while keeping a Great Club as a back-up weapon, and use Full Plate. Power Attack and Cleave are excellent feats for this build as well.

Combat Focus is a really good feat for most Fighter buils later on ( http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-...mbat_Focus,PH2 ) due to allowing access to some other nice feats including Combat Vigor ( http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-...mbat_Vigor,PH2 ). You would need at least 13 Wis to use these, though. Combat Brute would be useful if you did consider trying Bull Rushing or Sundering, as would Shock Trooper for Bull Rushed (especially if you are confident that you can sacrifice some AC when charging).


I'll add more as I get ideas.

[Zenos]

Stat it out how you want to, then:

Go two-handed.
Then take power attack, leap attack, get improved bullrush to take shock trooper etc.

[Shishnarfne]

I'll differ slightly on TWF:

Power attack cannot be used with light weapons... guess what sort of weapons you use for TWF. Also, I think that you get enough attacks that Cleave has minimal impact.

So, I'd call Dex the top stat, followed by Str and Con (based on whether you prefer the extra little bit of damage or hp, I'd take hp), go for Weapon Finesse (I prefer shortswords or handaxes), the TWF tree, the best armor you can buy that lets you keep your full Dex mod (mithril is your friend), Quick Draw (so you can full attack in the first round of combat, if someone's next to you), and the often derided Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization tree (when you are full attacking with two weapons, the extra damage shows up more). You have the feats for it, so don't worry about running out. The Dervish PrC lets you full attack while moving and gives you bonuses for doing so, so don't be afraid to enter. If you choose to do so, you might postpone the WF/WSpec feats until you can duel-wield scimitars... Your call.

The real key is to maximize damage per strike, so a lot comes from the weapons that you get. Speed is not a bad Enchantment (an extra attack at full BAB for +3 ench.), but I prefer to stack elemental effects, myself. If a friendly caster will GMW your blades, that can save funds for weapon enchantments. Improved Critical is not bad if you like the Crit-enhanced versions of Flaming, Frost, Shock, etc.

Just one last word on TWF: full attacks are excellent, extra damage per attack is nearly as good, and I wouldn't argue with a short dip in rogue for Sneak Attack+Evasion (since you're likely to wear light armor).

[Telonius]

I'd arrange the stats as Tempest suggests for the two-handed weapon fighter.

Race: Human
Feats: Power Attack, Improved Initiative
Class: Ranger

I'd recommend a level of Ranger to start out. Basically this means that, by level 20, you're trading 1 Fighter bonus feat and 1 hp (on average) for +2 to Reflex saves, Track, Wild Empathy, a Favored Enemy, and 16 skill points. Sounds like a good bargain to me. Next level, take another level of Ranger for more skill points. Unless you're using fractional bonuses, this will also net you a higher Fort save at level 20 than you'd normally be able to achieve. The downside is that you won't be able to use your Combat Style, since you'll normally be in Heavy armor. But FTR 19 is a dead level. After that, take Fighter levels to get yourself some juicy feats.

[cupkeyk]

For TWF I would go with a two handed weapon and unarmed strikes. You benefit from PA from both.

[ashmanonar]

For the Power Attack afficionados, just wait until your DM puts you up against Bugbears, with high dex, high nat armor, and levels of Rogue; or just wearing +1 shields and +1 morningstars (at level 4, nonetheless.) Especially nasty if they're wearing various magic defense items (ring, bracer, etc).

We had about a 20% chance to hit before Power Attacking. Nasty mobs to kill.

Oh, and they all have racial hit dice.

Have fun!

[cupkeyk]

For the Power Attack afficionados, just wait until your DM puts you up against Bugbears, with high dex, high nat armor, and levels of Rogue; or just wearing +1 shields and +1 morningstars (at level 4, nonetheless.) Especially nasty if they're wearing various magic defense items (ring, bracer, etc).

We had about a 20% chance to hit before Power Attacking. Nasty mobs to kill.

Oh, and they all have racial hit dice.

Have fun!

Huh?

bugbears only get +2 to dex and +3 nat ac. A CR 5 bugbear rogue would have about 22 ac. Really, PA fighters should worry about stirges.

[ashmanonar]

Huh?

bugbears only get +2 to dex and +3 nat ac. A CR 5 bugbear rogue would have about 22 ac. Really, PA fighters should worry about stirges.

Our DM's been putting us up against AC 27 Bugbears.

We've gotta be buffed up the wazoo to even think about PA on these guys. And to avoid being smashed into the floor, I've been having to use the Morningstar and shield.

[Roderick_BR]

For the Power Attack afficionados, just wait until your DM puts you up against Bugbears, with high dex, high nat armor, and levels of Rogue; or just wearing +1 shields and +1 morningstars (at level 4, nonetheless.) Especially nasty if they're wearing various magic defense items (ring, bracer, etc).

We had about a 20% chance to hit before Power Attacking. Nasty mobs to kill.

Oh, and they all have racial hit dice.

Have fun!

If that happens, the players start to go "we will hit only with a nat 20 anyway, so let's max power attack because we'll at least kill them faster when we hit".
And magic weapons/armor/shields at level 4? Sign me up for that adventure, I need some full magic gear before reaching 5th level.

A good way to optmize fighters is to abuse the tactical feats. Make a über charger with shock trooper, a two handed reach weapon, and then throw in things like Blood Spiked Charger (although you may need a shield. can bucklers be spiked?), Elusive Target, and load some ranged feats for when the target is too far (as long it doesn't have Wind Wall...)

@Tempest Fennac: If you are willing to spend a feat, you could get either Oversized Two Weapon fighting to use two one-handed weapons, or any double weapon so you can power attack with a two-handed hit sometimes.
The gnome hooked-hammer is interesting because while the base damage is small, you get two kinds of damage, and one of them, while not reach, is a tripping weapon. Anyway, when you are using two one-handed weapons, IF you can hit with both at least once, you gain a benefit similar to a two-handed, that is twice the power attack penalty. Plus, you can use the two-weapon rend.
But yeah, hard to make an optmized fighter without dipping in others classes.

[Tempest Fennac]

Thanks for the advice (I wasn;t really thinking about exotic or twin weapons, excluding Spiked Chains).

[ashmanonar]

If that happens, the players start to go "we will hit only with a nat 20 anyway, so let's max power attack because we'll at least kill them faster when we hit".
And magic weapons/armor/shields at level 4? Sign me up for that adventure, I need some full magic gear before reaching 5th level.

A good way to optmize fighters is to abuse the tactical feats. Make a über charger with shock trooper, a two handed reach weapon, and then throw in things like Blood Spiked Charger (although you may need a shield. can bucklers be spiked?), Elusive Target, and load some ranged feats for when the target is too far (as long it doesn't have Wind Wall...)

@Tempest Fennac: If you are willing to spend a feat, you could get either Oversized Two Weapon fighting to use two one-handed weapons, or any double weapon so you can power attack with a two-handed hit sometimes.
The gnome hooked-hammer is interesting because while the base damage is small, you get two kinds of damage, and one of them, while not reach, is a tripping weapon. Anyway, when you are using two one-handed weapons, IF you can hit with both at least once, you gain a benefit similar to a two-handed, that is twice the power attack penalty. Plus, you can use the two-weapon rend.
But yeah, hard to make an optmized fighter without dipping in others classes.

Heh...as often as I roll nat 20's? I'm better off not Power Attacking.

[cupkeyk]

I don't see why you dislike PA. There is a luck feat that lets you treat a natural 1 on an attack roll as a natural 20 once a day. You'd be happy with a 20. Circumventing AC is easy: flanking, wraithstrike, acrobatic tumble... should get most baddies AC to around 8. With just one rank in UMD a fighter can get Magic Item Attunement on a wand of wraiithstrike. Fighters get A LOT of feats. They might as well use them.

[ashmanonar]

I don't see why you dislike PA. There is a luck feat that lets you treat a natural 1 on an attack roll as a natural 20 once a day. You'd be happy with a 20. Circumventing AC is easy: flanking, wraithstrike, acrobatic tumble... should get most baddies AC to around 8. With just one rank in UMD a fighter can get Magic Item Attunement on a wand of wraiithstrike. Fighters get A LOT of feats. They might as well use them.

I actually like Power Attack just fine. It's a great feat, and it's quite useful. I'm just pointing out that you can't rely on it for every fight. Some fights are going to involve things you will have a damn hard time hitting.

[Deepblue706]

If you had access to complete champion, I'd show you my massive dual-lance wielding charger of doom.