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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Hooked Chain - weapon + feats [PEACH]

    Hooked Chain: (exotic weapon)
    An hooked chain is a smaller version of the spiked chain. I could be wielded using just one hand. It has a reach of two squares (10ft) An hooked chain has a large curved hook in its terminal part, used to grapple an opponent and to catch an opponent's body or weapon.
    With an hooked chain you can perform a Disarm attempt with a +4 to the roll, and you can release the chain to avoid to be tripped or pulled.
    You can also try to hook the opponet, during a successfull attack. Hooking gives you the possibility to pull your opponent towards you with a successfull Strength check against him. You can release the hooked chain to avoid to be pulled as well. An hooked opponent is pulled for a distance equal to your movement for all the time he remains hooked. If he's pulled, he is forced to use his movement action during his turn to follow the wielder of the hooked chain. If you did not move in the last turn, the opponet can move towards you and release the tension of the chain and avoid being damaged and pulled, but still remains hooked: he can remove the hook by himself with a successfull Str check against you (this action causes attacks of opportunity).
    Hooking an opponent deals the base damage of the hooked chain (without the Str bonus) for every round the opponent is pulled. When hooked, an opponent is not able to defend himself well and has a penality of -2 to his AC.
    Hooking an opponent is a standard action that causes an attack of opportunity from adiacent opponents.
    An hooked chain not designed to perform a Trip attempt.
    You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to add your Dex bonus istead of your Str bonus to the attack bonus when using an hooked chain.

    Hooked Chain

    exotic light weapon
    Cost: 20 gold
    Damage: 1d6 (M), 1d4 (S), 2d4 (L)
    Critic: 20x2
    Reach: 3m (10ft.)
    Weight: 3 lb.
    Type: Piercing

    Improved Hook (feat)
    You can use an hooking weapon at its best.
    Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise, Exotic weapon proficiency (hooked chain)
    Benefits: A character does not provoke an attack of opportunity when is hooking and opponet, and gains a +4 to Str checks when pulling an opponent.
    Normal: Hooking provokes an attack of opportunity.
    Special: A Fighter could take this feat as a fighter bonus feat.

    Greater Hook (feat)
    You are a master in hooking an opponent.
    Prerequisites: Str 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Exotic weapon proficiency (hooked chain), Improved Hook
    Benefits: A character can pull an opponet in a way that is not more able to defend himself correctly. An hooked opponent loses his Dex bonus to AC and Reflexes saving throw as long as he's hooked. Plus, the character can add his Str bonus to the damage dealt when hooking.
    Normal: An hooked opponent does not lose is Dex bonus but only has a -2 to the AC. When hooking an opponent, you don't add your Str bonus to the damage dealt.
    Special: A Fighter could take this feat as a fighter bonus feat.


    Please comment and give advices.
    Last edited by Caracol; 2008-02-11 at 01:18 PM.

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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Hooked Chain - weapon + feats [PEACH]

    1. If this is smaller than spiked chain it should deal less damage.

    2. Why does this have a reach 9ft.? Reach is in 5ft. increments, and this is smaller than a spiked chain so why does have longer reach and the same damage? More criticism to follow.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Hooked Chain - weapon + feats [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Raging_Pacifist View Post
    1. If this is smaller than spiked chain it should deal less damage.
    It does. A spiked chain does 2d4 in medium size, this one only 1d6 in medium size.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raging_Pacifist View Post
    2. Why does this have a reach 9ft.? Reach is in 5ft. increments, and this is smaller than a spiked chain so why does have longer reach and the same damage? More criticism to follow.
    I often mess up with the feet measurements (since I use metres in my country), but even if its shorter, it shold be at least 3m (10ft?), otherwise there is no point in pulling an opponent that is adiacent to you.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Hooked Chain - weapon + feats [PEACH]

    According to the PHB a med. spiked chain only does 1d6 damage and grants an extra 1 square of reach not 2.So a med creature with a sc has 2 square reach. Maybe describe yours as extra slender so it has 2 square reach and can't be used on adjacent foes except to pull them in and make a feat that allows you to attack adj. foes. but keep damage same.
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Hooked Chain - weapon + feats [PEACH]

    Also, since you use metric does 1 metre count as 1square? If so we'll just call it 1 unit.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Hooked Chain - weapon + feats [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Raging_Pacifist View Post
    According to the PHB a med. spiked chain only does 1d6 damage and grants an extra 1 square of reach not 2.So a med creature with a sc has 2 square reach. Maybe describe yours as extra slender so it has 2 square reach and can't be used on adjacent foes except to pull them in and make a feat that allows you to attack adj. foes. but keep damage same.
    Excuse me, but what PH are you using? I have an 3.5 PH right here in my hands as I'm writing this, and says: spiked chain, two handed exotic weapon, 1d6 (Small sized), 2d4 (Medium sized). And has a reach of two squares (that is 3 metres here, equal to 10 feet? or 9? I don't really know).
    My hooked chain has the same reach, 2 squares, does less damage but could be wielded with only one hand. It's actually shorter than the spiked chain, but since you can use it one-handed you can reach 3 metres extending it at his maximum, while with a longer spiked chain you have to keep some of its lenght unusend because you wield it with two hands.
    Therefore, it should be useful to hit adiacent foes.

    In my metric, 1 square is 1,5 metres
    Last edited by Caracol; 2008-02-09 at 04:44 AM.

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    Nebo_'s Avatar

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    Default Re: Hooked Chain - weapon + feats [PEACH]

    My country uses the metric system, too, but our source books still use imperial measurement. 1 square = 5'

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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Hooked Chain - weapon + feats [PEACH]

    One thing to note is that this is very, very similar to the kusari weapon in the DMG under the alternative Asian weapons (a section which is not present in the SRD, to my knowledge). I'm not sure if you're aware of that, as this weapon does have differences, so this is just a heads-up about that.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Hooked Chain - weapon + feats [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by SofS View Post
    One thing to note is that this is very, very similar to the kusari weapon in the DMG under the alternative Asian weapons (a section which is not present in the SRD, to my knowledge). I'm not sure if you're aware of that, as this weapon does have differences, so this is just a heads-up about that.
    I'm aware of existance of the kusarigama in the DMG, but while this weapon looks similar for its appearence, it's designed for different purposes. The whole hooking feature and the feats is the point of using this weapon, and I would like to know your opinion about this in particular.
    Also, I don't really like how the kusarigama is described in the DGM (first is a two handed and not a light weapon, and you absolutely don't use it throwing the small scythe at distance, but the chain part, and use the scythe to attack an adiacent foe, like this) and that's the reason I will probably re-do the it as well.

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  10. - Top - End - #10
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Hooked Chain - weapon + feats [PEACH]

    What does hooking an opponent do exactly? In what direction does it pull him towards? To you? if so, what happens if you hook someone right beside you? wouldn't him being right beside you mean that he could just move towards you slightly to release tension and avoid being hooked? Can you take attacks of opportunities when you're hooking? It makes no sense if you could.
    To summarize: you need to provide more rules on this hooking as it doesn't seem to appear in any sourcebooks so far.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Hooked Chain - weapon + feats [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Uthug View Post
    What does hooking an opponent do exactly? In what direction does it pull him towards? To you? if so, what happens if you hook someone right beside you? wouldn't him being right beside you mean that he could just move towards you slightly to release tension and avoid being hooked? Can you take attacks of opportunities when you're hooking? It makes no sense if you could.
    To summarize: you need to provide more rules on this hooking as it doesn't seem to appear in any sourcebooks so far.
    Mmmmm... you're right. Needs more clarification.
    You pull an opponent towards you. He's pulled for a distance equal to your movement for all the turns he remains hooked.
    An opponent that moves towards you once he's hooked can release the pression and avoid being damaged and pulled, but he still remains hooked, unless he wins the Str check or removes the hook by himself (an action that has a Str check AND causes attack of opportunity.) Since he remains hooked, he can be pulled in the following turn once you move: and that's basically what you have to do to use this weapon properly, continue to move pulling him wherever you want to, keeping the distance from the opponent to avoid his reach. It's logical that if he moves during your turn, he can make this weapon uneffective, but since DnD is turn based, he can move only when your turn is finished, and you'd better decided to move meanwhile. I decided to make it like this: he's forcedto use his movement action to follow you if he fails the Str check and it's pulled, and you still remain out of his reach. You let the opponent reach you and release the pression only if you didn't move in your last action.
    Hooking causes attack of opportunity since is like a called shot on an opponent, but I made a feat specifically to avoid this: once you master it, you don't cause attack of opportunities.
    Anyway, thanks for helping me refining this. Any suggestions on the mechanics or other feats?
    Last edited by Caracol; 2008-02-09 at 09:43 PM.

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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Hooked Chain - weapon + feats [PEACH]

    The hooking feature of this weapon allows for the possibility of an interesting array of tactics, and that is one hallmark of a good exotic weapon. There are a number of things that could still use further explanation, however.

    What happens if a hooked target can't move in your direction (due to obstructions, entanglement, or lack of available movement options, such as in the case of a hooked chain being deployed from above)? Is the rate of damage still constant? What if the opponent refuses to move after losing the opposed Strength check? Is that opponent dragged? Does the hook ever pull itself out, and does this deal extra damage? If an opponent wants to sunder the chain, does it use stats other than that presented for chains in the PHB?

    Also, one can disarm with any given weapon. Does the special mention in the writeup indicate that there are special rules to be applied for disarming? Is there a reason as to why one would drop one's weapon in order to avoid being disarmed of it?

    All in all, this weapon has intriguing possibilities, and is way more fun than the standard chain weapons, but the hooking mechanic could use a bit more in the way of explication.

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Hooked Chain - weapon + feats [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Caracol View Post
    Hooking causes attack of opportunity since is like a called shot on an opponent, but I made a feat specifically to avoid this: once you master it, you don't cause attack of opportunities.
    What I meant when I said whether you can take attacks of opportunity when you're hooking someone is this: when you have already hooked the guy, can you still make attacks of opportunity with the hooked chain? See what I mean?
    Also, you haven't said yet whether the movement of the hooked opponent provokes attacks of opportunity?
    One last question: I thought that there were no called shots in 3.5?
    Thanks.
    Edit: Forgot to ask how if he did not have enough movement on his turn to follow you? Also, when does the opponent "follow" you? On your turn or his?
    Last edited by Uthug; 2008-02-11 at 08:33 AM.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Hooked Chain - weapon + feats [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by SofS View Post
    What happens if a hooked target can't move in your direction (due to obstructions, entanglement, or lack of available movement options, such as in the case of a hooked chain being deployed from above)? Is the rate of damage still constant? What if the opponent refuses to move after losing the opposed Strength check? Is that opponent dragged?
    If the target can't move or refuses to move (like holding himself to something even if he fails the Str check) he takes regular damage. If he oses the Str Check and can't hold himself to something is dragged.

    Quote Originally Posted by SofS View Post
    Does the hook ever pull itself out, and does this deal extra damage? If an opponent wants to sunder the chain, does it use stats other than that presented for chains in the PHB?
    You can unlock the hook as a standard action. When unlocked he deals the base damage of the hook.
    Same stats of a spiked chain for sundering purposes.

    Quote Originally Posted by SofS View Post
    Also, one can disarm with any given weapon. Does the special mention in the writeup indicate that there are special rules to be applied for disarming? Is there a reason as to why one would drop one's weapon in order to avoid being disarmed of it?
    I meant that this weapon gives bonus to disarm. I forgot to tell this, thanks.
    The reason to drop a weapon is to avoid being pulled or tripped. I'll fix the description.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uthug
    What I meant when I said whether you can take attacks of opportunity when you're hooking someone is this: when you have already hooked the guy, can you still make attacks of opportunity with the hooked chain? See what I mean?
    You can't use the weapon again until is unlocked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uthug
    One last question: I thought that there were no called shots in 3.5?
    Thanks.
    When I said called shots I wasn't referring to the called shot mechanics, I was just describing what you do with this weapon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uthug
    Edit: Forgot to ask how if he did not have enough movement on his turn to follow you? Also, when does the opponent "follow" you? On your turn or his?
    Your turn. Since turn are a rapresentation of a "real time" situation, the opponent uses his movement action to follow you during your turn, and when your turn is finished he has already used his movement action. This is a DnDesque rapresentation of an actual situation and avoids the "elastic chain" effect. If the opponent has not enough movement, he's forcerd to use all the action needed until he has reached your movement. If he still doesn't have enough of it, he falls to the ground after a failed Str check against you. If he wins this Str check, youre forced to stop moving.


    Man, this weapon needs more explication that I was expecting!! I think I'll edit it and decribe better the situation and mechanics.

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