New Casting Method

[arkanis]

So why are high-level casters so limited on what low-level spells they can cast? I'd think by higher levels low level spells would become obsolete and useable at will without worry while they'd have less uses of their most powerful spells.

So I devised a new type of spells per day just for simplification:
{table=head]Caster Level | Clr, Drd, Sorc, Wiz | Brd| Pld, Rng
5th level | 0-level spells at will | - | -
10th level | 1st-level spells at will | 0-level spells at will | -
15th level | 2nd-level spells at will | 1st-level spells at will | -
20th level | 3rd-level spells at will | 2nd-level spells at will | 1st-level spells at will[/table]
These calculations do not yet include bonus spells per day, but you would of course add those as well if applicable.

Spells known/learned rules remain the same.

Clerics must make sure that at least 1 of each spell level prepared is from one of their domains.

[Tempest Fennac]

It soundes similar to an idea which is used for the so-called Ultimate varous classes (I'll find some information on them and post the link in this post). It's an interesting idea, but why do Bards get more spells then full casters? Also, some relatively low level spells would be useful for a long time (eg: Mage Armour lasts longer as the caster levels up, healing outside of combat would be really easy, and spamming Haste would possibly unbalance encounters).

EDIT: http://www.liquidmateria.info/wiki/Ultimate_Classes . The Ultimate spellcasters only get up to level 7 spells, so Invocations are presumably used to make up for that to a degree.

[Goober4473]

Magic missile at will at 9th level, right as it gets maxed out missiles?

Honestly spellcasters are powerful enough. I sort of like the idea, but you'd need to limit their power significantly in other ways (maybe max spells at a lower level spell or add some roll involved in casting).

[brian c]

Okay, when a caster has access to 9th level spells, you're saying that they get everything of 5th level and lower at-will.

For Clerics, that includes Plane Shift, Righteous Might and Raise Dead (not to mention healing)

For Sorc/Wiz, that includes Cloudkill, Teleport, Dominate Person, Baleful Polymorph, Stoneskin, Dimension Door, Animate Dead, Enervation, and Polymorph.

[arkanis]

Goober
You bring up a good point. Gaining it at will at the same time it maximizes its caster benefits seems broken, there should be a down time where the "next improvement" once its caster level effectiveness is maxed out it becomes useable at will. That would require spell-by-spell monitoring though. I'm sure prepared casters wouldn't mind.

Brian C
By that time those spells aren't much of a big deal anyway so yeah.

I have a better idea.

[Deathtouched]

I kinda liked this idea, but "at will" is too much power
D&D casters get a lot of spells as it is, if they can get free spells, then they'll basically never run out
Combat with mages would never end because theyd never have to worry about running out, so what would melee classes exist for?

[arkanis]

Right, but also why would casters even CONSIDER running out of cantrips once they're able to cast such powerful things like Storm of Vengeance or Miracle?

So I edited it a bit. I think this new version works. Looking more at it though, it isn't really simplifying anything so I've kinda made a useless alteration, but I think it works nonethless.

[Xyk]

There is the innate spell feat which I don't remember the book. It's metamagic and let's you cast a single spell at will for +8 spell levels. It permanently takes out one 9th level spell per day if it's a first level spell. I don't think your new spellcasting way is balanced. This feat is official and it's waaay less powerful than yours.

[Yeril]

Reminds me alot of the Recharge magic varient. Great in low level games, incredibly overpowered in high level ones.

[arkanis]

Wow, that is a very interesting variant. It wouldn't be so overpowered if it restricted spells specifically by level not just by highest to lowest. Or maybe reduced down time based on level?

(Spell level+1)²/caster level = # of X necessary to wait before casting another spell of that level (round appropriately, minimum 0).
X = rounds for levels 0-2, minutes for levels 3-5, hours for levels 6-8, days for 9+

True though, I am biased towards lower and moderate levels (1-12). I've never been a fan of high level adventures either as a GM or player so I'm sure there may be things I'm leaving out. It was just something to consider.

[Deathtouched]

The table makes more sense now, but the whole thing still seems... off...

Maybe it's just because I've played other games with different magic systems, but having spells at will just seems like too much power, even cantrips

Magic is all about the expenditure of energy, be it mana, psi juice, diety's power, life force, or something else. It's all about equal and opposite reaction. More spells levels means more spells, but if you are able to cast spells without running out... where is the force coming from?

I would think that since D&D casters use a gods power or their own gifts, when they cast spells that don't tire them, they are using another force instead. It can't be their life, or a god, or some other creature, or psi because that's for psychics...

So, I would think that they are sucking power from the very world itself. And the world isn't infinite, so theyd basically be draining it. With each free cantrip a mage casts, a little more of the world dies. If i put something like this in my campaign, it would be for a group of power-hungry mages that would stop at nothing to achieve greater magical powers. I'd have the PCs go to destroy them, so that this earth-draining magic could be lost for all time.

Basically, at will casting is wrong, unless you go against everything magic already is!

[arkanis]

That's a lot of personal ethics there about magic. I wasn't exactly going for "realistic magic" since I don't consider it real myself.

Magic bastardizes the laws of physics to begin with, why bother trying to play it off as a physical law to expend energy? d20 games aren't exactly known for their realism.

Again though, this was just meant to make things easier to keep track of by making one less spell level to worry about. Depending on a DM's preference (high magic or low magic) will determine whether its acceptable or not.

I wouldn't allow this in a low magic campaign myself, but say something like Eberron which seems to pass magic out like water, I would find it acceptable.

[magic_unlocked]

I can definately see this in a High Arcana campaign setting where magic is the bread and butter of the world. Hmm... it makes for an interesting campaign setting where melee characters are almost non-existant. And make up the stuff of legends. I mean, a melee character can survive a fireball without too much HP loss. A pure caster on the other hand, is most likely near death.