Gestalt Warlock Help!

[asphen fox]

I'm supposed to build this Level 5 Gestalt Warlock/Jade Pheonix/Crusader or SwordSage... The DM's changing the rules so that I only need two invocations to qualify for Jade Pheonix so that I can be the Fourteenth of the legendary thirteen. You can use ANY book you like and I'd like to mention that this DM is totally out to kick my party's butt. I would totally appreciate a build that doesn't seem broken but can totally annoy my DM so much. You can use the Champion Set for ability Scores if you want but I'd appreciate pointers on where to put the highest scores I get if ever we roll the scores. I I have the undying stance of the crusader in mind for this build so if you can build a swordsage-warlock based gestalt that gets it in a few levels (Jade pheonix gets devoted spirit as a school anyways O_o if you can get it for me in 5 than that's awesome!) I would be eternally thankful. I've been playing as batman for the past campaigns so I'm not that familiar with meelee(sp?) characters. Please guide me in this build. Thanks very much!

[FlyMolo]

I don't know about swordsage, but go straight Warlock//Spellthief. Steal all your enemies' spells. It's harder to dominate a party when all your monster options that involve spells or SLAs suddenly suck.

[SurlySeraph]

Sorry, I don't know enough about ToB to help much.

If you aren't insistent on that particular build, a Warlock//Rogue would be pretty strong. Use Darkness and that invocation that creates concealing mist to get concealment, then sneak attack for several dozen d6s of damages.

[Draz74]

Well, it sounds like your DM is pretty lenient with PrC rules in Gestalt, if he's allowing Jade Phoenix Mage. If that's the case, I'd say a 2-level Chameleon dip is a great idea for a Gestalt Warlock. That "pick any feat you want" ability means that each day you can pick out a new Invocation with the Extra Invocation feat ... or pick out whatever Item Creation feat you currently want to make good use of your Imbue Item class feature.

It sounds like you're wanting a melee Warlock. So definitely go for the Eldritch Glaive invocation.

Much as I love Warblades, Crusader is almost certainly a better idea in this build. Better discipline synergy with Jade Phoenix Mage, and better ability synergy (Charisma rather than Intelligence) with Warlock.

[Charlie Kemek]

warlock//scout is great, you get a skill-monkey, skirmish & eldritch Blast all at the same time.

[AslanCross]

James> If your DM was serious about killing you, he'd run Tomb of Horrors. Anyway, regarding abilities. If you're using the Champion array and are going to focus on melee instead of eldritch blasts, try these:

Str 18
Dex 8
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 14

If you roll your ability scores, prioritize them as such. If you rethink your build and want to be able to use your eldritch blast decently, you could switch Str and Dex instead, then take Weapon Finesse and take Swordsage instead, focusing on Shadow Hand. Keep in mind Weapon Finesse also boosts eldritch glaive's attack bonus. The eldritch glaive won't benefit much from a high Str.

If you're set on taking Warlock//Crusader, you should pick a weapon that your Devoted Spirit maneuvers would work well with, then probably use your e-glaive while waiting for your maneuvers to replenish.
Remember you don't get the Undying stance until Initiator Level 16 at least, as it's a Lv 8 stance.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Crusader is better than swordsage for you. It has less MAD, though a swordsage has a bit more synergy of abilities. I definitely recommend crusader//warlock though, in which case,
Str 18
Dex 12
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 14
Str, dex, con, and cha are all variable depending on how you plan to play, but str and con can be maxed with no consequences and great melee potential. If you pick no-save invocations, you only need charisma for will saves, and can dump it, boosting dex for Elderich blasts and AC. Your needed dex is based on the armor you choose, but there is a feat that will boost you to no ASF in medium armor, or you could accept a bit of risk.

[triforcel]

Make sure you get the Baleful Utterance invocation. Shattering everything and anything is a easy way to bug your DM.

[Tokiko Mima]

Be sure you pick up Eldritch Glaive (Dragon Magic) Invocation as soon as your BAB is above +5. Since you'll be in melee anyway, it's nice to be able to do two attacks with your full eldritch blast damage as a Reach touch attack, should you chose to.

[asphen fox]

Hmmm.. It seems that I can't pull off a Dex Based Crusader... Let's say I take Weapon Finesse... What weapons can I use as a Crusader so that I don't need to worry about putting points in STR anymore?

[Zincorium]

Hmmm.. It seems that I can't pull off a Dex Based Crusader... Let's say I take Weapon Finesse... What weapons can I use as a Crusader so that I don't need to worry about putting points in STR anymore?

Unarmed strike is the only weapon among the disciplines you have access to that weapon finesse can be used with.

Seriously, crusaders don't do dex-based. A warblade focusing on diamond mind can pull it off, and so can a swordsage, but crusaders just aren't equipped that way.

[asphen fox]

Hmmm... So the swordsage's my best bet then. Can anyone tell me how to prioritize my ability scores as a swordsage/warlock?

[Zincorium]

Hmmm... So the swordsage's my best bet then. Can anyone tell me how to prioritize my ability scores as a swordsage/warlock?

I'd go dex, wis, con, cha, str, int in that order. Charisma is good for a warlock but you can easily get away with a score of 12-14 if you're not relying on save-based invocations (and you have plenty of other good invocations available). Swordsage gives so many bonuses for wisdom you'd be crazy not to prioritize it somewhat.

[asphen fox]

Hmmmm... So by the way the ability scores were prioritized I guess I'm not supposed to get a lot Diamond Mind or Devoted Spirit Maneuvers and Stances... Problem is, Jade Phoenix is Diamond Mind or Devoted Spirit. Now let's say that I'm gonna use the martial adept as primary class... The invocations would be more on buff and Batman stuff... and the Eldritch Blast's more like Sneak attack damage since I'll be using hideous blow mostly with it. How would that turn out then?

[AslanCross]

Hmmmm... So by the way the ability scores were prioritized I guess I'm not supposed to get a lot Diamond Mind or Devoted Spirit Maneuvers and Stances... Problem is, Jade Phoenix is Diamond Mind or Devoted Spirit. Now let's say that I'm gonna use the martial adept as primary class... The invocations would be more on buff and Batman stuff... and the Eldritch Blast's more like Sneak attack damage since I'll be using hideous blow mostly with it. How would that turn out then?

Actually, Jade Phoenix Mage gets Desert Wind and Devoted Spirit. Not Diamond Mind. It really depends on what you want to do. If you want to synergize a lot with Dex-based maneuvers, go Warlock//Swordsage specializing in Shadow Hand. Use finessable weapons like the Short Sword. Again, Weapon Finesse works with touch attacks (Eldritch Glaive) so you won't have problems there. You can still stay Dex-based. (It is important to note, however, that Eldritch Glaive CANNOT be used with a strike, as it's a full-round action. Boosts, however, should work.)

It's a misconception among people who are new to ToB that you absolutely have to stick to only one or two disciplines. It's actually fairly easy to specialize in two disciplines and augment your selection by dipping into other disciplines, at any level, actually---especially with Swordsage. There are some maneuvers that actually have no requirements other than initiator level.

Furthermore, JPM has no discipline-specific requirements. You can take any disciplines early on and just augment your selection with the Devoted Spirit and Desert Wind maneuvers later on.