V:tM - Help me 'tweak' Celerity

[evisiron]

My problem arises in my current Vampire: The Masquerade group, of which I am the only person with previous RPG experience. Most of the game is going well, but a slow thinking (jerkish) player has 2 dots in Celerity. Normally I would be fine with this, but in every combat he uses it and takes a ridiculous amount of time to do his turn, leaving the rest of the players waiting.

So, I decided to alter celerity to speed things up... but an not sure how. I dont mind if it is nerfed a bit, I will give his the chance to reassign the dots and give a few exp points to make up for the nerfage if he stays with it.

Any suggestions?

[Jayngfet]

when in doubt...act like the bastard child of alex wilder and azula, act subtle, over the cource of a few battles use fire, fewer enemies, simpler loot, and then send him off to do something that takes about a month, like meditating or get ability x or summon y, which simplifies things like doing slightly higher damage(shorter battles, also makes him arrogant, this could kill him if too stupid)

[Zincorium]

Something I've actually used at points is to place high-tension steel wires in places where it'd be hard to see them (like the dark, where most vampires are anyway). Enemies who know how evil celerity can be and have 5 dots of intelligence can be forgiven for using this tactic.

People moving at normal speed? Tripping, annoyance.
Person moving 60+ mph under the influence of celerity? Decapitation and limb loss, as shown by the WW2 era motorcycle traps which inspired it.

[Rutee]

when in doubt...act like the bastard child of alex wilder and azula, act subtle, over the cource of a few battles use fire, fewer enemies, simpler loot, and then send him off to do something that takes about a month, like meditating or get ability x or summon y, which simplifies things like doing slightly higher damage(shorter battles, also makes him arrogant, this could kill him if too stupid)

Why do I get the vague feeling this is thinking it's DnD based?

My advice is to use nWoD Celerity, which buffs specific dice pools by your dots in Celerity. I beileve it's Melee and Firearms attack rolls, your Speed, and your Defense..

Edit: It's "You subtract dots in Celerity from all attack rolls against you, adds to Speed, and adds to Initiative.

[Kurald Galain]

Bear in mind that Celerity costs one blood point per turn in second edition, and this was nerfed to one blood point per extra action in third, of the OWOD.

There exist a few things that can counter celerity, including (1) more celerity, (2) Temporis, (3) the Mage Time sphere, (4) a certain Werewolf Ragabash gift that steals powers from people, and (5) a certain talisman that counters "stuff meddling with time".

Why is he taking so long? Perhaps you should houserule that he simply performs the same action three times (e.g. three shots in combat) because that is generally what celerity is used for.

[The White Knight]

Bear in mind that Celerity costs one blood point per turn in second edition, and this was nerfed to one blood point per extra action in third, of the OWOD.

There exist a few things that can counter celerity, including (1) more celerity, (2) Temporis, (3) the Mage Time sphere, (4) a certain Werewolf Ragabash gift that steals powers from people, and (5) a certain talisman that counters "stuff meddling with time".

Why is he taking so long? Perhaps you should houserule that he simply performs the same action three times (e.g. three shots in combat) because that is generally what celerity is used for.

They made a third release of V:tM before nWoD? Wild, I totally missed that.

[Zincorium]

They made a third release of V:tM before nWoD? Wild, I totally missed that.

Vampire: the Masquerade went through so many reprints and revised versions that it really became sort of self-defeating. I believe there were five actual issues of the rules before it all became the new world of darkness, and by then I'd outgrown my gothic teenager stage and stopped playing any of white wolf's RPGs other than Exalted.

Essentially, I think you can be forgiven for not noticing a single rules change.

[Kurald Galain]

Vampire: the Masquerade went through so many reprints and revised versions that it really became sort of self-defeating.

Well, not really. They had a first edition in 1991, a second in 1992 as the game proved popular, and a revised and streamlined third edition in 1998. Werewolf and Mage, likewise but a year later.

Wraith and Changeling were never updated for third edition; Hunter, Mummy, Demon and Orpheus were only released after third edition. The difference between 1st and 2nd ed is mostly layout and cleanup (frankly, 1st edition White Wolf does look rather amateurish); 3rd ed did incorporate numerous changes, tweaks and so forth.

[Culwch]

Instead of letting him take all his actions at once, do it like this:

Everyone's 1st action - this way at least the players won't have to wait until he finishes all his actions.
Celerity action 1 (by initiative, if anyone else has it)
Celerity action 2... etc.

While razor wires are nice, I don't think they should work like that - I don't remember seeing a mention of physics in Celerity. You don't hear sonic booms when a character uses his Celerity 5, nor do you see papers and debris flying everywhere when he moves.

I remember one thing we specifically homeruled was that automatic fire weapons do not function in Celerity - the gun will shoot only so many bullets in the round regardless of how many actions you can take. An exception to this was things like revolvers and shotguns in which it is possible to squeeze bullets out of them faster than at the default fire rate. If a character had a lot of dots in Celerity, he could switch weapon to burst mode, but aim every bullet individually. Not that we ever used guns, melee or combat Disciplines were much more effective.

You can also field an opponent that will be tailored to combat the troublesome player. You can try and stake the player or to light him on fire, you can use caltrops, bolas or a net to immobilize him.

If he takes too much time to ponder, introduce a timer and if he still hasn't decided when the time's up, declare he spent his actions pondering. After all, it's Your game.

If he is so disruptive, you can tell him speed it up or, as a last resort, stop inviting him.

[mostlyharmful]

It's specific in the book I think that celerity granted actions come after the standard set for a round, it certainly is for rage granted and they're essentially the same thing. Anouther way to speed it up is to have him declare what the actions in celerity are GOING to be at the same time as he uses his standard action. The fluff being that it speeds up his body not his mind so he can DO it but he just can't think about it as he does it, It also serves as a semidecent nerf on the power of multiple actions. Ie, If you declare that you're using celerity to take down goon X and by the time your celerity actions are up goonX is gone the way of the dodo then oh well, if the group is up the preverbial fecal course you could bend that to include some level of "adrenaline" provided control of what he does with them but only in a genuine crisis not a mook bash

[Severus]

I'd start by being honest with him as a player that he is taking too long to decide and slowing up the game. then tell him that you will start timing him, and if he doesn't act, you will rule that he "hesitated" in combat and lost his action.

I don't think changing celerity is the fix. I think teaching the player how to be a better player is the fix.

[Maerok]

I think it would be interesting to make a player have to choose his/her actions faster as they use greater levels of Celerity. It seems contrary to the point if you take forever to pick out your actions. 1 dot -> 1 minute, 2 dots -> 45 seconds, 3 dots -> 30 seconds, 4 dots -> 20 seconds, 5 dots -> 10 seconds.

[Kami2awa]

Call of Cthulhu GMs have something really NASTY to use on those who abuse time manipulation mechanics...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hounds_of_tindalos

[Jack_Simth]

My problem arises in my current Vampire: The Masquerade group, of which I am the only person with previous RPG experience. Most of the game is going well, but a slow thinking (jerkish) player has 2 dots in Celerity. Normally I would be fine with this, but in every combat he uses it and takes a ridiculous amount of time to do his turn, leaving the rest of the players waiting.

So, I decided to alter celerity to speed things up... but an not sure how. I dont mind if it is nerfed a bit, I will give his the chance to reassign the dots and give a few exp points to make up for the nerfage if he stays with it.

Any suggestions?

As described, the problem is not celerity; the problem is table protocol - he's not taking his turn in a reasonable timeframe. The solution is simple: Implement a timing rule. A 30 or 60 second timer, say. Use it for everybody. If you haven't already made up your mind what you'll do by the time your turn comes around, you've got X seconds to do so. If anyone asks, it's "to simulate the rush of combat." If you don't decide by the time the timer runs out, you Delay (or does V:tM not have the equivalent to that in D&D?) as you hesitated a bit too long.

[Riffington]

Why is he taking so long? Perhaps you should houserule that he simply performs the same action three times (e.g. three shots in combat) because that is generally what celerity is used for.

I mostly agree. With two dots of celerity, he's not doing some crazy cheese that needs fixed, he's just taking too much time to think. Take away some of that decision-making.

But I'm curious, what kinds of things does he come up with that take so long? Will it really hurt his style if the extra actions have to be dodge, parry, or attack?