Innate Abilites?

[Burley]

Okay, if I wanted to take the Supernatural Transformation feat, which requires an Innate spell-like ability, does that mean that I need to have that ability from my race, or can I get it use the a spell-like ability from a class? The only thing it really does is ignore spell-resistance, which is a big deal, but...still... Class or Race?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Race, template or a class that grants a template that allows you to qualify.

[Burley]

So, a Dragonfire Adept wouldn't work?

Edit: The prerequisites say Innate Spell-like ability, but does the description say that the spell-like ability that you supernaturalize has to be innate? If I play a Gnome DfA, I have the spell-like abilities to qualify for the feat, but could I use the class's spell-like ability as a supernatural ability?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

No, I am afraid not.

[Burley]

Oh...phoohy. Well...fine...I'll just make my own game and my own rules and all abilities will be supernatural and there is not spell resistance and it'llbewaycoolerthananyothergameEVER! Nyah!

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

Actually, Class gained abilities are fair game for Supernatural Transformation.

Innate does not mean pertaining to race, it means an inherent ability. Any non-Item based SLA would work. For example, one of the suggestions for Supernatural Transformation (back when it came out in 3.0) was for Druids to use it on Wildshape (then an SLA, since changed to Supernatural).

Therefore, Dragon Fire Adepts can use it on there, invocations, or Breath Weapon if it isn't already Supernatural.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Actually, Class gained abilities are fair game for Supernatural Transformation.

No.

That should teach me to dig up a reference every single time.

What does “innate spell-like ability” mean for the
purpose of qualifying for the Supernatural Transformation
feat (Savage Species, page 39)? Does the Innate Spell feat
create an innate spell-like ability?

“Innate,” for the purpose of the Supernatural
Transformation feat, means “gained normally as part of the
creature’s race, type, subtype, or kind.”
A duergar’s enlarge person and invisibility spell-like
abilities, a tanar’ri’s summon tanar’ri spell-like ability, and a
juvenile gold dragon’s bless spell-like ability are all “innate”
spell-like abilities. A warlock’s invocations, a paladin’s ability
to call her special mount, and any spell-like abilities gained
from your class, feats, or similar sources are not.
Despite its name, even the Innate Spell feat doesn’t create
an “innate” spell-like ability for the purpose of the Supernatural
Transformation feat. This is simply an unfortunate case of the
same word being used for two different purposes.

[Charity]

Have you been slacking again there Silvanos

tsk tsk

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Have you been slacking again there Silvanos

tsk tsk

Yes, it does happen when I am too busy eating popcorn.

[loopy]

Oh...phoohy. Well...fine...I'll just make my own game and my own rules and all abilities will be supernatural and there is not spell resistance and it'llbewaycoolerthananyothergameEVER! Nyah!

...and we'll have blackjack... and hookers!

[Burley]

...and we'll have blackjack... and hookers!

Dibs on President!

Okay, so, Silvanos: Thanks for the answer and ruining my day.
And, Chosen': Thanks for trying. Brigthened me up a bit...for a little bit. But, FAQ never lies. Except that one time FAQ told me that Acid Splash tastes like Rainbow Candies...

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Okay, so, Silvanos: Thanks for the answer and ruining my day.

Always a pleasure.

[Tokiko Mima]

This still seems wierd to me, what with all the fluff telling you that 'warlocks are born, not made.' How is it that you can at any point add a template with a class or just add a template at any point and that qualifies you, but abilities you are supposed to be born with somehow don't count as innate?

Just to be clear, I know Lord Silvanos reading of RAW is correct, it just seems like the rules themselves are inconsistantly applied here.

[Burley]

This still seems wierd to me, what with all the fluff telling you that 'warlocks are born, not made.' How is it that you can at any point add a template with a class or just add a template at any point and that qualifies you, but abilities you are supposed to be born with somehow don't count as innate?

Just to be clear, I know Lord Silvanos reading of RAW is correct, it just seems like the rules themselves are inconsistantly applied here.

Well, I think it means that that you can't just take a level in Warlock. It's one of the few base classes that require something extra. You have to have some sort of connection to a being more powerful than yourself. The same is true for Dragonfire Adepts, except they strive to be like dragons after being gifted with the skill.
It's just like Sorcerers have the magic 'running through their veins'. Why is it, then, that my spells aren't innate abilities? Because I still have to train and practice to make them better.

I'm totally okay with innate being from race and template stuff only, because, if that's the case, innate abilities NEVER get better. A gnome will never get extra uses of his prestidigitation or speak with animals per day. Things that can get stronger come from training, not from natural giftedness.