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2008-02-26, 09:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- Behind You
- Gender
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2008-02-26, 09:27 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Location
- On Paper
- Gender
Re: How strong is an Epic level commoner?
Epic Level Commoners get accsess to the class ability Ultimate Awsomeness, allowing them to cast WISH as a SLA for no EXP cost.
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2008-02-26, 09:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
- Location
- Orlando, FL
- Gender
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2008-02-26, 09:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Location
- On Paper
- Gender
Re: How strong is an Epic level commoner?
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2008-02-26, 09:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
- Location
- West Midlands, UK.
Re: How strong is an Epic level commoner?
Do they even get any class features beyond the pathetic HD, BAB, 2 skill points/level and feats from levels?
"It doesn't matter what you think I'm supposed to be, 'cause I myself know all too well." Line from "King of My World" by Saliva.
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2008-02-26, 09:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
- Location
- :: Maniacal laugh ::
- Gender
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2008-02-26, 09:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
- Location
- West Midlands, UK.
Re: How strong is an Epic level commoner?
Good point (technically, it would cease to be a level 21 Commoner, though).
"It doesn't matter what you think I'm supposed to be, 'cause I myself know all too well." Line from "King of My World" by Saliva.
Good itP 2009 winner,Cleric itP Winner.
Taking Reiki requests. PM me for details.Spoiler
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2008-02-26, 09:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
- Location
- Orlando, FL
- Gender
Re: How strong is an Epic level commoner?
Or you could make him a level 6 Commoner with the Paragon Template. Nothing says lovin' like +29 to AC, +25 to Attack, +20 to damage and DR 10/Epic.
(Adds +15 to the CR... so you may be able to squeeze out a few more commoner levels actually...)
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2008-02-26, 09:55 AM (ISO 8601)
Re: How strong is an Epic level commoner?
Hmm...a 21st level Adept might be able to bother some PCs. Not very high level ones, but mid-range.
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2008-02-26, 10:12 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Gender
Re: How strong is an Epic level commoner?
Well, the only thing that a Commoners got going for him are skills. That is the only aspect of him that is no different that a PC, skill use. Max ranks in Handle Animal, and by lvl 21 he should be able to use his actions to command all sorts of Circus performances. "Bobo! Go for the throat!" Other than that, his low HP, crappy saves, and non-existant class features means Game Over when confronted by a PC of equal level. An epic commoner might pose some problems for a 10th level PC, but only if it wasn't a primary spell caster... Or even able to cast spells... Or um, maybe he'd pose a threat for a lvl 10 Fighter/Barbarian... Or maybe not...
"I am bleeding, making me the victor!" - Wimp Lo, 'Kung Pow'
"Nonsense! I would never do such a thing unless you were already having been going to do that!" - Professor Hubert Farnsworth A, 'Futurama'
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2008-02-26, 10:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
Re: How strong is an Epic level commoner?
Give the epic guy vow of poverty. That gives some nasty looking benifits.
Coupled with as many combat orientated feats he can apply to his quaterstaff...For the last time, it stands for Shadow of Darkness!
Thankin' Nevitan fer me babytar!
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2008-02-26, 10:33 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
- Location
- Orlando, FL
- Gender
Re: How strong is an Epic level commoner?
Vow of Poverty Paragon Commoner.
That's just wrong.
But... oh so right...
:)
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2008-02-26, 10:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2006
- Location
- You know Bosco?!
Re: How strong is an Epic level commoner?
You forget, an Epic Commoner has all the epic WBL associated with pure epicness.
No 10th level party is going to be able to touch Joe when he's tricked out with phat loot."So Marbles, why do they call you Marbles?"
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2008-02-26, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Derby, UK
- Gender
Re: How strong is an Epic level commoner?
I once threw a 20th level Expert at a party of level 5s. He was granted, old, but they still kicked the crap out of him in short order.
Remember, an Epic level Commoner is still only CR 10-11 (at best).
Epic WLB sucks. A 21st level commoner has slightly less gear than a 16th level character (which isn't enough to be all that dangerous). At higher Epic levels, Epic NPC's can't actually afford to have gear even approaching what the PCs have (epic weapons, for example).
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2008-02-26, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- Brazil
- Gender
Re: How strong is an Epic level commoner?
Can an NPC class even have the same WBL that a PC have?
And considering the abilities that the commoner have, he's similar to a 10th level warrior. Not 10th level fighter, warrior. He'll have 20d4 HP, and a +10/+5 BAB. He'll have to spend 5 feats to be marginally equal to a warrior in equipment (1 for any martial weapon, or get the use simple weapon feat, to use all simple weapons, 3 for all armors, and 1 for shield).
Yeah, commoners were NOT meant to be battle types. If a commoner constantly gets into battles, he would start to multiclass at least into warrior, unless he insists into keeping his "pacific ways". "Don't be silly, there's no way the orcs will attack by the 134th time. I'm not wasting time learning how to wield a sword and wear armor. I have shores to attend, ya know."
Member of the Hinjo fan club. Go Hinjo!
"In Soviet Russia, the Darkness attacks you."
"Rogues not only have a lot more skill points, but sneak attack is so good it hurts..."
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2008-02-26, 11:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
- Norn Iron
- Gender
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2008-02-26, 11:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
Re: How strong is an Epic level commoner?
A level 1 paragon commoner...
Is it really CR 16?
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2008-02-26, 11:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
- Location
- Orlando, FL
- Gender
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2008-02-26, 12:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- Behind You
- Gender
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2008-02-26, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Location
- Under the Iron Gauntlet
- Gender
Re: How strong is an Epic level commoner?
An epic adept who picks up Epic Spellcasting can be a fair ammount of trouble, but an epic commoner will always lose the Game.
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2008-02-26, 12:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
Re: How strong is an Epic level commoner?
The epic level commoner is very strong. He has Epic Leadership and the like, what else do you need?
And epic adept doesn't qualify for epic spellcasting. You need 9th level spells. Though, if it did, it'd be almost exactly as strong as every other epic spellcaster.Last edited by Squash Monster; 2008-02-26 at 12:47 PM.
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2008-02-26, 12:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Location
- Montréal
- Gender
Re: How strong is an Epic level commoner?
Epic level Warriors are almost as good as Fighters, at half the CR!
For a good time: Make your level 15 group fight a level 34 warrior as a boss, possibly with a few barbarian levels (replace 2 warrior levels with 1 barbarian one). Don't give it epic feats, as that's just silly, but that's a lot of BAB (if you don't treat it as an epic character it still gets full, like a vermin or dragon).
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2008-02-26, 01:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Location
- Dat Shoggoth
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2008-02-26, 04:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: How strong is an Epic level commoner?
Well, if you take an intelligent creature with epic HD, commoner levels would always be unassociated - so a 20 HD, CR 20 dragon with 18 levels of Commoner tacked on would be CR 29. That has some potential, though obviously for NPC's, not PC's.
Last edited by Indon; 2008-02-26 at 04:09 PM.
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2008-02-26, 04:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- Somewhere you're not
- Gender
Re: How strong is an Epic level commoner?
I'm not 100% sure of this but I think I read somewhere that after a certain number of unassociated class levels the unassociated class starts counting as an associated class, in that case these dirty little tricks wouldn't work.
Edit:
Originally Posted by SRDLast edited by Fenix_of_Doom; 2008-02-26 at 04:24 PM.