Fleshwarpers...

[SamTheCleric]

The Fleshwarper (from Lords of Madness) does not require you to be evil, just non-lawful. How would someone reasonably make a PC out of this without pushing the envelope with fellow PCs around the table?

Is it viable? (both "fluff" and "crunch" as it were)

[SurlySeraph]

If you're Chaotic Good and can get a good Disguise check so that the Cuthbertites don't notice that you have chunks of undead and illithids attached to your body, then it's viable. It's weird and would require quite a backstory to justify, but it's viable.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Ah, the Fleshwarper. Requires you have a few ranks (4?) in Heal, as well as the Graft Flesh feat (which requires some 16 ranks in Heal as a prereq.) I don't think the designers were paying attention to that when they made it...

It really is a pain to qualify for. What's the fastest method?

[Chronos]

It really is a pain to qualify for. What's the fastest method?

The trick would be to get the feat as soon as possible after you get the Heal ranks. I don't think there's any way to get more than level +3 ranks in any skill, so that means level 13. Ordinarily, one would then have to wait two more levels to have a feat slot to use, but that's where class bonus feats come in. Off the top of my head, you could take Human Paragon 1 (with Heal as your Adaptive Learning skill) / X 2 / Rogue 10, and then use your level 10 rogue special ability to pick up the feat, but I don't know if there are any other requirements for Fleshwarper. The Able Learner feat would also let you keep Heal as a class skill (so long as it's on one of your class lists), and Loremaster could also get the bonus feat in time if you have a decent Int (opening up the possibility of cleric or bard into Loremaster, if there's also a spellcasting requirement).

[Iku Rex]

You only need 10 ranks of heal for the Graft Flesh feat.

[SamTheCleric]

Yeah, 10 ranks for the feat... and heal isnt a wizard or sorcerer class skill... which makes this much more difficult (and requiring some multiclassing)

[Mr. Friendly]

Other things to bear in Mind...

You have to be able to summon a familiar..

You can only make Undead and Beholder Grafts... Unless you are one of the other types and can then make those types of Grafts.

Now, bearing that in mind, I am not sure if there is a sidebar that talks about it or not, since it requires that you are, for example, an illithid and not an Abberation (illithid), for illithid grafts, potentially one could take the illithid heritage feat....

In any event, I think your best bet is to go Human Sorcerer5/Human Paragon2 - at that point you could either finish out Paragon and get the stat bonus (since it also advances spellcasting) or go straight into Fleshwarper.

[SamTheCleric]

There's also the Silithar grafts... which I think are bug-like things (hooray chitinous skin!)

That is a good possibility (the paragon thing) ... I wonder if there are any arcane PrCs that have heal as a class skill... o_O

[The Glyphstone]

Fleshwarper is Awesome. And Epic. And Win.

(If you can't tell, one of my all-time favorite characters ever was a Fleshwarper...)

@Mr. Friendly: Actually, it's a lot easier than that...the Fleshwarper has a class feature he gets every 2-3 levels, that lets him choose a particular type of graft (Illithid, Fiendish, Yuan-ti, etc.) and forever be able to make grafts of that type even if he isn't a creature of that type, without even having to spend another feat slot on Graft Flesh.

Good thing, too, because Beholder grafts are stupid. The Fiendish ones are generally very useful and relatively cheap...they just have a nasty side effect of slowly driving you insane...Silithar ones are the best, but also the most expensive.

And if you're playing a Fleshwarper, make sure to take the crafting feats from the Ebberon books and apply them to Graft Flesh for the XP/GP reductions. But, refuse to acknowledge the existence of Magic of Ebberon, because it renders the Fleshwarper class itself utterly useless (by capping your total grafts and restricting you to grafts of a single type).

[SamTheCleric]

Would the Familiar is an Outsider (from Alienist) and Familiar is an Aberration (from Fleshwarper)... stack with one another... I would think that the Outsider type would get replaced making Alienist a poor lead in...

I'm just considering my angles.... I want to make an interesting character that has options when it comes to the mechanics.

[Mr. Friendly]

Fleshwarper is Awesome. And Epic. And Win.

(If you can't tell, one of my all-time favorite characters ever was a Fleshwarper...)

@Mr. Friendly: Actually, it's a lot easier than that...the Fleshwarper has a class feature he gets every 2-3 levels, that lets him choose a particular type of graft (Illithid, Fiendish, Yuan-ti, etc.) and forever be able to make grafts of that type even if he isn't a creature of that type, without even having to spend another feat slot on Graft Flesh.

Good thing, too, because Beholder grafts are stupid. The Fiendish ones are generally very useful and relatively cheap...they just have a nasty side effect of slowly driving you insane...Silithar ones are the best, but also the most expensive.

And if you're playing a Fleshwarper, make sure to take the crafting feats from the Ebberon books and apply them to Graft Flesh for the XP/GP reductions. But, refuse to acknowledge the existence of Magic of Ebberon, because it renders the Fleshwarper class itself utterly useless (by capping your total grafts and restricting you to grafts of a single type).

Oh yeah, I forgot the whole point of this was going for Fleshwarper. Der.

Anyway, mentioning Eberron brings up a great point.. is there a way to do a lead in with Artificer, maybe? I don't know Artificers well enough to know their range of abilites, but since Fleshwarping falls under the field of magic item creation....

[Iku Rex]

Graft Flesh:
Fiend Folio has aboleth, beholder, fiendish, ilithid, maug (constructs), undead and yuan-ti grafts.
Libris Mortis has undead grafts.
Lords of Madness has aboleth, ilithid and silthilar grafts.


Some other books have grafts as well, with separate feats. A DM may let you pick those feats with Graft Mastery if you meet the requirements. These new grafts have silly rules about sticking to one type of graft and limiting you to five grafts. They also require a "sacrifice" of some sort - typically HP.

Faiths of Eberron has construct grafts.
Magic of Eberron has deathless, elemental and plant grafts.
Races of the Dragon has draconic grafts.

***

The (Red) Dragon Familiar feat (lv 12) from Draconomicon + Aberrant Familiar can make a pretty badass familiar.

Loremaster is a good way to get the necessary ranks in heal.

[Illiterate Scribe]

Faiths of Eberron has construct grafts.
Magic of Eberron has deathless, elemental and plant grafts.
Races of the Dragon has draconic grafts.

ECS has Daelkyr grafts.

[SamTheCleric]

Loremaster is a good way to get the necessary ranks in heal.

Wow, I didnt even think of loremaster... That may work... Though feats may be a problem. 3 Metamagic/Item Creation Feats, Skill Focus and Graft Flesh...

This is a puzzler.

[Iku Rex]

ECS has Daelkyr grafts.

No it doesn't. It has 3 "symbionts" - basically living magic items - and they're not the same as grafts. There are no rules for making them as a PC.

[Illiterate Scribe]

No it doesn't. It has 3 "symbionts" - basically living magic items - and they're not the same as grafts. There are no rules for making them as a PC.

Oh whoops - they're nearly the same though, just detachable.

[Iku Rex]

Though feats may be a problem. 3 Metamagic/Item Creation Feats, Skill Focus and Graft Flesh...

Wizards get Scribe Scroll (item creation) on level 1 and a bonus feat on level 5. So you only need two more feats to qualify for loremaster. Not a problem.

It's really hard to get Graft Flesh before level 9 without losing a caster level. The only way I can think of is to be a loremaster with a +7 Int modifier at level 8 (starting 18, +2 race, +2 levels, +2 item) and pick the feat secret. If you can't pull that off, you may as well get a couple of loremaster levels and accept that you won't be able to take fleshwarper until level 10.

[SamTheCleric]

I'm fine waiting till level 10... I'm just trying to come up with a flavorful and effective way to do it.

Would the loss of 5 familiar levels be worth it? (since it seems like the familiar is a big part of a fleshwarper)

[Iku Rex]

5 familiar levels? You can't get loremaster until character level 8 (requires 10 ranks), so at worst you lose two levels. Still, now that you mention it, it may be better to just get the one loremaster level to keep familiar advancement. It's not a big deal though. The familiar abilities are mostly flavor unless you really put some effort into getting a tougher familiar.

[SamTheCleric]

Hmm.

Wizard 7/Loremaster 3/Fleshwarper 10 ?

Familiar as a 17th level wizard... 19 levels of casting... It COULD work.

[SamTheCleric]

Hmm, While doing the build... which comes first a class ability or purchasing ranks in skills?

For Instance... I take my first level of loremaster and my secret is Instant Mastery, I get 4 ranks in a skill that I previously had none. Could I apply that to Heal and then spend that level's skill points into heal on top of that?

[Person_Man]

Fluff: Victor Frankenstein. You're Neutral. Your parents died when you were young. You are enamored with science/magic, and pushing the envelope on your creations. But you still care about your friends and a few remaining family members. Play up the struggle between your pursuit of knowledge and your desire to be accepted. For example, although your body might be covered in grafts, you go to elaborate lengths to disguise it from others. Very few people have fully seen your "true" form, and those who have are dead.

Crunch: You'll have 19/20 casting, so you'll be fine. Everything beyond that is just cake. If you need to get the Heal Skill on your list without multi-classing, you can take Draconic Heritage (Gold). Though you should be able to get it through a PrC too.

[Mr. Friendly]

Hmm, While doing the build... which comes first a class ability or purchasing ranks in skills?

For Instance... I take my first level of loremaster and my secret is Instant Mastery, I get 4 ranks in a skill that I previously had none. Could I apply that to Heal and then spend that level's skill points into heal on top of that?

I believe so, yes. As far as I know it goes Class Abilities -> Skills -> Feats check your PHB though or the DMG for a section about leveling your character up.

[SamTheCleric]

Person_Man: I really like that... staying hidden from society, but still being a part of society... focused on the hybridization of science and magic.

Mr. Friendly: If that's the case... Here's what I've got...

Race is undecided as of right now... Focus entirely on Int>Dex>Con

Spoiler

Show

1 - Wizard - Skill Focus (Knowledge [Dungeoneering]), Scribe Scroll
2 - Wizard
3 - Wizard - Empower Spell
4 - Wizard
5 - Wizard - Ocular Spell (fun and flavorful!)
6 - Wizard - ???
7 - Wizard
8 - Loremaster - Secret: Instant Mastery (4 ranks in heal)
9 - Loremaster - Graft Flesh
10 - Loremaster - Secret: Lore of True Stamina (+2 Fort save)
11-20 - Fleshwarper - Don't know what feats would fit.

[Burley]

Just a question about the Fleshwarper, since it sounds cool and I wanna know if it's worth finding a copy of Lords of Madness:
Are there restrictions on what you can graft? Dragon Magic does have Dragon Grafts, and there are fiendish grafts, like said before, but could you graft animal parts onto yourself (please...no imagination here) or maybe angelic or fey parts?
Edit: What about mechanical parts, or just plain metal skin? I'm playing a character who dreams of building a fully functional clockwork dragon that he can ride in, like a MechSuit.

[SamTheCleric]

I don't see why you couldnt come up with Angelic Grafts or Fey Grafts... there just isn't anything statted for them...

But I wouldnt put it past some creative people to just rename the various grafts in place and make them come from other sources.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Grafts are like built-in non-magical magic items. They are non-removable, generally come with a slight drawback, and are drawn from a list at the back of LoM, among others. Otherwise, they are treated similarly to magic items, other than I don't know if they have custom crafting rules.

[Iku Rex]

I believe so, yes. As far as I know it goes Class Abilities -> Skills -> Feats.

Nope. You get class abilities last. PHB page 58-59.

[Iku Rex]

Dragon Magic does have Dragon Grafts, and there are fiendish grafts, like said before, but could you graft animal parts onto yourself (please...no imagination here) or maybe angelic or fey parts?

Draconic grafts are in Races of the Dragon. I listed the other graft types above.

Edit: What about mechanical parts, or just plain metal skin? I'm playing a character who dreams of building a fully functional clockwork dragon that he can ride in, like a MechSuit.

Sounds like a DM-allowed modified effigy (a construct template from Complete Arcane).

[SamTheCleric]

Nope. You get class abilities last. PHB page 58-59.

Well, that makes it more difficult but not impossible. Just means I need to invest in Heal from the get-go.