Online Roleplaying Woes

[Aron Times]

I play D&D online mainly through the Neverwinter Nights series and occasionally through OpenRPG and similar virtual tabletops. That said, my experiences with online roleplaying have been really, really bad.

I've tried numerous servers, but these five are the worst offenders:

1. An NWN1 Roleplaying Server - A bunch of evil PCs lure my character to a vampire's lair and gets him killed. A DM rules that this is perfectly acceptable behavior on the evil PCs part, which means that I just wasted all the time I spent roleplaying the character. Oh, and when I cry foul, I get banned from the server.

2. Another NWN1 Roleplaying Server - My character gets robbed of all his equipment twice, but the DMs don't do anything about it because "I should have been more careful".

3. An IRC Roleplaying Server - The DM was kind of delusional and most of the players were do-nothing drama queens.

4. An NWN2 Roleplaying Server - None of the players bother to roleplay, and one of them even offers to take me to the higher-level dungeons so I can leech XP off him.

5. Another NWN2 Roleplaying Server - I get accused of a wide range of offenses, and the DMs ban me without giving me a warning or asking for my side of the story. This was very disappointing because this was the best roleplaying server I have ever encountered ever.

Anyway, I was wondering if you guys have had better luck than me in online roleplaying. I've been burned so many times that I'm thinking about never roleplaying online again. I guess people can be meaner when they never see you in person.

So, should I try my luck with another server, or should I go back to face-to-face roleplaying?

[mp122984]

Well, I'm still a novice at this stuff, but personal experience tells me that what matters more is that you find a group you enjoy playing with, whether on the table or online. Although based on what you've said, you might want to find a place where the dm and rest of the group is someone you can talk to, as opposed to people who don't have any real reason to care about your enjoyment.

Myself, I've been lucky enough to have found a really great L5R group I've played with for a long time. Even with only two other players at the moment, it's still something I look forward to every week.

[Artanis]

It sounds like you're playing online and just hooking up with random people to play with, who (evidently) tend to turn out to be a******s. You should try getting into a group you trust, and then going online with them.

[Solo]

I play D&D online mainly through the Neverwinter Nights series and occasionally through OpenRPG and similar virtual tabletops. That said, my experiences with online roleplaying have been really, really bad.

I've tried numerous servers, but these five are the worst offenders:

1. An NWN1 Roleplaying Server - A bunch of evil PCs lure my character to a vampire's lair and gets him killed. A DM rules that this is perfectly acceptable behavior on the evil PCs part, which means that I just wasted all the time I spent roleplaying the character. Oh, and when I cry foul, I get banned from the server.

2. Another NWN1 Roleplaying Server - My character gets robbed of all his equipment twice, but the DMs don't do anything about it because "I should have been more careful".

3. An IRC Roleplaying Server - The DM was kind of delusional and most of the players were do-nothing drama queens.

4. An NWN2 Roleplaying Server - None of the players bother to roleplay, and one of them even offers to take me to the higher-level dungeons so I can leech XP off him.

5. Another NWN2 Roleplaying Server - I get accused of a wide range of offenses, and the DMs ban me without giving me a warning or asking for my side of the story. This was very disappointing because this was the best roleplaying server I have ever encountered ever.

Anyway, I was wondering if you guys have had better luck than me in online roleplaying. I've been burned so many times that I'm thinking about never roleplaying online again. I guess people can be meaner when they never see you in person.

So, should I try my luck with another server, or should I go back to face-to-face roleplaying?

Advice:

1. Make sure you're not playing with *******s.
1a. Leave the server if it turns out that you are.

2. Make sure that you are not an ******* yourself.
2a. Make sure that you are not coming off as an *******.


3. Ask about the GitP roleplaying groups and Internet gaming groups.

4. ???

5. Profit.

[Tengu]

Most NWN roleplaying servers are crap where evil characters are free to do as they want, thieves will rob you of all your equipment for giggles, it's hard to do anything unless you lick the DMs' arses and most people are drama queens. The best NWN1 server I played on banned stealing and evil characters, and the best NWN2 one has no pvp.

Also, I second Solo. Especially point four three.

[BlackandGold]

Sorry to say that, but from my Experience, Roleplaying in MMORPG is nearly impossible. There are almost only two different Versions of "Roleplayers":

1. The Sitcom-Variant. Very dialogue-heavy, but these are very shallow and normally lead only to "Oh, I love you so much" "I you too" and so on.

2. The Beancounter-Variant. There the People will discuss, which Socks your Avatar wears and will make ridiculous rulings for more realistic "Roleplaying". For example, in a UO-Freeshard, they ruled, you cannot run in Plate Armor. No "Only for short Distances" or so. When I wrote on the Forum about my Real-World-Experience with metal armor (Larp in Germany is more like SCA), they put their collective Heads in their Butts and tried to ignore me.

My Conclusion is: Only a very small Group of People can use the Internet for proper Roleplaying. The A***-Quota is really high, so look for the few people, with whom you CAN play.

[Tengu]

That's a very real observation, but NWN isn't an MMO.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Aye, it's a SSMORPG (Small Scale Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game).

[Maxymiuk]

Between the three campaigns I've GM-ed and two I've been in as a player on OpenRPG I've dealt with some 40-odd people. From those more than half were flaky and unreliable - frequently missing games, making a character but never showing up/quitting after one session, or never bothering to contact me again after declaring a desire to play in the game. A dozen or so were decent - they made up the core of the group, showed up regularly, but didn't stand out.
Then there were three I'd invite to game with me in a heartbeat. Not necessarily letter-perfect on the rules, but excellent roleplayers who understood that a tabletop game is about give and take - that the more a player contributes, the more the GM can give back in turn. Sadly, we either lost contact or our schedules diversed to the point of making scheduling a timeslot impossible.
There was also one drama hog. He was duly read the Riot Act, and upon showing no improvement promptly given The Boot.

So I can say that my experience with online tabletop was mostly positive. There are good people out there. You just have to find them.
And yes, these here forums would be a good start.

[ColdBrew]

I gotta say, if you can find the right group of people in IRC, and have a few decent scripts to smooth things out, it can be just as fun as tabletop roleplaying. Even moreso, since some people really seem to open up to RP when they can hide behind a monitor and type. I guess it's the idea of not looking silly in person, but some of the best RP I've ever seen was in a long distance text format.

[Aron Times]

An update on "Another NWN2 Roleplaying Server"... I asked the DMs to let me see the evidence against me, but they denied my request. Apparently, I might harass the ones who reported me. Not letting the accused tell his side of the story is bad, and not telling him exactly what he is guilty of is even worse.

I guess that's what happens when your server is the largest server in all categories.

Anyway, thanks for the advice. I've decided to stay away from online roleplaying right now. Currently, I'm having fun with Magic: The Gathering Online and Defense of the Ancients (Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne).

[Grey Paladin]

You just need to find the correct server for your playstyle, which can be difficult.

Here's a hint: the more popular a server is, the higher the number of your average internet users playing on it>>>idiots.

[Lolth]

Can try us, we're chat-based, not MMORPG (or however the acronym goes), have multiple DMs (and always looking for more good ones) and are pretty active.

Hope to see you around!

[Titanium Dragon]

Different roleplaying servers have different rules. In some worlds, evil PCs are allowed to be evil, good PCs are allowed to be good, and it is pretty free-form within the world - you can do what you want as long as you remain in character. There's nothing at all wrong with a world where evil PCs can trick your character into coming to a cave, then kill you and steal all your gear. Nothing at all. However, if you don't LIKE that world, then you shouldn't play there. Don't whine about their rules; obviously if a lot of people are playing there then they DO like the rules and are willing to abide by them. Remember, you don't own the server, they do. You're under no obligation to play there.

If you want to find a good server for NWN (say), what you need to do is go look at the servers and their rules online on their websites. Read their rules, understand them, and ask questions. If you just log in without reading the rules, not only are you likely to break those rules but you're likely to annoy people, and indeed you're likely to waste your time if you don't like the rules. The simple solution is not to play in a world where you don't like the rules.

I've played in hardcore NWN servers, where you could do whatever you wanted, and it was okay, but not quite my cup of tea - not due to the unlimited character interactions but due to permadeath.

The NWN servers I preferred had some penalties for dying, with varying levels of severity - one would take away some xp and leave your body to loot, another forced you to walk back to town as a zombie and get raised from the dead (which, while not all that annoying in terms of game-penalty was a pretty big discouragement - if you died, you'd spend 5-10 minutes hiking back and another few getting raised). The idea was to discourage people from dying but not prevent them from RPing further with the same characters.

One server had a stricter PvP policy than the other, but really, its ultimately pretty self-sustaining. On one of them, you could loot people you killed as much as you liked, but there was something of a gentleman's agreement - while people killed each other all the time, because people came back to life it could have severe consequences and IC friends could gang up on you and probably kill you, so dry-looting was not a good idea in the long-run. Sometimes people would do it as punishment, but it generally wouldn't last very long. I played a bandit on that server, and it was a lot of fun playing outside the normal gentleman's agreement, but eventually it got boring as we were winning too much, and in the end the group dispersed and things went back to normal. Killing each other was perfectly allowed, but there were in-game consequences, ranging from being attacked by guards to other characters, so it was dangerous in its own ways.

The other server had full PvP but people seldom killed each other because the community was small so everyone had to deal with everyone else from time to time, and bitter emnity made dealing with other people in camp much harder.

Both also had a great deal of IC/OOC segregation; people my characters were enemies with often liked me as a player, and vice-versa, and some players I couldn't stand OOC I could deal with fine IC. I think that is at least in part key to a successful server - if players get mad over IC actions OOC (as you seem to do) then you need to play on PvPless servers where such things are less likely to occur. It will make you and everyone else a lot happier.

My advice is to read on websites and ask questions, and people will tell you whether or not you'll be a good fit.

[Aron Times]

Can try us, we're chat-based, not MMORPG (or however the acronym goes), have multiple DMs (and always looking for more good ones) and are pretty active.

Hope to see you around!

I just signed up, and I'm waiting to be approved. So, what can you tell me about your campaign setting?

[Tengu]

Different roleplaying servers have different rules. In some worlds, evil PCs are allowed to be evil, good PCs are allowed to be good, and it is pretty free-form within the world - you can do what you want as long as you remain in character. There's nothing at all wrong with a world where evil PCs can trick your character into coming to a cave, then kill you and steal all your gear. Nothing at all. However, if you don't LIKE that world, then you shouldn't play there. Don't whine about their rules; obviously if a lot of people are playing there then they DO like the rules and are willing to abide by them. Remember, you don't own the server, they do. You're under no obligation to play there.

Except that it encourages people to act like total di**s towards others, while having the excuse "that's because I'm playing an evil character".

[Kizara]

An update on "Another NWN2 Roleplaying Server"... I asked the DMs to let me see the evidence against me, but they denied my request. Apparently, I might harass the ones who reported me. Not letting the accused tell his side of the story is bad, and not telling him exactly what he is guilty of is even worse.

I guess that's what happens when your server is the largest server in all categories.

Anyway, thanks for the advice. I've decided to stay away from online roleplaying right now. Currently, I'm having fun with Magic: The Gathering Online and Defense of the Ancients (Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne).

What server you play on? (DotA)

I'm pretty active and used to be really involved with the scene. Stop by Clan WDL on west sometime and ask for Starfires. Alternately, stop by Tkx and ask for Star_Moon. (Tkx is my main team, but WDL is much more active)

[Aron Times]

What server you play on? (DotA)

I'm pretty active and used to be really involved with the scene. Stop by Clan WDL on west sometime and ask for Starfires. Alternately, stop by Tkx and ask for Star_Moon. (Tkx is my main team, but WDL is much more active)

I play on US East, and my nickname is Chachamaru.

[Xuincherguixe]

Yeah, that's pretty bad stuff. You deserve more respect than that.

I like evil and all, but not when it's used as an excuse to be a jerk. NPCs should be the victims. The difference here is that you're only playing a jerk. Evil Campaigns can work, but it's a bad idea online. If it's not a roleplaying server though, it's not such a big deal.


Power tripping admins are never fun, and people who are nice will get driven away fast.

That being said, if you give anything like this another shot I vote test the waters out before getting too emotionally attached to any of your characters. And remember, you can always reuse character concepts. Especially if they go out in particularly lame ways.

[Grey Paladin]

Except that it encourages people to act like total di**s towards others, while having the excuse "that's because I'm playing an evil character".

No, the 'excuse' is "I'm a bandit, I care little for the lives of others and am greedy, and thus I have chosen this profession"

[Kizara]

No, the 'excuse' is "I'm a bandit, I care little for the lives of others and am greedy, and thus I have chosen this profession"

Yea and having everyone do that is really conductive to character development.

Cause I really want to RP someone that gets mugged and killed, that was totally my character direction.

[Tengu]

No, the 'excuse' is "I'm a bandit, I care little for the lives of others and am greedy, and thus I have chosen this profession"

Doesn't matter. It's still just an excuse to ruin other players' fun.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Or create climatic rivalry. It only sucks if the killed guy is a loser and you didn't do it with style.

[Tengu]

I fail to see anything climatic or any potential for rivalry in someone killing a guy several levels underneath him (because such people practically never prey on equals when it comes to power) and taking his stuff, or abusing pickpocketing to steal everything he had. It's just frustrating for the victim and nothing more.

[Azerian Kelimon]

You see, I'm not talking about THAT kind of player. One can play a cool bandit without being an idiot.

[Tengu]

But that almost never happens. And most roleplaying NWN servers have harsh penalties for dying and slow experience gain from killing monsters, so dying is very frustrating anyway.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Yeah, I know that. Point is, players who can do a concept like that exist. Sadly, there must be only 2 or three who play NWN.

[Grey Paladin]

Conflict is the heart of any roleplaying server, if you got yourself killed in a damp cave somewhere you are screwed as there will be no consequences for the killers, this is exactly why traveling alone is dangerous and you should never do so, if even one non-corporative witness escapes successfully and proves the guilt of the bandits a bounty will usually go up and the killers are pretty much screwed as they get AOS in all nearby towns and are forced to move to survive.

NWN servers aren't like normal D&D in the sense that you can, indeed, lose- but the roleplaying is vastly superior because the world doesn't actively rearranges itself to fit the needs of few, and actual cunning and skill are often required to solve problems.

Of course, all this doesn't applies if the server itself is ran by morons, like most popular servers that have a playerbase over 50-200

[Tengu]

Conflict is the heart of any roleplaying server,

Yes - conflict between players and DM-run NPCs. DND mechanics are not balanced for PVP and NWN is a game that not only does little to fix that, but also has many abusable elements on its own. The only PVP elements I can understand are when both parties willingly engage in the battle, which is not the case in ganking.

NWN servers aren't like normal D&D in the sense that you can, indeed, lose- but the roleplaying is vastly superior because the world doesn't actively rearranges itself to fit the needs of few, and actual cunning and skill are often required to solve problems.

I really hope you're being ironic here. Because of the limitations of the world and a DM not being around all the time to react to players' actions, roleplaying in NWN, MUDs or any other similar online games will never be as good as having a good DM. And those cunning and skills more often than not just mean "having a high level and superior pvp build".

Of course, all this doesn't applies if the server itself is ran by morons, like most popular servers that have a playerbase over 50-200

Trust my experience, small servers can be full of idiots too - and you have a higher chance of meeting snot-nosed elitists there.

[Grey Paladin]

Not all classes are balanced for PvP, nor should they be, the best servers I played on focused on conflict between player-ran organizations and more often then not your political skill/wealth outweighted the importance of your combat capabilities.

As to the roleplaying, the fact you have a graphical interface doesn't means you have to stop playing D&D the same way, a single DM just isn't capable of thinking of so many diverse personalities with their own agendas, dreams, hopes, and background, or write 400+ areas and create a realistic living economy.

As to skill, I have once took down a highly powerful guild full of high level characters with my level 6 rogue using clever manipulation of the city's laws and the assassination of a level 15 fighter.

As to your experience, while you haven't stated a number I'd guess mine is more vast, I've been playing NWN online since 6 months after its release (up until now), and while finding a good server is difficult I have found that the higher the population, the lower the quality of RP becomes due to reduced DM attention- it is true that low population servers aren't automatically good, they just tend to be better.