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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DrizztFan24's Avatar

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    Default Batman VS Artificer

    Simple question that I'm sure will turn into a long debate...can an artificer function as a batman by making scrolls of any buffs he may need and wands of any party buffs?

    wand of magic weapon, greater+expend extra charges=chained?
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    Default Re: Batman VS Artificer

    Very much so.

    No real need for a debate.

    The batman wizard is who he is because he has access to every 'true' arcane spell. No reason greater, no reason lesser. With enough time to plan, he'll set up whatever combo/trap/trick/casting/ritual you need.
    The artificer has access to every true arcane spell. And every bard arcane spell. And every class specific arcane spell. And every divine spell. And everything that claims to be a spell. The artificer can't just act as a batman, he is a batman.

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    Default Re: Batman VS Artificer

    The artificer isn't as good at save-or-sucks, though, since spells cast from items generally have low save DCs. And if you want a high caster level, that'll cost you, too: It's still possible for the artificer, but more expensive.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Batman VS Artificer

    One thing the artificer has over the Wizard is he can essentially afford 33% more stuff than "batman" can... He'll probably be able to make any spell worth using constantly into a wand with infinite charges (Hello dual maximized disintegrating wands), and the things worth using 1 or 2/day (Mage's Mansion, Teleport) into charge items...

    He's somewhere between a Warlock and a Wizard. He needs even MORE time to setup than a wizard, but given the right resources he can be deadly. (But he's less flexible...)

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Batman VS Artificer

    The only problem for an artificer is if your enemies start throwing a few Mordenkainen's Disjunctions at you, if you can't counter it and your items fail their will saves (or most likely you fail their willsaves for them), all you have left are infusions, which aren't that useful in a fight (IMHO).
    Last edited by senrath; 2008-03-05 at 07:59 AM.

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Batman VS Artificer

    Although infusions are often overlooked, let me just bring up one in particular:

    Spell Storing Item.

    Basically, with a 1 minute casting time, you can put any spell in the game from any list into an item for later use (up to 1 hour/level later), up to a maximum spell level of one-half your class level (max 4th level spells). You do have to make a UMD check to emulate the spell you're putting in, but that's trivial for an artificer.

    It does have an XP cost, but it's a joke (your caster level x the level of the spell, so we're talking like 80 xp for the highest-level spells available at level 20, and more like 4 or 8 xp most of the time.) Of course, you have to pay any additional xp or material costs for the spell, but so what.

    Did I mention it's a first-level infusion? That can mimic up to fourth-level spells? It is, for all intents and purposes, a mini-Limited Wish, restricted only by its long casting time (just enough to keep it from being used during combat) and nominal XP cost.

    Basically, if there's ever a spell of 4th level or lower you need outside of combat (or for a combat you have time to prepare for), an artificer can grab it no problem.
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2008-03-05 at 09:30 AM.

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    Default Re: Batman VS Artificer

    Quote Originally Posted by senrath View Post
    The only problem for an artificer is if your enemies start throwing a few Mordenkainen's Disjunctions at you, if you can't counter it and your items fail their will saves (or most likely you fail their willsaves for them), all you have left are infusions, which aren't that useful in a fight (IMHO).
    THat's why every Artificer should start making one or two Rings of Spellbattle for everyone in the party. 10 Disjunctions a day is the DM being an ass.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Batman VS Artificer

    The Artificer, I'm tempted to say, is even more Batman than the Batman wizard, since he relies on gadgets. His ability to tap any spell is what makes him totally insane.


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    Default Re: Batman VS Artificer

    Quote Originally Posted by AslanCross View Post
    His ability to tap any spell is what makes him totally insane.
    That's my opinion on the subject. He's a Batman 'wizard' with full access to bard spells, cleric spells, druid spells, paladin spells, ranger spells, and anything else they can think of.

    Yeah, he has to operate through scrolls, wands, and such... but still. every spell is nothing to sneeze at when you're preparing to drop a train on someone.

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    Default Re: Batman VS Artificer

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverClawShift View Post
    That's my opinion on the subject. He's a Batman 'wizard' with full access to bard spells, cleric spells, druid spells, paladin spells, ranger spells, and anything else they can think of.

    Yeah, he has to operate through scrolls, wands, and such... but still. every spell is nothing to sneeze at when you're preparing to drop a train on someone.
    Also, the scrolls and wands can help - remember the ridiculous stacking of metmagic.

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