Making a bad thing better?

[Burley]

Okay, so, everybody hates the monk. I don't, but that's my opinion, you have yours. This is about a conceptual build for my friend who is in love with the Tempest PrC...for some reason.
Anyways, build a monk with the Cobra Strike variant fighting style [unearthed arcana] up to the first level of Tempest, which is 8th or 9th, I think. Stat it and all that jazz, and gimme some good feats that'd help make the build...useable (remembering that two feats go to prerequisites).
My friend would appreciate it.

[Farmer42]

Monks don't really get much from Tempest, since it's a TWF build. If you want to use monk weapons, it's OK, but you're gimping the monk more than it was to begin with. TWF specifically does not work with unarmed strikes.

[Starsinger]

Monks don't really get much from Tempest, since it's a TWF build. If you want to use monk weapons, it's OK, but you're gimping the monk more than it was to begin with. TWF specifically does not work with unarmed strikes.

This can be waved away with a house rule or DM fiat.

[tyckspoon]

Monks don't really get much from Tempest, since it's a TWF build. If you want to use monk weapons, it's OK, but you're gimping the monk more than it was to begin with. TWF specifically does not work with unarmed strikes.

The hell it doesn't. TWF works exactly the same way with unarmed strikes that it does with everything else. Figuring everything out gets a little weird if you combine it with Flurry, but it works.

[RTGoodman]

Okay, so, everybody hates the monk.

That's unfair - people think the Monk is terrible and sucks worse than every other class (as well as many NPC classes), but they don't hate it. A lot of people like playing Monks, they just acknowledge that their weak.


Secondly, regarding Two-Weapon Fighting, Unarmed Strikes, and Flurry of Blows, I think I remember an article from Rules of the Game that talked about it, but I can't seem to locate the exact one.

Besides that, I don't really have much to add. Tempest seems to work really well with the Dervish PrC, though, and since Monks have Perform as a class skill, getting the bunch of ranks in Perform (Dance) for Dervish should be easy. I prefer Swashbuckler/Fighter/Dervish/Tempest, but I'm sure someone can work out a decent build using Monk.

[The_Snark]

Monks don't really get much from Tempest, since it's a TWF build. If you want to use monk weapons, it's OK, but you're gimping the monk more than it was to begin with. TWF specifically does not work with unarmed strikes.

Where does it say this? Given that you have two hands (and for that matter, feet, since monks can make unarmed strikes with whatever they like), I don't see why that would be the case.

Are you the DM? If so, you could consider making minor rules alterations in your friend's favor—for example, allowing the tempest's AC bonus to apply with unarmed strikes.

If unarmed strikes indeed can't be used for TWF, I reccomend using a quarterstaff.

I think you more or less have the character planned out; it won't be all that spectacular, and there's not a lot you can do to change that for a monk/tempest, but a Cobra Strike monk is definitely the way to go. Reccomendations:

-Get Acrobatic Strike (PHBII) or Elusive Target (CW) when you can, which will be at level 12 since the level 9 feat will go to Improved Two-weapon Fighting. A Spring Attacker will be moving each round, so you can get the bonus from Acrobatic Strike every round. Elusive Target is simply a nice defensive feat, although possibly not as good for a spring attacker (who generally won't be taking all that many melee attacks as compared to other party members).

-If the player cares to be a halfling, you can use the halfling monk racial sub levels and get a bit of skirmish damage. Not very much, but it's a little bit.

I can't think of very many feats that would make this build better, unfortunately... Have you shown the person the dervish class, maybe? They're somewhat similar, but the dervish is generally considered more effective.

[Farmer42]

OK, let me rephrase, unarmed strikes work as a light weapon, and a monk can flurry with TWF is they're using monk weapons, however, you don't get two unarmed strikes per round unless you have an iterative attack.

Edit: Fount the rules of the game page- http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070327a

"If your base attack bonus is high enough to give you iterative attacks, you can make multiple unarmed attacks when you use the full attack action."

[Tokiko Mima]

OK, let me rephrase, unarmed strikes work as a light weapon, and a monk can flurry with TWF is they're using monk weapons, however, you don't get two unarmed strikes per round unless you have an iterative attack.

Edit: Fount the rules of the game page- http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070327a

"If your base attack bonus is high enough to give you iterative attacks, you can make multiple unarmed attacks when you use the full attack action."

Actually, you had a point:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070410a
A monk using one or two special monk weapons simply substitutes one attack from each weapon (or from one or both ends of a quarterstaff) as part of a full attack (including a flurry of blows). The monk need not take any penalties for off-hand or two-weapon attacks. The monk, however, does not get an extra attack from a second weapon. If the monk is using a flurry of blows, she adds her full Strength bonus to damage from any successful attack, even if she uses what normally would be her off hand, or uses one end of a quarterstaff as a two-handed weapon.

If a monk is not using her flurry of blows ability, she can claim an extra attack from a second weapon. If she does, she takes all the penalties for attacking with two weapons and for attacking with off-hand weapons. A monk using an unarmed strike as an off-hand attack does not suffer any off-hand penalties; however, under the regular rules for two-weapon fighting you get only one extra attack for an off-hand weapon.

Basically, the second weapon counts as one of the attacks you would otherwise get with Flurry anyway. Yuck!

[Cuddly]

Honestly? I recommend going with swordsage and picking maneouvres that are especially monky.

If you have the book, that is.

[tyckspoon]

Relevant FAQ:

Can a monk fight with two weapons? Can she combine
a two-weapon attack with a flurry of blows? What are her
penalties on attack rolls?

A monk can fight with two weapons just like any other
character, but she must accept the normal penalties on her
attack rolls to do so. She can use an unarmed strike as an offhand
weapon. She can even combine two-weapon fighting with
a flurry of blows to gain an extra attack with her off hand (but
remember that she can use only unarmed strikes or special
monk weapons as part of the flurry). The penalties for twoweapon
fighting stack with the penalties for flurry of blows.

You can Two-weapon Fighting with unarmed strikes; they just don't benefit from the special Monk bonuses to unarmed strikes (biggest probably being that the 'off hand' attacks from TWF only get 1/2 Strength bonus, as usual for a Light weapon.) You'll also need a lot of luck to hit; between Flurry penalties and TWF penalty, you'll be whiffing a lot.