Clash of the Nine Swords: Round 4

[CockroachTeaParty]

Now for the final match in the initial tier: Round IV in the tournament to see who will emerge as the true master of the Sublime Way.

Round III

Nine level 20 characters, built using the Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords. Each with the Elite Array for starting abilities, and 760,000 gp worth of equipment, including the Legacy Weapon associated with the martial discipline they have been built to represent. Once again, these characters are far from being optimized, and these fights aren't really meant to prove anything. They're mostly just for fun, for those that enjoy their fluff and crunch mixed together with... a +5 whisk or something.

Tournament Round IV: Setting Sun vs. Devoted Spirit

An intimidating sight by anyone's standards, the champion of the Devoted Spirit discipline, wielding the deadly falchion Faithful Avenger, clad in pitch-black adamantine full plate mail, is Scott the Punisher, Crusader of Hextor, the Lord of Tyranny. His opponent, master of the Setting Sun school, is the diminutive Beltia Woodpillow, a halfling swordsage wielding Eventide's Edge, the subtle, humble, yet undeniably deadly short sword. Can Beltia turn weakness into strength against a one-man army such as Scott? The crowd watches with bated breath as the warriors enter the arena.

Scott the Punisher

Spoiler

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Scott the Punisher: male human crusader of hextor 20; medium humanoid (human); HD 20d10+128; hp 242/242; init.+1; Spd. 20 ft.; AC 33, touch 16, flat footed 32; Base Atk+20/+15/+10/+5; Grp.+27; Atk +30 melee (2d4+17/18-20, falchion); Full Atk +30/+25/+20/+15 (falchion); SA furious counterstrike, steely resolve 30, smite, faithful srike; SQ indomitable soul, zealous surge, mettle, blessing of faith, boundless determination, resiliency, DR 3/-; AL LE; SV Fort.+19, Ref.+11, Will+14; Str 28, Dex 12, Con 24, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 20.
Skills and Feats: Concentration+9, Diplomacy+8, Jump+24, Intimidate+31, Listen+6, Sense Motive+11, Spot+6, Tumble+10; Devoted Bulwark, Power Attack, Die Hard, Extra Granted Maneuver, Blade Meditation (Devoted Spirit), Faith Unswerving, Combat Reflexes, Robilar's Gambit, Martial Stance (Immortal Fortitude).
Languages: Common.
Faithful Avenger's Gifts: +6 ATK and DMG vs. CG opponents, +3 vs. G or C opponents. 1/1 day: ignore damage from a single source. 20 temp HP per round while in Immortal Fortitude stance.
Spell-like Abilities: At will: Detect Good (CL 10th). 3/3 day: Lesser Restoration (CL 10th). 1/1 day: Quickened Restoration (CL 15th).
Smite: 2/2 day: +5 ATK, +20 damage.
Zealous Surge: 1/1 day: reroll a saving throw.
Faithful Avenger's Toll: -2 ATK, -4 Fort. saves, 12 hp lost.
Crusader Maneuvers Known: (IL 20th) 1: Douse the Flames. 3: Defensive Rebuke. 4: Divine Surge, Entangling Blade. 5: Doom Charge, Law Bearer, Daunting Strike. 6: Crushing Vise. 7: Castigating Strike, Colossus Strike. 8: Greater Divine Surge, Adamantine Bones. 9: Strike of Righteous Vitality, Mountain Tombstone Strike.
Maneuvers Readied: 7 (5)
Stances Known: 1: Martial Spirit, Iron Guard's Glare. 3: Thicket of Blades. 6: Aura of Perfect Order. 8: Immortal Fortitude.
Possessions: Faithful Avenger (+3 unholy cold iron falchion), +5 heavy fortification energy resistance 10 adamantine full plate, amulet of natural armor+3, ring of protection+5, belt of giant strength+4, cloak of resistance+3, dust of disappearance, winged boots, helm of charisma+6, goggles of night, handy haversack, ring of freedom of movement, luckstone, scabbard of keen edges.

Beltia Woodpillow

Spoiler

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Beltia Woodpillow: female halfling swordsage 20; small humanoid (halfling); HD 20d8+68; hp 161/161; init.+14; Spd. 20 ft.; AC 43, touch 35, flat footed 34; Base Atk+15/+10/+5; Grp.+18; Atk+28 melee (1d4+7/19-20, short sword) or +24 melee (1d6+4, unarmed strike); Full Atk +28/+23/+18 (short sword) or +24/+19/+14 (unarmed strike); SA weapon focus (Setting Sun), insightful strike (Setting Sun), insightful strike (Diamond Mind), sting like a bee; SQ quick to act+5, AC bonus, sense magic, defensive stance (Setting Sun), defensive stance (diamond mind), improved evasion, dual boost 3/3 day, crux of balance, baffling defense, evasive defense; AL N; SV Fort.+9, Ref.+23, Will+21; Str 14, Dex 28, Con 18, Int 13, Wis 24, Cha 8.
Skills and Feats: Climb+5, Concentration+28, Diplomacy+2, Hide+18, Jump+4, Intimidate+23, Listen+33, Move Silently+16, Sense Motive+33, Spot+17, Tumble+35; Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Finesse, Blade Meditation (Setting Sun), Snap Kick, Stunning Fist, Falling Sun Attack, Distant Horizon.
Languages: Common, Halfling.
Eventide's Edge's Gifts: +4 on bull rush, overrun, and trip attacks. +2d6 damage vs. larger creatures. +1 AC. Knows Comet Throw. Automatically succeed on Sense Motive checks with Baffling Defense.
Stunning Fist: 6/6 day: DC 28.
Spell-like Abilities: 2/2 day: Greater Invisibility (CL 10).
Halfling Traits: +2 saves vs. fear, +1 thrown weapons and slings.
Eventide's Edge's Toll: -2 Attacks, -4 Fort. saves, 12 hp lost.
Swordsage Maneuvers Known: 1: Counter Charge, Wolf Fang Strike, Distracting Ember, Wind Stride. 2: Baffling Defense, Clever Positioning, Cloak of Deception. 3: Feigned Opening, Mind Over Body. 4: Comet Throw, Strike of the Broken Shield, Hand of Death. 5: Soaring Throw, Mirrored Pursuit, Stalking Shadow. 6: Scorpion Parry, Ballista Throw, Greater Insightful Strike. 7: Hydra Slaying Strike, Shadow Blink, Quicksilver Motion. 8: Fool's Strike, One With Shadow, Diamond Defense, Diamond Nightmare Blade. 9: Tornado Throw, Time Stands Still, Mountain Tombstone Strike.
Stances Known: 1: Step of the Wind, Stance of Clarity. 3: Giant Killing Style. 5: Shifting Defense, Hearing the Air. 8: Ghostly Defense.
Possessions: Eventide's Edge (+4 defending mithral short sword), bracers of armor+8, gauntlets of ogre power, cloak of resistance+5, monk's belt, periapt of wisdom+6, ring of protection+5, winged boots, vest of dexterity+6, handy haversack, ring of freedom of movement, goggles of night, robe of scintillating colors, luckstone, pink ioun stone, dusty rose ioun stone, 2 restorative ointments, 3 potions of Cure Serious Wounds, potion of Barkskin+5, 5 potions of resist energy 20 (1 of each major type), potion of Remove Fear, adventuring gear.

Conditions
For the first time in the tournament, the randomly determined time of day is night. The warriors have their Goggles of Night on to help them see through the gloom. They fight in a 100 ft. square arena, starting 30 feet away from each other in the center.

Round 1
Before they take action, Scott attempts to engage Beltia in a duel of wills. Beltia submits to the attempt, fooling the human into believing he has dominated her will.
Surprisingly, the human takes the initiative. He scoffs at his pathetic-looking opponent, unarmored and only wielding a halfling-sized short sword. He draws Faithful Avenger from his Scabbard of Keen Edges, assuming the Aura of Perfect Order stance. Confident that he can absorb any damage the halfling can dish out, he also assumes the open stance of Robilar's Gambit, ready to punish any attempt to even touch him.
Beltia calmly assumes the Shifting Defense stance, speaking the command word on her Robe of Scintillating Colors. Then, with a sly smile, she draws Eventide's Edge, moving 20 feet away from her foe.

Round 2
Seeing the halfling scamper off, Scott activates his Winged Boots, and flies closer to his target.
The swordsage takes a step back, and removes a potion of Haste from her pack, downing the magical concoction in a single gulp.

Round 3
Placing his feet on the ground right next to his diminutive opponent, Scott invokes the power of Hextor and the very earth itself, executing the deadly Mountain Tombstone Strike. However, the halfling gracefully dodges out of the way. Irritated, the crusader assumes the Thicket of Blades stance, assuring that any further moving around will be severely punished.
Almost carelessly, the hafling moves close to Scott, well within range of his falchion. He takes the opportunity to swing at her. However, right at the moment when the blade should connect, the halfling deflects the blow with her own blade, using the Setting Sun counter known as the Fool's Strike. The momentum of the crusader's swing carries the blade towards its wielders leg, and Scott slashes his own thigh. The first blood Faithful Avenger draws belongs to the one wielding it! Unharmed, the hafling dances around her target, finally grabbing the human's belt strap. Then, incredibly, Beltia sends hundreds of pounds of human and adamantine flying 15 feet through the air in a maneuver known as the Tornado Throw. Scott takes minimal damage, but his pride is considerably wounded.

Round 4
Scott the Punisher stands up, his armor covered in dust. With a roar of anger, he flies up twenty feet into the air, preparing to make a swooping attack.
Beltia smiles, looking up at her foe, knowing full well what is coming. She removes a potion of Greater Magic Fang from her pack, and swallows the entirety of the infusion. She can feel arcane energy pulse through her veins, her small limbs now more deadly in many ways than the ancient blade she wields.

Round 5
With a scream of zealous fury, Scott dives down, executing the dreadful Doom Charge. However, the hafling is not good, and his charge gives him no extra advantages. Not that it matters anyway, as the swordsage quickly steps out of the way of the attack.
Taking advantage of the drop in the crusader's defenses, Beltia kicks upward into Scott's exposed torso, delivering a deadly Mountain Tombstone Strike. What would have been a devastating blow is completely ignored however, as Scott activates the magic of his unholy falchion, providing total protection from the blow. In retaliation he takes a swing at her, thanks to Robilar's Gambit, but the blade is deflected by the magical shielding of her bracers and ring. Rather surprised, the halfling Shadow Blinks away, appearing in the distance in her glowing, shining robe.

Round 6
Scott once again flies up to his slippery foe, undaunted by the illusory patterns on her robe. Asking for Hextor's might to aid him, he executes a deadly smite attack, but again the blow is easily sidestepped. It's as if the halfling can read him like an open book.
Beltia decides to take the kiddy gloves off, and show the human exactly what she's made of. She taps into her Diamond Mind training, and unleashes a double-flurry attack with the Time Stands Still maneuver. Thanks to her own skill and Scott's open stance, every attack but one finds its mark. Her fists and feet bruise flesh and crack bone, while Eventide's Edge finally tastes blood, its magical properties dealing even more damage to the larger human than normal. The crusader can barely keep up with her movements, and the few parries and counters he attempts are easily deflected, dodged, or flat out miss. The little halfing deals an impressive 111 damage in a single round.

Round 7
His health dropping dangerously low, Scott assumes the potent Immortal Fortitude stance, his already impressive constitution and will to persevere bolstered by his magic sword's supernatural defenses. Still, if he can not land a single blow on his opponent, he cannot last forever. In desperation, he tries to hit with a Strike of Righteous Vitality, but again, the halfling dodges the attack effortlessly.

In the subsequent rounds, Beltia, confident in her ability to avoid any counter attack, takes the time to ready her most powerful maneuvers. She executes another Tornado Throw, tossing Scott around like a rag doll, throwing him three times and dealing 32 damage. She also connects with two more Mountain Tombstone Strikes, one of which is effectively negated by a Lesser Restoration from Scott's sword. However, on the 15th round, the second Mountain Tombstone Strike deals a horrific 7 constitution damage, plummeting the crusader to -50 hp. Despite his best efforts, his body simply cannot survive such punishment, and he falls dead on the floor of the arena, his body a twisted mockery of what it once was.

The victor stands, just over three feet tall, and completely unscathed. She wipes a little bit of sweat off her brow, and calmly sheathes Eventide's Edge. If only he wasn't a crusader, perhaps he would have surrendered like a gentleman. Typical, for one of the tall folk to refuse to admit defeat.

Aftermath
Victor: Beltia Woodpillow, master of Setting Sun.
Time Elapsed: 1 minute, 30 seconds.
Most Damage Dealt in a Single Round: Beltia, with her 111 damage Time Stands Still full attack.

... As this battle progressed, I started to wonder if I was doing something wrong. The humble little halfing never took damage once. And it's all thanks to the Shifting Defense Stance. With nine AoO's a round thanks to Combat Reflexes, the swordsage could 5 foot step away from any attack the human dared to throw her way. The only way Scott even was able to attack her was through Robilar's Gambit, and even then it ultimately did him more harm than good, since the +4 to damage with every hit on him really added up.
Even assuming Beltia didn't use the Shifting Defense stance, her AC was so high thanks to Haste and Eventide's Edge that the human needed to roll a 17+ just to hit her (her AC was around 47-48 the entire fight). On top of that she had 50% concealment almost the entire fight, and if she wanted to she could have used her sword to activate Greater Invisibility and made even more of an absolute mockery of him.

I'm actually rather stunned. Against foes without reach weapons, Shifting Defense is practically the perfect defense. She also had several potent counters left that she never even got a chance to use, including Baffling Defense (which she auto-succeeded on thanks to her sword) or One With Shadow. This halfling is a wraith, a deadly untouchable killing machine. She relied on Mountain Tombstone Strike to finish off the crusader, which is testament to his toughness. If she had relied on traditional damage, his Immortal Fortitude stance would have kept him going for much longer, but to what end? He simply couldn't touch her.

Perhaps this fight would have been different if Beltia was Good or Chaotic, since Faithful Avenger would have been so much more useful. (I randomly determined everyone's alignment). And against any other competitor in this tournament, Scott the Punisher would have put up a nasty fight. But now I worry whether it is simply unfair to fight Beltia. Perhaps the White Raven master, with his summoned allies, can plan a decent strategy against her. The Iron Heart master hits more accurately than Scott, and his Robilar's Gambit might prove useful. The Diamond Mind master's defenses are top notch as well, and the Stone Dragon master has the potential to gain reach, but still...

I have newfound respect for the Setting Sun discipline. Dare I say my next character just might be a halfling swordsage.

So concludes the first tier of the tournament. Next up, the White Raven master cannot be the odd man out, so we will get to see his skills in battle. However, as we enter the second tier, I would start putting some gold on the Setting Sun swordsage...

[Rachel Lorelei]

Told ya. Didn't I tell ya?

[CockroachTeaParty]

Told ya. Didn't I tell ya?

You did indeed, madam.

[playswithfire]

I too had largely ignored setting sun. Does shifting defense only let you take the 5 ft steps when they miss or whenever they attack? If the latter, I think only a Dervish can keep up with them.

[CockroachTeaParty]

I too had largely ignored setting sun. Does shifting defense only let you take the 5 ft steps when they miss or whenever they attack? If the latter, I think only a Dervish can keep up with them.

Maybe it's been errata'd, but the stance reads:
"While you are in this stance, you can make an immediate 5-foot step each time an opponent attacks you."

The fluff describes "each failed attack gives you the split-second you need to move without drawing attacks."

Per the RAW, this was all perfectly legal.

I should mention that Scott did get off a few AoO thanks to Thicket of Blades, but they were all misses, and I didn't feel like writing them all out.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

1) Yes Shifting Defense > Non-Reach.

2) Am I to understand that Scott had a stance which generated 20 free Temporary HP a round, and that he could have started in (or could have assumed as a swift action) that he did not use (and did not use any other Stance in place of) until the 7th round?

Please explain to me what he used his swift actions for in the previous six rounds?

EDIT: Oh right, Thicket of Blades, that gets a few extra attacks when he already gets all his Robilar's attacks. Yeah go with Immortal Fort.

[RTGoodman]

FLAWLESS VICTORY!

*Clears throat*


I'm no expert on ToB, but I've read through it a few times; from those readings, though, I had absolutely no clue that Setting Sun could be that good.

I enjoy these duels tremendously - keep 'em up. Even if others deride them, I think they make interesting reads.

[CockroachTeaParty]

1) Yes Shifting Defense > Non-Reach.

2) Am I to understand that Scott had a stance which generated 20 free Temporary HP a round, and that he could have started in (or could have assumed as a swift action) that he did not use (and did not use any other Stance in place of) until the 7th round?

Please explain to me what he used his swift actions for in the previous six rounds?

EDIT: Oh right, Thicket of Blades, that gets a few extra attacks when he already gets all his Robilar's attacks. Yeah go with Immortal Fort.

Even with Immortal Fortitude on, he still would have had extreme difficulty trying to hit Beltia. And even with the 2 lesser restoration and the quickened restoration from his sword, enough Mountain Tombstone Strikes would bring him down no matter what, which is what indeed happened. CON damage drops your max hp, ignoring temporary hp entirely. The poor man was doomed.

EDIT:
FLAWLESS VICTORY! indeed.

I think Beltia has earned being the odd man out next round, simply by being the only one to not take any damage.

[Mephisto]

Does the fact that whoever has the Cloak of Scintillating Colors wins mean anything? Negating half of an enemy's attacks seems like a damn big advantage.

[Chronos]

With a scream of zealous fury, Scott dives down, executing the dreadful Doom Charge. However, the hafling is not good, and his charge gives him no extra advantages.

I think it'd be more fair to assume that in any given battle, the combatants are of opposite alignments (even if this means that they're not consistent from one battle to the next). After all, opposite alignments are most likely to have a reason to fight, and many classes have alignment-dependent abilities. This will be especially relevant if you ever do a tournament which includes the non-initiator melee classes, since the Paladin has basically nothing vs. non-evil opponents.

[GammaPaladin]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Setting Sun is awesome.

It doesn't look powerful, but it has so many counters, and so many ways to control your opponents. Note that this fight took longer than most of the others, because Setting Sun isn't amazingly powerful in damage (Although Ballista Throw is nothing to sneer at, particularly against a group), but an enemy off his feet can't fight, and an enemy that can't hit you can't kill you.

Setting Sun is brilliant for doing those things.

As I said in the previous thread, it can turn you into a god of battlefield control.

Imagine what a Setting Sun practitioner with a spiked chain can do... All those throw maneuvers work anywhere within your reach you know ;)

[namo]

I love Fool's Strike, but I was surprised that it actually worked, given the 5 points difference in BAB. I guess the enhancement difference betweenthe weapons + Weapon Focus + Haste + Robilar more than bridge the gap...

[KIDS]

Very interesting, and I was as shocked as everyone else to see Setting Sun doing this well. Hyper-optimized AC also has something to do with it I guess....

I always thought that Shifting Defense's 5-foot step was resolved after the attack roll, or only if the attack missed (which is already very powerful) but it seems to have done correctly here! This way, it really makes an insane difference...

[Rad]

Actually, there is a CustServ clarification that rules it in the sane way:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=683775

Q According to the "shifting defense" stance on page 73, it says, "You can make an immediate 5-foot step each time an opponent atacks you." When does the step take place in relation to the attack?

A Actually if you look a little closer, these 5-foot steps can only be taken when your opponent "misses" you.

" Each failed attack gives you the split-second you need to move without drawing attacks."

So you can't mess up an attack because he already messed it up. If he made a 5-foot step to attack to start making a full attack action against you and missed, you might be able to move out of reach to avoid the rest of his attacks

While it is highly debatable that this interpretation is the correct one, it is most likely what the maneuver was intended to do. ToB is not immune to bad worded maneuvers (quite the opposite).
Also, there is no official distinction between the "flavor" text of the several maneuvers and the rules part, so they can technically both be considered RAW.

I don't mean this as a critic to the very entertaining job of CockroachTeaParty, but I think that people reading this should be aware of this pronouncement when they use the stance in their games.

Keep going!

[Saph]

Very interesting. I've never seen Setting Sun used so effectively.

I might just have to play a judo-type swordsage now . . . except that almost everyone else in my group is convinced that ToB is broken. Sigh.

- Saph

[Arbitrarity]

Can't you tornado throw the same opponent many, many times? I seem to recall it allowing trip attempts every 10 ft you move, and since you only provoke 1 AOO for movement in a round, you can get crazy stuff with high speed. On the other hand, maybe not for a halfling. 10 throw attempts, though, for 2d6 each, if they suceed? Ouchie.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Can't you tornado throw the same opponent many, many times? I seem to recall it allowing trip attempts every 10 ft you move, and since you only provoke 1 AOO for movement in a round, you can get crazy stuff with high speed. On the other hand, maybe not for a halfling. 10 throw attempts, though, for 2d6 each, if they suceed? Ouchie.

Yes, you can throw the same opponent multiple times. However, you must move at least 10 ft. between each throw attempt. In the battle above, the first Tornado Throw Beltia actually botched her first attempt (natural 1 on the touch attack), but got a second throw in. The second time she used the maneuver she got in three throws. For a 20 ft. speed halfling, even with haste thrown in, she could have gotten 8 throws maximum, which is still quite a lot, but a medium or speedier character could get even more throws in. It's quite a nasty move.

[Draz74]

Can't you tornado throw the same opponent many, many times? I seem to recall it allowing trip attempts every 10 ft you move, and since you only provoke 1 AOO for movement in a round, you can get crazy stuff with high speed.

I think this is debatable. After you Tornado Throw them, they're prone, and already-prone foes are normally not valid targets for trip attempts. But maybe they're still valid targets for Tornado Throw?

[Vael Nir]

Very interesting. I've never seen Setting Sun used so effectively.

I might just have to play a judo-type swordsage now . . . except that almost everyone else in my group is convinced that ToB is broken. Sigh.

- Saph

Same here, although to be honest... comparing it to core characters which aren't spellcasters really shows that they have a point.

Funny thing is that Incantatrix slipped under the radar of one of these players... my sorcerer is having fun with it anyway. :-)

[GammaPaladin]

I think this is debatable. After you Tornado Throw them, they're prone, and already-prone foes are normally not valid targets for trip attempts. But maybe they're still valid targets for Tornado Throw?

Tornado Throw's text explicitly allows it.

"After every 10 feet you move, you can attempt another throw against the same opponent or a different foe."

Also,

"You can move up to double your speed as part of this maneuver"

Fun stuff ;)

For bonus cool points, the way it's worded allows you to take a 10 foot movement, and attempt to throw the person again, even if you failed an attempt. It's like a wizzy spell that doesn't end on a successful save.

Pure awesome.

[SpikeFightwicky]

I think the fight may have gone somewhat differently if Scott had different magic items. Swap a few magic items around, and give him a +5 animated shield to give him a (better for level 20) AC of 40.

[GammaPaladin]

Except that all the Setting Sun throws are touch attacks. No armor bonus, no shield bonus.

Between Devastating Throw, Comet Throw, Ballista Throw, Soaring Throw, and Tornado Throw, you don't even have to refresh often.

Devastating only does 2d6, Comet Throw does 4d6, Ballista does 6d6, Soaring does 8d6, and Tornado does up to 48d6, if you're medium, hasted, and make all 12 throws (Average damage assuming you make all 12 attempts: 148).

[CockroachTeaParty]

I think the fight may have gone somewhat differently if Scott had different magic items. Swap a few magic items around, and give him a +5 animated shield to give him a (better for level 20) AC of 40.

That's actually a pretty good point. I forgot about animated shields.

[SpikeFightwicky]

Except that all the Setting Sun throws are touch attacks. No armor bonus, no shield bonus.

Between Devastating Throw, Comet Throw, Ballista Throw, Soaring Throw, and Tornado Throw, you don't even have to refresh often.

Devastating only does 2d6, Comet Throw does 4d6, Ballista does 6d6, Soaring does 8d6, and Tornado does up to 48d6, if you're medium, hasted, and make all 12 throws (Average damage assuming you make all 12 attempts: 148).

Unless you swap out a couple of feats for shield spec and shield ward for the shield bonus.

Either way, the fight probably would have been ended the same since Scott had no way to hit Beltia... I'm just saying that 7 extra AC, in general, isn't a terrible option. Unless I missed something and the combatants were specifically specced to only fight eachother and the extra AC options were scrapped because he knew he was fighting a grappler.

[SpikeFightwicky]

That's actually a pretty good point. I forgot about animated shields.

Also, I don't DO think Robbie's Gambit was the best option he had, since the DR from the armor almost negated the extra 4 damage per hit.

Edited to make sense

[North]

Woot! Yeah! Go Setting Sun

[GammaPaladin]

I agree that an animated shield would be great against other opponents, but unless he took those feats, which aren't that great in general, it wouldn't have helped him against this particular opponent.

The fact that their throws work off touch attacks is one of the things that makes Setting Sun so awesome.

One of my favorite builds is a Setting Sun focused Swordsage (Or Warblade with every fourth level being a Master of Nine level) with a spiked chain.

Using Tornado Throw from 10 feet away is priceless.

[GammaPaladin]

Actually, there is a CustServ clarification that rules it in the sane way:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=683775

While it is highly debatable that this interpretation is the correct one, it is most likely what the maneuver was intended to do. ToB is not immune to bad worded maneuvers (quite the opposite).
Also, there is no official distinction between the "flavor" text of the several maneuvers and the rules part, so they can technically both be considered RAW.

I don't mean this as a critic to the very entertaining job of CockroachTeaParty, but I think that people reading this should be aware of this pronouncement when they use the stance in their games.

Keep going!

My personal response to this... CustServ is wrong a lot. And this would be one of those times. Flavor text is not crunch! The mechanics are in no way, shape, or form affected by the flavor of the maneuver. If they are, it limits the player's RP.

Now, it may be a mistake in the writing of the crunch, but the maneuver as written does not work the way CustServ says it does, and unless/until it is errata'd, I wouldn't run it that way.

[SpikeFightwicky]

I agree that an animated shield would be great against other opponents, but unless he took those feats, which aren't that great in general, it wouldn't have helped him against this particular opponent.

The fact that their throws work off touch attacks is one of the things that makes Setting Sun so awesome.

One of my favorite builds is a Setting Sun focused Swordsage (Or Warblade with every fourth level being a Master of Nine level) with a spiked chain.

Using Tornado Throw from 10 feet away is priceless.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that he was very much doomed. I just go for the animated shield whenever I can. But even with the shield, his AC likely wouldn't have been quite high enough stop the throwing barrage.

As for the Setting Sun, I always passed it off as 'meh' when looking at it, but seeing it in action is quite the discipline! I'll have to read up on it again.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

The thing is, with 20 free HP every round, all but soaring and Tornado are effectively nothing as far as damage goes. It was the Con Damage strikes that finally brought him down, so +7 AC would have been very useful. At that point he would have lasted another 40 rounds himself, 8d6 averages 28, or 8 real damage, Tornado Throw would do better, but after using it the Swordsage would have to refresh, so every round he would get one attack per throw, and she would get a few damage in, then restore maneuvers and get attacked again. It would certainly improve his chances greatly.