My (potential) Batman Build

[DrizztFan24]

So is this a decent batman build? I have access to core, comp. arcane, comp. scoundrel, draconomicon, and drow of the underdark.


Wizard3/MoAO2/Fatespinner2/MaAO2/ISFV3/ArchMage2/ISFV4/?1

*KEY: MoAO=Mage of the Arcane Order (complete arcane)
ISFV=Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil (complete arcane, and where is the master of the sevenfold veil? )

You can enter MoAO at level 4 by being a human and taking Skill focus (spellcraft) and Smiting Spell as your level 1 feats. Then for third level nab Cooperative Spell. Level 6 and 9 are your spell foci feats for ISFV. Lvl 12 grab another spell focus in a school with save-or-X spells that you use to qualify for Archmage. Grab your two levels in Archmage for Arcane Reach and Mastery of Shaping (saving you the feats you have spent getting here). Switch back to ISFV to finish out you full caster progression and get some sweet effects.

After level 12 you are open to choose feats and you have 1 meta magic feat for MoAO level 2.

I would be a diviner banning evocation. Thoughts? Ideas? Bribes? Flaws? *crosses fingers*

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Delay everything one level to take Master Specialist. It has no requirements that Archmage doesn't, and will save the feat you spent on Skill Focus.

Otherwise, it's a nice Cheddar.

[DrizztFan24]

Delay everything one level to take Master Specialist. It has no requirements that Archmage doesn't, and will save the feat you spent on Skill Focus.

Otherwise, it's a nice Cheddar.

Where is Master Specialist found?

Hehe, thanks, this is my first time trying to build an optimized character, and seeing as Incantrix isn't included in there I didn't know how well it would be received.

Is the build a mild cheddar or a nice sharp one? I kind of prefer the bite of the aged ones.

[TempusCCK]

Master Specialist is a PrC from Complete Mage, and you nab a bunch of neat little bonuses to your specialized school. It's definately worth a complete run through if you like what you see.

[CASTLEMIKE]

So is this a decent batman build? I have access to core, comp. arcane, comp. scoundrel, draconomicon, and drow of the underdark.


Wizard3/MoAO2/Fatespinner2/MaAO2/ISFV3/ArchMage2/ISFV4/?1

*KEY: MoAO=Mage of the Arcane Order (complete arcane)
ISFV=Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil (complete arcane, and where is the master of the sevenfold veil? )

You can enter MoAO at level 4 by being a human and taking Skill focus (spellcraft) and Smiting Spell as your level 1 feats. Then for third level nab Cooperative Spell. Level 6 and 9 are your spell foci feats for ISFV. Lvl 12 grab another spell focus in a school with save-or-X spells that you use to qualify for Archmage. Grab your two levels in Archmage for Arcane Reach and Mastery of Shaping (saving you the feats you have spent getting here). Switch back to ISFV to finish out you full caster progression and get some sweet effects.

After level 12 you are open to choose feats and you have 1 meta magic feat for MoAO level 2.

I would be a diviner banning evocation. Thoughts? Ideas? Bribes? Flaws? *crosses fingers*

I like the MotAO but disagree the MotAO PRC requires Knowledge Arcana - 8 ranks so Skill Focus feat Arcana doesn't do the trick meeting the PRC prerequisites in most games and wouldn't be needed for the ones it works in. (I can live with either interpretation by RAW).

In a leveling up skill game with access to PHBII and Complete Mage I like going Beguiler -1 taking Practiced Spellcaster, level up in Wizard and dip into Ultimate Magus - 4 (to fuel some meta before a comparable standard wizard).

Reversing the trick and Going Variant Specialist Conjurer with the Precocious Apprentice Trick (If it works in a campaign for Master Specialist) and dipping into Beguiler -1. Dipping into Master Speciailist -4, Ultimate Magus -4, other levels to taste and campaign.

[DrizztFan24]

I like the MotAO but disagree the MotAO PRC requires Knowledge Arcana - 8 ranks so Skill Focus feat Arcana doesn't do the trick meeting the PRC prerequisites in most games and wouldn't be needed for the ones it works in. (I can live with either interpretation by RAW).

So do you change the prerequisites? I have the book here in front of me and it says 8 if that is what you are disagreeing with.

[Chronos]

The problem is that 8 ranks is not the same thing as 5 ranks and skill focus. There is no way to possibly get 8 ranks in a skill before level 5, which means that your first level of the PrC is character level 6, at the earliest.

Lvl 12 grab another spell focus in a school with save-or-X spells that you use to qualify for Archmage.

I would recommend Transmutation. The save-or-die spells are mostly Necromancy, Enchantment, or Transmutation, but there are absolute defenses against most of the first two (Mind Blank will stop all Enchantments, and Death Ward will stop most Necromancy). But there's very little an opponent can do to defend against Baleful Polymorph, Flesh to Stone, Disintegrate, or Polymorph Any Object.

[DrizztFan24]

You know, that totally just blew all of tomorrow down the drain for me

So I get to spend another few hours trying to puzzle this one out.

any suggested levels to drop till level 6?

[RTGoodman]

Is there a particular reason you went with MotAO? It never seemed like that great of a PrC to me, but I might just be missing something.

My current Batman (in Core-only, though) is working toward Diviner/Loremaster/Archmage (not sure about the levels of each), also barring Evocation. Loremaster's 1st (or maybe 2nd?) level, if you have a high enough Int, can grab you an extra feat with one of your Secrets, so that makes it easier to grab other PrC prerequisites. I'm playing a Gnome, so I didn't get that Human bonus feat, but the Loremaster works fine to replace that.

[DrizztFan24]

It was something other than wizard, you got the spellpool for incase you happened to need that 1-3rd level spell and at 2nd level you got a free metamagic feat, I took the other two levels to get the spell pool 2, levels 4-6 spells.

[ZekeArgo]

Focused Specialist Conjurer Wizard 5/Master Specialist 3/Geometer 3/Master Specialist 7/Archmage 2

Pickup Abrupt Jaunt and Spontaneous Divination for wizard class abilities. Drop Evocation, Enchantment and Necromancy to gain an insane number of spells from the most versatile school around. Each of your spells take up a single spellbook page, so make use of the tattoo alternate spellbook from the back of Complete Arcane. so you'll never be separated from the thing.

Maybe not as powerful as an incantatrix build, but still very, very strong and usable within any core + completes setting.

For feats you'll want collegiate wizard at level 1, craft contingent spell at level 12, and honestly whatever else you want for the guy.

[Solo]

MotAO is better for sorcerers than for wizards.

go Wizard/Master Specialist/Archmage and you'll do fine.

[Chronos]

For feats you'll want collegiate wizard at level 1,

Why? All that does is save you a few hundred gold on starting spells, which isn't nearly worth the price of a feat. Much better to get started on the spell focuses you'll need for PrCs (especially since the static bonuses are more significant at level 1), or pick up some metamagic.

[ZekeArgo]

Why? All that does is save you a few hundred gold on starting spells, which isn't nearly worth the price of a feat. Much better to get started on the spell focuses you'll need for PrCs (especially since the static bonuses are more significant at level 1), or pick up some metamagic.

All it does? It's free gold every level. Sure, 4 extra 1st level spells is only a savings of 100g, but 4th level spells? The free four are about 2800gp, and it only gets more and more expensive as your spell levels rise. This is doubly important when creating a character already at a higher level, since you *wont* get any DM hand-waived "oh and the guy had a spellbook with X rolled spells", which translates to giving the wizard free GP.

[Cuddly]

All it does? It's free gold every level. Sure, 4 extra 1st level spells is only a savings of 100g, but 4th level spells? The free four are about 2800gp, and it only gets more and more expensive as your spell levels rise. This is doubly important when creating a character already at a higher level, since you *wont* get any DM hand-waived "oh and the guy had a spellbook with X rolled spells", which translates to giving the wizard free GP.

Problem solved.

[TheOOB]

The best wizards have a wide assortment of spells to choose from. Colligate wizard not only saves money, allowing for more spells(and more money for other equiptment), but it also gives you more access to spells that may be difficult or impossible to find in some games. Not all DMs let you have access to any scroll from any source book you have.

Anyways, it's never a bad idea to fit up to 4 fatespinner levels if you can find room, a -4 penalty on an opponents saving throw is huge, not to mention you can make them reroll their successful save.

Also, Initiate of the sevenfold veil really isn't worth taking unless you max it out. With celerity available starting at level 7, the veils are only really that good if you can get pretty much complete immunity to everything. With only three levels you only have up to the yellow veil and you don't have reactive warding, so it's not really all that good.

[Cuddly]

He has full IOtSV; he just split up the levels at which he takes it.+

Wizard5/Fatespinner4/ISFV7/ArchMage4 may do it. If you take iron will, you can squeeze a level or two of incantatrix in there to get a bonus metamagic feat. You need 8 levels of that class to get the metamagic cost reduction, though.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

All it does? It's free gold every level. Sure, 4 extra 1st level spells is only a savings of 100g, but 4th level spells? The free four are about 2800gp, and it only gets more and more expensive as your spell levels rise. This is doubly important when creating a character already at a higher level, since you *wont* get any DM hand-waived "oh and the guy had a spellbook with X rolled spells", which translates to giving the wizard free GP.

Except if you have Geometer levels it's back down to 100gp per level at every level past that point.

My personal theoretical Batmans are either:

Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10/Archmage 5
or
Specialist Abjurer 3/Master Specialist 2/Incantatrix4/IotSFV 7/Incantarix 4

In either case I recommend taking Chain Spell, and Persist Spell and then apply both to various buff spells using Incantatrix's metamagic via spellcraft checks.

[ZekeArgo]

Replying to Cuddly and Chosen -

The scribing cost isn't what I'm talking about, it's the scroll cost. a single 5th level spell is worth well over 1000gp, so getting 4 for free, along with the rest of the gold your saving from the other free spells your getting means you are far better equiped and protected than a wizard *without* the feat.

Even at lower levels, the 100gp you didn't have to spend on scrolls to update your spellbook is the difference between a few potions that could easily swing things in your wizards favor.

[Keld Denar]

I like something like a Wiz3/MS5/DO2/LM3/FS4/AM3 or something. You double dip on the SF:Knowledge Religion for DO and LM, then recoup the feat with a secret. You cover most of your AM prereqs with MS, requiring only 1 other SF other than your specialty. LM also requires 3 metamagic or item creation feats, which shouldn't be hard to hit before level 10. DO gives you evasion(kinda) and so investing 1 feat in Insightful Reflexes might be worth while to get Int to reflex saves instead of dex.

I'd stay away from Focused Specialist because I don't really like to cut off a whole nother school of magic. I like to many different spells from Abjuration and Necromancy to drop either if I specialized in Conjouration or Transmutation. Evocation and Enchantment would be out the door though. I'd actually rather be a Diviner, just so I only have to drop one school, and it fits the DO/LM theme.

[Mr. Friendly]

Batman... build?

I don't understand...

The whole point of Batman is there is no "build" required.. just spell selection...

The point of Batman is that Wizards are broken - period. No fancy cheese needed, just broken all by themselves.

[DrizztFan24]

OK so I think I might have gotten one that works this time. You qualify for any prestige class on time and you take advantage of Archmage's Arcane Reach ASAP. Maybe you could trade out one of the ending levels of Fatespinner for another loremaster and then pick up 1 level in something else?

Wizard7/Lore Master2/ISFV3/Archmage2/ISFV4/Fatespinner2

Feats
-Wizard level 1: Scribe Scroll
Human: Skill focus (knowledge X)
Level 1: Smiting Spell
Level 3:Spell Focus (abjuration)
Wizard level 5:Chain Spell
Level 6:Greater spell Focus (abjuration)
Level 9:Skill focus (spell craft)
LoreMaster level 2: Spell focus (transmutation)

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Any reason you don't have 2 levels of MS in there? It has NO prereqs that you don't also need for ArchMage.

[Keld Denar]

OK so I think I might have gotten one that works this time. You qualify for any prestige class on time and you take advantage of Archmage's Arcane Reach ASAP. Maybe you could trade out one of the ending levels of Fatespinner for another loremaster and then pick up 1 level in something else?

Wizard7/Lore Master2/ISFV3/Archmage2/ISFV4/Fatespinner2

Feats
-Wizard level 1: Scribe Scroll
Human: Skill focus (knowledge X)
Level 1: Smiting Spell
Level 3:Spell Focus (abjuration)
Wizard level 5:Chain Spell
Level 6:Greater spell Focus (abjuration)
Level 9:Skill focus (spell craft)
LoreMaster level 2: Spell focus (transmutation)

Yeah, Master Specialist would net you 2 of the feats you have on there for free with just 2 levels. Also, if you are gonna take loremaster, you might as well try to squeeze 2 levels of Divine Oracle in there. It nets you 2 extra hp average with the d6 over the d4, and you get Prescience Sense, a super version of evasion and you add a few divination based cleric spells to your wizard list (including the amazing Commune).

[DrizztFan24]

I didn't include because I don't have the book for it ( i don't think i do anyways).

Otherwise With all the other classes that you guys are saying I should drop into this should I just abandon Initiate of the Seven Fold Veil?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

If you like cheese, keep the Initiate of the Sevenfold Velveeta. Master Specialist is awesome, but if you don't have the book it can be skipped.

[Kurald Galain]

Nice.

As an alternative option, might I suggest doing beguiler 1 / wizard 3 / master specialist 1 / ultimate magus, as the lead-in? Because UM has a rather nice option for free metamagic that is only matched by the incantatrix, and is easier to enter.

(and yes, you can tweak UM so that your 1st, 4th and 7th casting increase all count towards wizard, giving you 19/20 wizard levels by 20th)

[Mr. Friendly]

Nice.

As an alternative option, might I suggest doing beguiler 1 / wizard 3 / master specialist 1 / ultimate magus, as the lead-in? Because UM has a rather nice option for free metamagic that is only matched by the incantatrix, and is easier to enter.

(and yes, you can tweak UM so that your 1st, 4th and 7th casting increase all count towards wizard, giving you 19/20 wizard levels by 20th)

See with that cheese I prefer adding a pinch of Spellthief, only for Master Spellthief, allowing your steal spell level to be calculated off the total of all arcane caster levels and for all your arcane spell levels to all stack with each other to determine total caster level.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

Replying to Cuddly and Chosen -

The scribing cost isn't what I'm talking about, it's the scroll cost. a single 5th level spell is worth well over 1000gp, so getting 4 for free, along with the rest of the gold your saving from the other free spells your getting means you are far better equiped and protected than a wizard *without* the feat.

Even at lower levels, the 100gp you didn't have to spend on scrolls to update your spellbook is the difference between a few potions that could easily swing things in your wizards favor.

Except that you can get all your spells without ever resorting to scrolls. You get two free spells of X level, and the PHB specifically makes reference to equal level Wizards trading spells (IE allowing you to copy theres in exchange for copying yours.) Even if that weren't the case, it still has a listed price fro obtaining spells from the Spellbook of another Wizard (if he happens to be higher level then you) that is considerably cheaper then scroll costs. I don't know why anyone would think you need to buy Scrolls.

[ZekeArgo]

For the first point: no guarantee that another wizard would be willing to trade their arcane secrets with you, though I'll concede that it's a valid point. However to your 2nd point, where the heck is that listing? I've never seen it... is it in the spellcasting section of the PHB?