Traces of humanity after 250 million years

[Talya]

Over the next 5 billion years, Sol will burn steadily hotter, until it reaches the end of its main sequence and becomes a red giant.

Long before that time is up...long before even the 250 million year time frame you are discussing, earth will have grown far too hot to sustain life as we know it. I forget how long now, but I seem to remember it being on the scale of a hundred million years or so.

Humans have only been around for a million years or so, so it's rather stretching our luck to suggest we'll still be around by that time anyway. Of course, we can't find much for artifacts of civilization more than 3 thousand years old or so, with a few very rare items dating back 6-10 thousand years. You think we ever built any notable civilizations in the 990,000 years prior to that we existed? I imagine we did. Good luck ever learning about them, though.

[Bierhoff]

However, you also have to bear in mind that they figure close to half of all humans who have ever lived are currently alive, so we are currently making a much greater impact than we ever have before... by a long shot. Also there weren't many civilizations leaving things around to find more than 3,000 years ago and we've got a fare bit of stuff from the once that were back at least 5,000. Although that's rather that's rather inconsequential compared to the time frame of the initial post. All things considered though, I think we have surprisingly good knowledge about early life on earth.

Now, if you want to play around with strange things that'll happen to the earth in the future, the rotation of the planet is slowing down so that eventually there will be one face that is constantly facing the sun and one out to space. It'll sorta be like how there only one side of the moon ever faces Earth. granted we're only losing 2.2 seconds off the day every 100,000 years. But you know a world with a day side and a night side could make for interesting adventuring. All habitation would have to be some where in the dusk zone between the two.

[Solo]

Over the next 5 billion years, Sol will burn steadily hotter, until it reaches the end of its main sequence and becomes a red giant.

Long before that time is up...long before even the 250 million year time frame you are discussing, earth will have grown far too hot to sustain life as we know it. I forget how long now, but I seem to remember it being on the scale of a hundred million years or so.

Humans have only been around for a million years or so, so it's rather stretching our luck to suggest we'll still be around by that time anyway. Of course, we can't find much for artifacts of civilization more than 3 thousand years old or so, with a few very rare items dating back 6-10 thousand years. You think we ever built any notable civilizations in the 990,000 years prior to that we existed? I imagine we did. Good luck ever learning about them, though.

Ice core samples indicate that we are the only civilization so far to make extensive use of fossil fuels.

If you're suggesting that there were advanced civilizations before us, how do you suppose they made it without using fossil fuels for energy?

[Talya]

Ice core samples indicate that we are the only civilization so far to make extensive use of fossil fuels.

If you're suggesting that there were advanced civilizations before us, how do you suppose they made it without using fossil fuels for energy?

Oh, not as advanced. But remember, the pyramids of egypt and mt. rushmore and similar stone monuments will be around long after all other traces of our existence fade...i'm sure similar things have been made by other ancient civilizations before recorded history.

[Lupy]

Wow, no one has mentioned this yet. I believe we all agree that 250 million is too far to be realistic. Go read Shannara. There are a handful of ruined things (titanium girders in a handful of skyscrapers, plexiglass, concrete cities that have petrified)... And a mad computer with all of our current knowledge built to protect humanity, but not realising that the current civilization is humanity, and so attacking them with it's robos... Antrax anyone? A few books copied generation after genartion by the very old that contain knowlidge (maybe the Bible, the Quaran, the Torah, the Lord of the Rings, a few Reference books, D&D 7th edition...) world altering stuff no one wants to forget. And legends that one day God will free them from the Metal-ones...

[Neutrino]

Over the next 5 billion years, Sol will burn steadily hotter, until it reaches the end of its main sequence and becomes a red giant.

Long before that time is up...long before even the 250 million year time frame you are discussing, earth will have grown far too hot to sustain life as we know it. I forget how long now, but I seem to remember it being on the scale of a hundred million years or so.

I was actually under the impression it was closer to a billion years. If it is only 250 million, we should feel honoured to be part of the last, or second last group of animals to ever dominate the planet.

[AKA_Bait]

I was actually under the impression it was closer to a billion years. If it is only 250 million, we should feel honoured to be part of the last, or second last group of animals to ever dominate the planet.

Personally, I'm hoping for last and that some of us get out of dodge first. Not that I expect it.

Of course, perhaps we could end up with some magical vancian scenario (I'm sorry, I've just been reading Vance...)

[Emperor Tippy]

Personally, I'm hoping for last and that some of us get out of dodge first. Not that I expect it.

Of course, perhaps we could end up with some magical vancian scenario (I'm sorry, I've just been reading Vance...)

If we don't kill ourselves off within the next hundred years or so humanity as a species will survive. If we were inclined we could have a self sustaining colony on mars inside of 10 years. Same with the moon. And Venus.

Hell if we really wanted to we could send off ships to colonize other worlds. Although that would mean generational ships and a 50+ year trip.

And once humanity is off Earth with are immune to most things. And once we are out of the Sol system we are safe from everything as a species (unless FTL travel becomes possible, if that happens some plagues and bio weapons might stand a chance).

[Rutee]

Personally, I'm hoping for last and that some of us get out of dodge first. Not that I expect it.

I would. Look at how far we've gone after a measly what, 30,000 years?

[FlyMolo]

I would. Look at how far we've gone after a measly what, 30,000 years?

Trouble is, now we're up against Physics. And that's a beast. Because it may not be possible to travel faster than light. Ever. Faster computers, nanotech, etc etc might be possible eventually, but faster than light travel is only a chance, even given indefinite time.

But after 250 million years, you aren't going to find anything that's not buried. Fossils will be pervasive. Bits of pottery underground, Concrete. Assuming it's not subducted, of course. But concrete, with the rebar rusted out and buried could survive for 250 million years. Only fossilized and buried in rock, though.

[Doomsy]

It really depends on what we left behind to maintain the things we made. A nanotech colony with a dumb or fully functional AI could have mindlessly (or with utter boredom after the first few million years) maintained any number of things by itself. Otherwise, yeah. 250 million years is WAY too large a timeframe for much of anything to have survived save for space tech. Maybe a partial Dyson sphere, etc - imagine a night sky with NO stars save for the planets, except in certain areas.

[CthulhuM]

Trouble is, now we're up against Physics. And that's a beast. Because it may not be possible to travel faster than light. Ever. Faster computers, nanotech, etc etc might be possible eventually, but faster than light travel is only a chance, even given indefinite time.

Well, even given that FTL travel is impossible, that doesn't mean galactic colonization is also impossible. Combine some sort of mind uploading technology with von Neumann probes and you could easily seed the galaxy with human, or at least posthuman, life, even if it involves interstellar trips that take hundreds or thousands of years.

Obviously "easily" is a relative term here.

Oh, and, on another note, wikipedia puts the point at which Earth will grow too hot to support current forms of life at about 900 million years from now, though obviously there could be some incremental increases in temperature between now and then.

[Neutrino]

And once humanity is off Earth with are immune to most things. And once we are out of the Sol system we are safe from everything as a species (unless FTL travel becomes possible, if that happens some plagues and bio weapons might stand a chance).

Actually, there are quite a few things that are capable of terminating a small, interstellar empire. If two neutron stars were to collide or a supernova occur nearby, for instance, humanity's burgeoning little empire would be annihilated.

Of course, if we have FTL, it's a whole different story. There is absolutely nothing you cannot outrun so a supernova or neutron star collision, while probably quite deadly for anyone who doesn't happen to possess a superluminal ship, won't mean the end of humanity.

[Talya]

Because it may not be possible to travel faster than light.

It is not possible to travel faster than light. That's already proven.

However, it's also fairly well proven that one can create "shortcuts" through space and time. The chance is not that we'll find a way to move faster than light, because that can't be done. The chance is that we'll learn to do artificially what we already know happens naturally - curving ("Warping") space so that we've got a shorter route to travel.


As for other things that can kill a small interstellar civilization, a gamma ray burst would still make short work of us.

[Rutee]

Trouble is, now we're up against Physics. And that's a beast. Because it may not be possible to travel faster than light. Ever. Faster computers, nanotech, etc etc might be possible eventually, but faster than light travel is only a chance, even given indefinite time.

When has humanity not been facing physics?

[Emperor Tippy]

It is not possible to travel faster than light. That's already proven.

However, it's also fairly well proven that one can create "shortcuts" through space and time. The chance is not that we'll find a way to move faster than light, because that can't be done. The chance is that we'll learn to do artificially what we already know happens naturally - curving ("Warping") space so that we've got a shorter route to travel.

Actually if causality is true as currently written no version of FTL travel (even wormholes and hyperspace and the like) is possible. But no one has proven causality (and it won't be disproven until we get FTL travel or communications).

[Talya]

Causality is already partially untrue, it started that way.

Gravity (caused by the bending of space around massive objects) is not subject to the limits of lightspeed. Changes in gravitational fields affect all objects affected by them instantly.

[Emperor Tippy]

Gravity (caused by the bending of space around massive objects) is not subject to the limits of lightspeed. Changes in gravitational fields affect all objects affected by them instantly.

Got a reference? I have heard both that gravity is light speed limited and that it isn't light speed limited from people who should know what they are talking about. If gravity has actually been proven to be ftl well then that solves a big problem.

[Talya]

Got a reference? I have heard both that gravity is light speed limited and that it isn't light speed limited from people who should know what they are talking about. If gravity has actually been proven to be ftl well then that solves a big problem.

Several. It's a bit disputed, but the general consensus is that gravity propagates instantly, as Isaac Newton predicted centuries ago. A few years ago a couple scientists claimed to have proven that Gravity propagates at the speed of light, but peer review didn't agree with them.

http://metaresearch.org/cosmology/speed_of_gravity.asp
http://metaresearch.org/cosmology/gr...peed_limit.asp
http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...ed_030116.html
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physic...rav_speed.html

[Emperor Tippy]

Several. It's a bit disputed, but the general consensus is that gravity propagates instantly, as Isaac Newton predicted centuries ago. A few years ago a couple scientists claimed to have proven that Gravity propagates at the speed of light, but peer review didn't agree with them.

http://metaresearch.org/cosmology/speed_of_gravity.asp
http://metaresearch.org/cosmology/gr...peed_limit.asp
http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...ed_030116.html
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physic...rav_speed.html

Again, its still very disputed. If gravity propagates FTl it ****s up General Relativity in a big way. Experimental evidence has been claimed by both sides to support their position but as far as I know, no definitive answer or consensus has emerged.

I am personally against causality (at least the its impossible to send information FTL in any way) but its not a decided issue.

[Greenfaun]

First, I just want to say, this is such a cool thread. Hooray for unmitigated geekery.

Next: What about gold? Barring Aqua Regia, it doesn't really react with anything. It's highly susceptible to erosion and reshaping, of course, but if the planet hasn't been inhabited in the meantime, an archaeological dig might unearth gold bars that still have the bank marks of modern financial institution stamped into them. Or not, 250 million is really a long time...

Speaking of which, to the OP, is there a reason it's 250 million specifically? 250 thousand would be enough to completely wipe surface features clean of marks of civilization, and a lot of evolution to happen on whatever's left around, but there could still be a few ruins and monuments and physical traces. 250 million will mean animals will be biologically unrecognizeable, and practically nothing will realistically have survived to give you the "Oh crap, it's earth!" moment.

[Yahzi]

No trace of humanity would be left on earth.

Now in space is a potentially different story.

I think the only thing left in 250 million years would be the remains of the moon landings.

Unless they got hit by a meteor.