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2010-02-10, 04:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
I did you one better. As listening to what people is saying is hardly an overpowered ability, all telepathic and magical messages within 100 feet are picked up. Also, you gain a hefty bonus to sense motive checks made to detect secret messages.
Moving on, I'd like to take this opportunity to talk about a very rare instance of 20/20 foresight on my part. I realized just yesterday that most of the links on the front page don't go anywhere, that the threads have been deleted.
My initial thoughts cannot be posted here as they'd just get censored anyways.
When I calmed down, I got a second idea. Maybe I had already copied and pasted them earlier; anticipating the danger, perhaps.
After a quick search, I found what I was looking for. In fact, I was apparently so forward thinking that I decided to quote the material rather than just copying and pasting, meaning that the creators still get credit and that much of the coding is still there. I'd like to take a moment to thank the me of two years prior for his amazing foresight and to give you guys a brief warning:
Although I intend to repost everything in the next couple of posts and will take care of any coding issues, I have not reread through everything prior to this reposting and their stuff will go up unedited (reading through the mess of code would make my eyes bleed). I linked to pretty much all shadow magic material that I could find at the time (which wasn't much, sadly) and though I remember thinking most of it was balanced, it is quite possible that I was blinded by raw fandom and didn't give it a critical look.
That said, I have no intention of violating the creator's creative rights by drastically altering (or fixing) their creations and calling it theirs (is there a word for reverse-plaigerism?). What I will do, however, is add my personal commentary and a few suggestions for easier use (if needed) at the end of each homebrew. I will also take responsibility for completing the Wildhaunt mystery list once the rest of this project is complete.
With all of that out of the way, let's start with the 100+ pages of material produced by other fans.I'm try not to be too vain but this was too perfect not to sig.
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2010-02-10, 04:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
Shadowcaster recharge magic, written by Xylem
Commentary and Recommendations:
As much as I have strived to prove that shadowcasters don't need "fixing", I do admit that this is probably the simplest fix that I have ever seen and the one that I'd be most likely to use.
It makes shadowcasting different and more powerful. The only hard part about using it in combination with Descent of Shadows would be creating recharge times for each mystery, a task that I'd rather not undertake myself. *shudders*
Tainted Shadowcaster alternate class feature, written by LordArchaon
Commentary and Recommendations:
Reminiscing:SpoilerAhh, LordArchaon. Back when I was working on the wizards boards, LordArchaon and I were the most proactive producers of shadow magic materia and I really respected his work. Good times, good times.
This ability is a nice one, putting a darker spin on the shadowcaster (or perhaps only some of them, as this is an alternate class feature). It's pretty balanced as more powerful mysteries make you go crazy faster. At first glance, I was tempted to say that recovering all of your taint in one night was too powerful. Then I realized what this ability is really doing and I was enlightened. This ability provides shadowcasters with the bonus mysteries per day for a high ability score that they've always wanted. That this ability gives you more MAD, steals a couple potential metashadow feats, and makes you crazy may actually make this ability a bit underpowered.
Still, I think that it is perfectly playable as is, although only playtesting will tell.Last edited by Realms of Chaos; 2010-02-10 at 04:31 AM.
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2010-02-10, 04:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
Last edited by Realms of Chaos; 2010-02-10 at 05:43 AM.
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2010-02-10, 04:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
The Shadow Nefarite PrC, written by LordArchaon: Part 2
Commentary and Recommendations:
This class is certainly big, isn't it. It uses an interesting bit of flavor by relating shadow magic to the abyss rather than too the plane of shadows. Whether or not you like that is a matter of taste, I suppose.
Unfortunately, many classes that no longer exist anywhere are mentioned, making it look a bit more useful than it is (note that the art of the assassin is still usable as that link still works).
The mysteries are pretty much par for the course and could be introduced without the PrC without much trouble (except for maybe one or two of the fundametals).
As a side-note, the abyssal markings feat is pretty darn broken. I would not allow it as a DM and I recommend against it for other DMs.Last edited by Realms of Chaos; 2010-02-10 at 06:34 AM.
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2010-02-10, 05:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
i have played a lot with taint to say that "tainted shadowcaster variant" is really balanced. (i would go to the point to say a bit underpowered cause most of the ppl that play with taint, are undeads or demons to have imune to the negative effects :P)
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2010-02-10, 05:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
as promised after a 3hrs session i have conclutions:
the party had:
shadowcaster/shadow necromancer/taint scolar (he was the save-or-die)
shadowcaster/psyon/cerebrus (he abused desires manifest by dominating commoners with mind switch power)
shadowcaster/sorceror/nocturalmancer (i was the controler by counterspeling, slowing enemies and force ppl losing actions)
shadowcaster/warlock/abyss (she was our balster)
what we understanded:
-shadowcasters do not need so many +DC feats cause most of the save-or-die are high lvl
-missing a piercing cold ecuivelant forcing our blaster spamming killing shadows
-players can abuse anything
-u only need CL to counterspell other ppl, shadowcasters do not need it for SR
-our necromanster found the shadow necromaster really dark-themed and fun to play. he suggested lowering the duration of dead walks (1day/lvl) to hours/lvl cause u can not heal it anyway so u have to reaplace your spawn each day
-our blaster kept whining cause everything we encountered had either resistance or imunity (no only to cold but every element) (i really saw that comming from the start, cause all spellcaster-enemies where casting "friendly fire" and most mobs had huge deflection/insight AC, (and bosses had huge reff and imp evetion)
-i uses peacenlove paths for untimagic and dispell and gg
- may i suggest a feat that (maybe path mastery for shadowstorm): Improved Conduction: You cast a cold spell followed by an
electricity spell. The lingering cold more effectively conducts
the electricity, temporarily fatiguing creatures. Living creatures
damaged by both spells are slowed for 1 round (as the
slow spell). Creatures that make successful Fortitude saves
(DC based on the second spell) are fatigued for 1 round.
(ENERGY GESTALT [TACTICAL] from complete mage)
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2010-02-10, 06:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
A very good mix to go with. Nice.
Okay, let's address this more or less in order.
Points 1 and 6. Traditionally, I do agree that save DC boosters are best used for save-or-die effects. However, there are a vast number of effects that allow saving throws but don't end the game immediately. If your opponent keeps succeeding, you aren't doing your best.
As an example, look at your blaster character. If the blaster had found a way to work in some DC boosting feats in amongst the metashadow feats, high reflex saves and improved evasion wouldn't have hurt quite as much.
Also, even if the number of such feats are simply rediculous, having more than one option to achieve the same end gives you more versatility in building characters.
Point 2. Here is a piercing-cold-equivalent feat to remedy the problem, except that it works with all elements (once again, really helping that blaster).
Deepshade Mystery [Metashadow]
You can replace the elemental damage of your attack with pure shadowstuff.
Prerequisites: Subduing Mystery
Benefits: Once per day, you may apply the effect of Deepshade Mystery to any mystery you cast that deals energy damage. Half of all elemental damage that the mystery would otherwise deal ignores all energy resistances and immunities.
Furthermore, if the affected mystery would normally allow for a reflex save, you may choose to replace it with a Will save.
Casting a Deepshade Mystery is a full-round action.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times.
Point 3: Yes they can. They've been doing so for years and they'll keep on doing it.
Point 4: don't forget that most mysteries get better in some way as your CL goes up. Unless you are using a touch or personal spell with a level-capped effect, increased CL will do something, even if it's only increasing the range of your mysteries.
Point 5: I'm not sure that I understand what is wrong with the Walking Dead mystery. You have no maximum number of undead so keeping damaged ones with you doesn't hold you back in any way that I can see. Furthermore, don't forget that you can gather undead for 10 days or so and then march in with a large(r) army, something that couldn't happen if the duration was reduced.
Point 7: I would also use Peacenlove's mysteries for that purpose.
So your asking me to make a feat that grants you a single benefit of a single tactical feat that maybe only one build of shadowcaster would ever, ever use... Seems a bit too situational. How about the following?
Unifying Theories
Your mysteries can be made to act as spells in certain situations.
Prerequisites: Arcane Acknowledgement or Divine Acknowledgement
Benefits: Any feat, ability, or effect that normally targets or functions on spells or spell-like abilities of a specific subschool or descriptor now function on all mysteries with such descriptors.
Now you can take Arcane Acknowledgement followed by Unifying Theories followed by the actual Energy Gestalt.I'm try not to be too vain but this was too perfect not to sig.
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2010-02-10, 06:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
Metashadow Feats and Mysteries by Phalse One
Commentary and Recommendations:
Yeah, it was reading this stuff that inspired me to start homebrewing and I still feel that it is awesome. The metashadow feats seem pretty good and many of the mysteries are awesome (at least in my opionion).
The Forgotten Ruins mystery is my favorite one of all time, even now. It just captures the ancient and wierd feel of shadow magic just right and...no, RoC, this is not the time to start ranting.
You should be able to run these in most campaigns without much problems, but there may be certain situations in which one or two becomes horribly overpowered (chain mystery, perhaps?) when things are taken to extreme lengths. I really can't tell at the moment but I'll take a closer look later on.Last edited by Realms of Chaos; 2010-02-10 at 06:46 AM.
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2010-02-10, 07:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
Shadow Savant Base Class by Eldritch_Lord
Commentary and Recommendations:
Not much to say. This class works and I would love the chance to play as one some day. There are a couple of nit-picks, of course, but nothing that isn't quickly solved with common sense or a quick talk with the DM (such as how you are granted entire paths of mysteries even though it is not stated as such or how embrace the darkness should not reduce the wisdom damage you take from Dissociative Personality)Last edited by Realms of Chaos; 2010-02-10 at 07:24 AM.
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2010-02-10, 09:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
Phalse One's work is really really great. everything is really cool and looks balanced (even chain i will test it on next session). my only question is Dark ward.. evation is not that much (there is ring for it ) but mettle? the only way that i would find this logical was as imed action and for 1r(maybe cause its highlvl usable on others too). we should not make the mistake the original shadowcaster had (1 trick pony) by giving him every ability any class could have (the only class feature i have not seen on a feat is rage)
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2010-02-10, 06:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
Actually, I don't see mettle as "granting every possible ability". It actually seems quite fitting for the class. The shadowcaster has both good Fort and Will saves, uses a greatly different brand of magic, and fortifies their body using their magic. Mettle is a means of using their magic to fortify their body against most magical effects, something that works really well.
As far as a crunch perspective, I once again understand that mettle becomes seriously powerful at epic levels. Even so, consider the fact that this ability scales in absolutely no other way. I find it nice that this ability becomes more useful as time goes on without increasing its bonuses in any way. Besides, without the immediate-action activation you suggest, this guy is still pretty vulnerable to ambushes (as the duration can only be raised to a max of 2 minutes through extend mystery).
On an interesting side-note, there is indeed a feat that grants the rage class feature, albeit under certain conditions. Check Savage Species to see what I'm talking about.
Anyways...
Umbral Stalker monster by LivingShadow
Commentary and Recommendations:
Despite this creature's extreme similarity with the ephemeral hangman in the Tome of Magic, I believe that this creature has its uses, perhaps to be used alongside the aforementioned creature in a shadow-themed dungeon (throw in some shadow mastiffs, some shadow elementals, a shadow or two, and an ancient evil [a nightwalker] to accidentally set free at the end and you're set).
I'd suggest two small differences when running this creature. First of all, as it doesn't state how long the creature remains silenced, I'd set it for 5 rounds or so. Secondly, I would double the HP of the extradimensional pocket. Level 7 characters won't have much problem breaking out unless they don't have any light weaponry, in which case I'd allow characters to punch their way out with unarmed strikes, but that's just me.Last edited by Realms of Chaos; 2010-02-10 at 06:58 PM.
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2010-02-10, 07:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
Umbral Edgemaster PrC by Sleepwalker
Commentary and Recommendations:
This thing looks fairly balanced, if a bit bland. It's always nice to see support for a potential martial-shadowcaster, mind you, but it does come across as a bit bland. It only has one unique ability, one that strikes me as rather "meh". Even so, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the class itself (as far as I can see, anyway).
The maneuvers and mysteries, however, are another story. The umbral shield stance is very overpowered, nearly to the same level as ironheart surge. Instead of making 8 attacks miss, I would treat this effect as a mirror image spell with 8 duplicates made (or even better, 1 duplicate/2 initiator levels, maximum 8). Still plenty powerful but nothing broken.
The nocturnal blade path is an odd path. On the one hand, it is giving out free magical items (and very expensive ones, at that). On the other hand, the duration is short and very few shadowcasters stand a chance in close combat. I also note that the brilliant energy ability given to obsidian edge is an interesting twist, acknowledging how mysteries have a hard time harming undead but creating light (something that mysteries almost never do). as a consequence. I'd suggest adding a note that the brilliant energy quality provides only shadowy illumination in a 10-foot radius. Also to keep things from getting out of hand, I'd switch the durations of umbral blade and obsidian edge.
With that said and done, nocturnal blade makes a decent lesser version of the gish-based master path Peacenlove created.I'm try not to be too vain but this was too perfect not to sig.
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2010-02-10, 07:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
Last edited by Realms of Chaos; 2010-02-10 at 08:07 PM.
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2010-02-10, 08:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
Commentary and Recommendations:
Ah, the Wildhaunt. I helped LordArchaon form this class back in the day and I'll tell you the same thing now that I told him back then (if a bit more bluntly). Cheese Ahoy!
Seriously, you get 2 (stacking) fear effects, a supply of super-versatile minions, and the ability to animate plants... in just the first 4 levels, not including mysteries and fluff features.
When you get to Nocturnal trance, things get really, really crazy. Dark Template, +4 charisma, channel mysteries through other sources for tactical advantage and range enhancement, and you get extra mysteries. As you level up, the charisma bonus increases, you get even more extra mysteries, you gain a nightmare aura, you improved your mysteries, you assume lycanthropic forms, gain extra movement and even gain the tauric template (with a downside easily overcome by a twinked out Will save), and you can become incorporeal. Considering that this guy can eventually make its mysteries extraordinary (and thus usable in any circumstance), I'm inclined to say that this is overpowered to the umpteenth degree.
First of all, I suggest that you allow the trance to last 10 minute/3 levels during the night or 1 round/3 levels during the day so that a)the wildhaunt isn't worthless during the daytime and so b)the wildhaunt might need more than 2 trances. During the day, prevent all enhancements to the nocturnal trance other than improved nocturnal trance and superior nocturnal trance from functioning.
Next, tone down the nocturnal wildshape to only last a number of rounds equal to your charisma modifier per use (at least causing frequent saving throws), make the aberrant features only last a number of minutes equal to your charisma modifier (same reason), and limit the form of night to 1 round/level of use each day rather than each trance.
Lastly, make it so that nocturnal trance (and its enhancements) to not grant bonus mysteries and so that you gain perpetual light blindness at all times starting at 5th level (as 12 hours after each use means always being light blind during the day, which is pretty much the only time you'd deal with that anyway). That should be sufficient to keep the ability roughly balanced.
As for additional changes, I'd move a thousand faces to level 12 (if just to put something in the dead level), move trackless step to 3rd level (to prevent the current front-loading of abilities), and specifically rule that any mystery or supernatural class feature made extraordinary in some way continues to function on incorporeal creatures as if still supernatural.
Wildhaunt Mystery List, by LordArchaon
Commentary and Recommendations:
Not much to comment on or recommend, here. It's an incomplete list of the wildhaunt's "mystery list". None of these mysteries were even created, although I once again vow to make them myself once this project is complete.
A Couple Wildhaunt Master Paths, Written by, well, Me...
SpoilerHopelessly Lost
Master, Dark Wanderings
Level/School: 7th/Necromancy
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
Muttering a few dark curses, you render the target’s mind anathema to all reason and direction.
The touched creature automatically fails all survival checks, regardless of simplicity. This means that the target cannot find their way out of a closet without assistance. They are still able to be led by others or to follow objects they can see, however.
In addition, the target takes a –10 penalty on all listen, spot, and search checks.
Ebon Trail
Master, Dark Wanderings
Level/School: 8th/Conjuration (teleportation)
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Effect: one temporary portal/round
Duration: 1 round/level
As you riddle shadowstuff about the area, you attach the area together in ways that geometry would normally deny.
While this mystery is active, once per round as a swift action, you may dictate one 5-foot square within range to be the entrance to a portal and another 5-foot square within to be the exit of that portal. The portal is invisible, although it can be detected by appropriate magic.
The exit square need be on the ground but the ground need not be sturdy (it is possible to place an exit square over quicksand, for instance). One square may serve as multiple exits but no more than one entrance.
All portals last until the end of this mystery’s duration.
Journey to Nowhere
Master, Dark Wanderings
Level/School: 9th/Abjuration
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Saving throw: Reflex negates
Spell Resistance: No
You open a small pocket into shadows at the feet of your foe, trapping them within their own shadow for all time.
This mystery functions as the imprisonment spell, with the above exceptions. When a target is trapped by this ability, their shadow remains, marking the precise spot where someone could cast freedom to save them.
Release Nature's Ire
Master, Angered Wild
Level/School: 7th/Transmutation
Range: touch
Area: 100 ft./level radius
Duration: One round/level and one day/level
Saving Throw: Will partial
Spell Resistance: Yes
Reaching deep into the depths of natural shadow, you find a well of hatred and fury left from times untold. Allowing some of this power to seep out, you seize control of it.
All tiny or larger animals within the area of this mystery must make a will save or increase in size, as per the enlarge animal spell for 1 round/level. In addition, all other living creatures except yourself and up to one selected individual/level must make will saves or become confused for 1 round/level. Even upon a success, they are dazed for 1 round.
In addition, the casting of this mystery lets loose some of nature's ire into the world. All animals within the area gain a +4 bonus to their Strength, Constitution, and Dexterity scores for as long as they remain in the area. Any other creature other than fey who enters the area becomes fatigued for as long as they remain. In addition, each night of this mystery's duration, for so long as they remain within the area, all animals are treated as being hostile and all other creatures are treated as unfriendly towards all creatures other than animals and fey. Even allies or relatives may be divided by this effect.
Rebellious Growth
Master, Angered Wild
Level/School: 8th/Transmutation
Range: Touch
Area: 100 ft./level radius
Duration: One day/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial; Reflex partial
Spell Resistance: No
Forcing yourself deep into the recesses of nature, you find a potential for untamed and unruly growth in all plants around you. You simply help the plant find this potential.
All inanimate plants within range become thick and overgrown as if by the overgrowth function of the plant growth spell. In addition, all of these plants of small size grow light undergrowth out to 5 feet, all plants of medium size grow dense undergrowth out to 5 feet, and all larger plants grow dense udnergrowth out another 5 feet per size category larger than medium.
In addition, all small or larger inanimate plants start bearing miscolored fruit. This fruit has an unbearable scent, causing everyone within the area of this mystery to make fortitude saves when entering this area and every 10 minutes thereafter to avoid becoming sickened for as long as they remain in the area. This scent cannot be detected by animals. The fruit, if eaten, provides no nourishment.
In addition, each minute that an individual spends in the area of this mystery, they must make a reflex save or accidentally puncture themselves upon a poisonous thorn or briar or otherwise brush against some poisonous surface (contact poison, fortitude DC=mystery DC, initial damage 2d6 Con, secondary damage 2d6 Con). Those hustling, charging, or running through the area are not allowed saving throws.
This mystery possesses no ability to create or alter plants where there are none.
Forest of Night
Master, Angered Wild
Level/School: 9th/Conjuration (creation)
Range: Touch
Area: 1-mile radius
Duration: One day/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial; Reflex Partial
Having reached the heart of nature's true potential, you see a blackened forest of deepest shadows. You grab this image and drag it back with you, forcing it into reality.
By means of this mystery, you create a dense forest within the area, creating trees and undergrowth where needed. This rearrangement of the geography requires everyone within the area to make a reflex save or fall prone. Particularly stable creatures such as dwarves and quadrapeds gain a +4 bonus on this save. In addition, this sudden creation of new plants damages structures, dealing each one 10d6 damage, ignoring hardness.
This forest possesses several interesting properties. Within it, the range of all light sources are halved and all attacks suffer from a 20% miss chance. During the night, things become more treacherous. First of all, all survival checks made within the forest during the night take a penalty equal to your caster level. Secondly, every 10 minutes that someone wanders through the forest, they must make a fortitude save or become immobilized for 10 minutes. If someone fails three consecutive fortitude saves, they disappear, never to be seen again. Only true resurrection, wish, or miracle can return them back to life. If an immobilized target is removed from the forest, they remain immobilized until the end of that 10 minute period.
You are immune to the forest's nocturnal effects and are not at risk of falling prone when you cast this mystery but you are subject to the forest's constant effects as normal.
Commentary and Recommendations:
As I said earlier, I played a part in helping to shape the wildhaunt into what it was (even though LordArchaon wanted to purposefully overpower it to make it the druid of shadow magic users). Creating these mysteries was just one way in which I helped. They were appraised by LordArchaon when I created them and I don't have much else to say.
Shadow Abyss Wildhaunt Master Path, by LordArchaon
Commentary and Recommendations:
Wow...big worm.
Um... All that I can really say is that I'd consider having the black sky ocean force a creature coming into contact with it to hold their breath or immediately start drowning, instead of just plain drowning.Last edited by Realms of Chaos; 2010-02-10 at 08:35 PM.
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2010-02-10, 08:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
Something I noticed. In the shadowgaunt fluff you mentioned that they can't see in colour, but make no mention of it in their racial traits. You also mention under Low-light Vision that they retain the ability to distinguish colour.
OwrthoTablesWant them to look nice? Have a guide
My Homebrew
[creature]Shiny: Monster Competition XXXVI entry.
[class]Wisp fire guide: Follow me. I have such sights to show you.
[class]Ozodrin: A class to play as an eldritch horror.
other hombrew
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2010-02-10, 08:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
Stalker Base Class, Written by bkdubs123
Commentary and Recommendations:
This is one of the more balanced and streamlined classes that I've seen for shadow magic. It fits the role of a "rogue" perfectly and does so without becoming too weak or too powerful. I like this class and see nothing wrong with it. The one concession that I will make, however, is that this class, being so balanced, is probably very difficult to abuse or break. As such, it would feel underpowered in a campaign like the one CaBaal is running.
I'm sorry for not posting up the shineguard class that is mentioned in the introduction but I do believe that it was never actually completed.
Factotum Alternate Class Feature, Written by SilchasRuin
Commentary and Recommendations:
This thing works quite well. That it gives you some fundamentals for free sweetens the deal but taking advanage of this requires adding to MAD to the otherwise Intelligence-based Factotum.
Although it is balanced, however, I do worry about it granting access to different master mysteries each day, something that no other shadow magic class can do so far. As such, I would be tempted to limit the maximum spell level to 1/4 class levels, grant the factotum 1 mystery/2 levels, and maybe requiring 2 mysteries of one level before you could select mysteries of the next. When dealing with shadow magic, removing all restrictions makes something a far superior option.Last edited by Realms of Chaos; 2010-02-10 at 08:55 PM.
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2010-02-10, 09:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
Well, I think that I have finally caught up with everything that was preventing me from moving forward.
A bunch of fixes taken care of? Check
Add information previously held in links to now-defunct threads? Check
Alter and augment links (including a new link to that harbinger class I was looking for earlier)? Check
Add some more material that was submitted to me via PM? Check.
Add a couple names to the special thanks post? Double-check.
Okay, time to move onwards, then.
Edit: Fix the shadowgaunt? checkLast edited by Realms of Chaos; 2010-02-10 at 09:24 PM.
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2010-02-10, 10:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
Luckily, it seems that I forgot one more thing that I had saved, something that I may have even forgotten to link to in the first place. Either way, enjoy this large batch of mysteries:
A whole bunch of Mysteries, by TheAnthroDM, Dracomortis, and Talisman
Spoiler
Comments and Recommendations:
Some of you out there may note that there have always been certain spell effects that I was never really willing to put into the form of mysteries. The reason for this was because I didn't want to plaigurize (well, not much, anyways).
In any case, I love almost all of these mysteries, all 54 of them. Inside the spoilers you will find goodies such as an apprentice "necromancer" path, proper replacements for simulacrum and meteor swarm, and many other goodies besides.
Important Note:
I just did a tabulation and with all of the mysteries listed in or linked to with this thread (plus those in the Tome of Magic), there is a grand total of about 378 mysteries/fundamentals in existance (more if Peacenlove provides a link to his celestial mysteries).
To give an idea of just how many that is, the player's handbook has about 371 spells for the Wizard (if you use the full SRD, you also get genesis and a couple spells from the psionic handbook). In otherwords, adding this thread and the Tome of Magic to an otherwise SRD game means that both the wizard and the shadowcaster have about an equally-sized spell-list.
This requires a celebration. Who brought the champaign?Last edited by Realms of Chaos; 2010-02-10 at 10:58 PM.
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2010-02-10, 11:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
Wow, thanks for putting that where I could find it. That pretty much perfectly combines the shadowsworn (from the Book of Roguish Luck) and shadow caster (something I'd been looking for awhile back).
Also seems like that was the intent given the abilities (shadow familiar, shadow self, and shade form seem to be almost the same as the shadowsworn, while blind strike looks to be an adapted version of the blind class ability).
Quite nice overall, as I'd considered the main flaw of the shadowsworn to be that it just used a shadow themed spell list rather than shadow magic.
Also, just thought I'd point out there seems to be a typo in the description of the Shadowstrike ability when it first mentions blind strike.
And I forgot to mention it before, but what is a Shadowgaunt's type?
And as a side thought, I noticed you reserved a post for a third race in case you thought of one, and figured I might suggest the idea of a race that has an affinity for shadow magic not due to being shadowy itself, but by producing a light or some such that manages to enhance enhance the clarity of shadows (due to shadows being sharper the closer they are to the object and bigger the closer the object is to the light source). Thus making shadow magic stronger around them, but less effective when used on them.
OwrthoLast edited by Owrtho; 2010-02-11 at 12:23 AM.
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2010-02-11, 02:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
just finished a session (i am so danm sleepy now..) every path i used seemed balansed(nice for a lyric-song) nothing i casted seem too powerfull or dominated the game (we have a tainted dread necromaster for that). also we had 2 new guys with as the 1st has access only on core books+some "complete" ones and the 2nd had a guy named "thedude" (1 word) psyon/monk/half golem that he attacked with +96 and 99999 items on him (he actually held 3 weapons and 2 shields to give him bonuses) and permanet starmantle(book of exalted deeds)+evation to have imune vs melee attacks. our dm killed him 3 times (1 by an epic dragon,2 times in the same ecounter by a balor with caster lvls)
anyhow comparing with the warmage of our team (she never abuses her chars) shadowcaster was doing fine (i used chain metashadow as it is and gave my DM no problems, the enemies have a chance to cut the damage to 1/4, but the best use i got it was with shadows fade gr)
PS:if u want to die really fast just make an abused char and go in front of the dm and say: "u do not know how to play d&d! i will solo what ever u bring on the table!"
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2010-02-11, 03:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
Here you go. A toast to Darkness!!
I uploaded the most recent versions of my celestial mysteries and monsters to this thread. I waited for them to be playtested but it seems that i won't gather a party soon enough so i present them as they are
WARNING! i will return to format them in a more appropriate form when i have time.
Soon i will link the Dark store and various other feats and subtitution levels residing in my various notebooks in separate threads
EDIT: Are you planning to brew path masteries for the paths created by those that you list above? Because i could handle it i believe, i have some ideas in my notebooks and i will post them soon (but most probably i will PM you).Last edited by peacenlove; 2010-02-11 at 04:30 AM.
Complete Shadow Magic! for Pathfinder Rules. (Google Docs PDF)
Newest: Shadowcaster Archetypes
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2010-02-11, 06:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
I can probably handle making the path mastery feats but it'll take a day or three to work through all of them.
I just figured out the optimal build for the Midnight Seer class. As it can change its mystery access on a daily basis, you take shadowcraft feats to make "scrolls" or "potions" of items before switching your mysteries the next day. For even more fun, wait until you get the contingent mystery feat, letting you use your Shadow Cascade and contingent mysteries to get a butload of mysteries cast in a single round at pre-epic levels.I'm try not to be too vain but this was too perfect not to sig.
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2010-02-11, 06:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
:O omg thats a lot of mysteries i have not seen everything yet but, and i am saying this to everyone, becarefull not to make shadowcaster a generalist wizard that everything he does looks shadowy it will ruin the flavor of the char
the darkness is wise and protects everyone who love it
I am making a 50lvl char for the session later (the last boss most probably has divine rank) i will check the epic feats/seeds
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2010-02-11, 06:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
Actually, we should consider refraining ourselves from making too many more mysteries for the precise reason.
We have a good supply. You can make just about any spellcaster with the supply of mysteries out there but there are some things wizards do that you don't (and visa-versa).I'm try not to be too vain but this was too perfect not to sig.
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2010-02-11, 07:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
While your concern is valid and all boils down to personal opinion, i envision the shadowcaster as a specialist. If he wants to specialize in something let him do it, the small number of mysteries (20 or 30 if you use my variant, less or more than half of what a sorcerer can get with no means of learning more, except by using some feats above) will do more than prevent the "generalist wizard" problem. After all shadow energy is just an alternate form of magic. However i agree that extra care should be taken not to make the mysteries be like "as the spell xyz" but make it with unique and more important balanced effects. After all the biggest balance problem for the wizard its his spell list something that the shadowcaster doesn't have.
Edit: 50 lvl? there is no balance there my friend >.> Have fun thoughLast edited by peacenlove; 2010-02-11 at 07:03 AM.
Complete Shadow Magic! for Pathfinder Rules. (Google Docs PDF)
Newest: Shadowcaster Archetypes
WIP:Wordcasting Shadowcaster
Previous games: Life in Hell
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2010-02-11, 11:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
50 lvl session is fun to play u die every round, u kill atleast everything 2-3 times, keep epic spells for the big guys (most probably it 1shot) and hope u have good rolls
by the temp "Generalist wizard" i ment that shadowcaster is a focused caster. when u see a warmage u expect him to cast a fireball(or something like that) and top dps meters, when u see a necromancer u expect him a slay living spell and to have undead with him. So by that, personaly, when i see a shadowcaster i expect him to cast darkness-spells, illutions, and other stuff to hinder the enemies, as for damage he will not be last but neither the 1st in dps meter.
PS: i play a lot of wow dps meter=all the damage u done in the session counted by round to round bases
when we play test we keep track how much damage(healing/Croud controls/game changing points) we did and we call it "dps meter" as a left-over when we played wow sorry for the confution
EDIT: invisible pyre has no max cl (i am guessing 10d6)
EDIT: typo on Shadow Vivisection u say stun and then u say dazed
EDIT: Scholarly Shadowcaster should not benefit from enchantment bonuses on intLast edited by CaBaaL; 2010-02-12 at 12:35 PM.
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2010-02-11, 02:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
DPS is actually damage per second, and refers to the average amount of damage that something can deal within a second, usually by taking the amount dealt over a few seconds and averaging it since certain moves, abilities, attacks, etc. in games take multiple seconds to complete.
It is also often given in a range, by giving the minimum amount of damage per second and the maximum.
In DnD it would likely be simplified to rounds rather than seconds, though one could still find the DPS as a round is defined as lasting 6 seconds in DnD.
And I apologize for the off topic post.
OwrthoLast edited by Owrtho; 2010-02-11 at 02:06 PM.
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[creature]Shiny: Monster Competition XXXVI entry.
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other hombrew
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2010-02-14, 03:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
just finished a 20lvl session. i will say my conclutions tomorow. and i really look forword for the new path-mastery feats. btw i talk to a friend and he said that he uses this fix
http://www.myth-weavers.com/showthread.php?t=26711
what do u think of these stuff? 10 mysteries at 20 lvl are enough to throw shadowcaster of balance? (the rest suggestions not that much)
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2010-02-15, 12:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
Okay, this is a tricky one. As I have already said, I generally don't like the idea of "fixes" because there are so many of them and they are often mutually exclusive/overpowered when put together. One big purpose of this thread was to show that a shadowcaster could be playable without a fix.
That said, how good is this fix?
1. Extra skill points don't seem uneccessary as this class definitely does need Intelligence, if not as much as a wizard.
2. More BAB is interesting. There aren't too many ray or touch mysteries but this makes them better, not to mention allowing you to attack with a crossbow if/when out of mysteries. On the fence here.
3. This is the most important fix, I see. Let's look at this from a tier perspective. The shadowcaster, before adding supplementary material, is a tier 4 class (or was it a low tier 3?). With more mysteries to choose from and feats/alternate features that allow more mystery access (some stuff posted in this thread), this thing is pushed well into tier 3 territory.
With 10 more mysteries, the question becomes... what happens? You get mysteries per day about on par with an optomized wizard without a specialization but you are still below the wizard's baseline (without scroll/spellbook cheese) spell acquisition rate.
Tier 2 is reserved for classes that can perform astoundingly in certain circumstances but not in others. Tier 1 is reserved for classes that either break the game in some way or that can deal with any problem equally well. As neither of these describe the altered shadowcaster, it must be assumed that the shadowcaster becomes a high tier 3 class.
We get a problem, however, when we combine the fix with stuff from this megapost. If shadowcasters get accelerated mystery access, what would you do if players wanted to try a cultist, hallow, eventide magus, midnight seer, or a stalker (a remote chance, but still worth asking). Also, if you pair the fix with the shadow tome feat, you end up with a shadowcaster on par with a sorcerer, suddenly boosting the class to tier 2.
Long answer short. The fix itself is good if you can convince your DM but it becomes pretty broken when combined with some stuff posted here.
I'll start posting up the path mastery feats shortly.Last edited by Realms of Chaos; 2010-02-15 at 01:00 AM.
I'm try not to be too vain but this was too perfect not to sig.
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2010-02-15, 08:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Descent of Shadows: Project Shadow Returns
I based my shadowcaster revision on that post (but made significant alterations, namely he gains a feat every 3 paths started not 2, else you gain too many feats). Since the basis is the same i can safely say that (at least at levels 6 to 15 where my campaigns have taken place) its power and endurance is equal to the sorcerer (however the shadowcaster still is not nearly as versatile with his mystery uses). Also you need to ban many feats from Descent of shadows (namely shadow tome and many others that recharge mysteries faster)
Last edited by peacenlove; 2010-02-15 at 09:24 AM.
Complete Shadow Magic! for Pathfinder Rules. (Google Docs PDF)
Newest: Shadowcaster Archetypes
WIP:Wordcasting Shadowcaster
Previous games: Life in Hell
as Moira