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Thread: Mood killers.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

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    Thumbs down Mood killers.

    in all the games I've played in someone always has to be the stereotypical "I'm stealing from you just because I can" thief, these guys drive me nuts because when you ask for your stuff back OOC they are quite prone to just ignore you. One of my friend's brothers plays this all the time, in fact you'll see him put his skills to use on the players more than the NPCs.

    does anyone else get annoyed at these players?

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    Xuincherguixe's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    Extremely. It breaks the game too.

    I imagine the guy tells you that you can't search through his stuff either because you "don't know that it's there" either huh?

    Being a rogue doesn't give you an excuse to be a jerk.
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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    Well, it can be done well, it just usually isn't.

    For example, I've got a high level rogue who likes to steal the cleric's holy symbol. She's got enough ranks in sleight of hand that she can do it without failure. She doesn't keep it, of course, and she only does it in safe places where the cleric won't need it in a hurry.

    Her usual thing to do is put it on and wear it as her own until someone notices. She's more than happy to give it back when asked, it just makes for a fun little game the characters play when they;ve got nothing else to do.

    I'd say the best solution for thieving rogues is to steal from them. What are they going to do about it? If you're a melee character, you can out muscle them, if you're a caster, you probably have Hold Person.
    Last edited by Pironious; 2008-03-09 at 04:44 AM.

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    Mad Maudlin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    'Specially since the trapfinding class feature means the rogue is usually the one opening any given chest...

    In fact, this is why I first multiclassed to beguiler. Our rogue makes a point of asking where everyone is in the room, to watch us squirm as we all have to admit to looking the other way while she steals all the best loot. So now I can say "Where am I? I'm standing right behind you, watching you disarm the trap! I'm new to the trap thing, and wanted to watch the master in action!"

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xuincherguixe View Post
    I imagine the guy tells you that you can't search through his stuff either because you "don't know that it's there" either huh?
    Would you have a friend that stole from you?
    Would you kill a dragon together with one?

    Tell players that do this, that if they are ever discovered, they are lucky if they are only thrown out from the (ingame) party.

    Oh, and tell them never to become unconscius because you will use his underwear for bandages.

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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blanks View Post
    Would you have a friend that stole from you?
    Would you kill a dragon together with one?

    Tell players that do this, that if they are ever discovered, they are lucky if they are only thrown out from the (ingame) party.

    Oh, and tell them never to become unconscius because you will use his underwear for bandages.
    Ugh, I don't want no drity underwear on my gaping wounds.

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    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    A possible solution is to also play a rogue, and start stealing from him. Yes, you're fighting fire with fire, but he should quickly realize that this gets old after the first time.
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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    If you're retaliating in-game, the better way to do it is to play an intrusive telepath. The rogue's little secrets will not stay secret very long at all, and then you can Dominate him into giving the stuff back. When confronted with that, he would be much more amenable to an OOC agreement to stop doing it so often.

    This is a rather hostile way to handle it, though, and I don't reccomend it. Fortunately I've never played with one of these people; the CE rogue in our party was good at telling what would actually annoy the other players and finding reasons why the character wouldn't do those things.
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    Usually, this is best dealt with by the DM.

    My response is usually: "Stealing just because you can is not an in character reason. That tells me you are doing it to antagonize the other player, which A) is metagaming and B) is disruptive. You have 3 choices: A) Knovk it off, B) make a different character that is not oriented towards stealing, or C) hit the road."

    If the player (as they did on the two occasions I had this problem) responds that "my character is chaotic and doesn't care what anyone else thinks so its good roleplaying." I point out that a character of average intelligence will realize that he's going to be depending for his survival on this group, and that he WILL care what they think when it gets time for him to get healing or something else he needs. If he really was that unwilling to give basic respect to those he's working with (even chaotic evil characters can be loyal when it serves their interests) he wouldn't join the party in the first place, and therefore, needs to create a different character.

    I, however, have strict rules about characters whose theme revolves around hogging the spotlight or antagonizing other party members. If your character concept requires major investment by everyone else, think again.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Pants_Guy View Post
    in all the games I've played in someone always has to be the stereotypical "I'm stealing from you just because I can" thief, these guys drive me nuts because when you ask for your stuff back OOC they are quite prone to just ignore you. One of my friend's brothers plays this all the time, in fact you'll see him put his skills to use on the players more than the NPCs.

    does anyone else get annoyed at these players?
    I would start giving the players a big circumstance bonus on detecting when their rogue steals from the party, just based on the fact that they know they are the type of rogue who is of the temperment to steal from his own comrades if given the opportunity. Wouldn't you be more careful if you knew you were traveling with a known pickpocket? During the theft allow *everyone* nearby to make a Spot/Listen/ or Sense Motive checks, as appropriate. Someone will get lucky with their rolls, and the problem will iron itself out naturally.

    I generally try to keep players from engaging in intra-party strife, unless that's a part of the campaign itself.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    Have your Sorceror/Psion blast him across the room with some physical spell.

    "Why'd you do that?"

    "Because I can."

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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    1) At the Rogue that opens the chest, how is he figuring out and using the best loot? Magic Items require various magic methods to really identify.

    2) The rules already stipulate that anyone nearby gets to make opposed spot checks to notice Sleight of Hand. What happens when an NPC in the crowded town gets a success? Or a Guard NPC with maxed out Spot notices? Or a Party member notices and the rest of the party get's circumstance bonuses from knowledge and they have in character reasoning to check often to make sure nothing is missing? Or a friendly towny (IE Several levels of Rogue) offers to sell them information on the location of X after just watching the theft?

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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    I've played in a group that explicitly banned characters of chaotic evil alignment. This was not as much the DM dictating us as a house rule. The other players felt from experience that the group would be too divided to be an effective unit if we fought inwardly. After all there was the occasional quest to accomplish, the odd village to save from hordes of orcs... You know, stuff we felt we should focus on instead.

    There were several petty feuds between characters, but only in the form of practical jokes. No backstabbing (literal or otherwise) of fellow PCs was allowed. After all, would an adventurer stay in a group of people he couldn't trust?

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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    Yup, one of the many reasons I don't allow evil characters in games with alignments or thieves.
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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    This has only happened once in my party, and it was in a good-natured way, but also the PC had definitely made a character who liked to screw with the party members because he liked to. He stole something (I don't remember what) from one of the other PCs and the only one who saw him was the NE rogue NPC who had been with the party much longer than he had. Rather than really call him on it, she took advantage of the fact that all his skill points were in bluff and SoH, rather than sense motive and spot, and stole his brand new rapier. A minute or two later, as he was walking, he found himself stopped by a sword point to his throat; looked to see who was holding it, and saw her with his sword. This is, I believe, the exact quote:
    I get it, I get it, don't steal from party members.
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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Maudlin View Post
    In fact, this is why I first multiclassed to beguiler. Our rogue makes a point of asking where everyone is in the room, to watch us squirm as we all have to admit to looking the other way while she steals all the best loot. So now I can say "Where am I? I'm standing right behind you, watching you disarm the trap! I'm new to the trap thing, and wanted to watch the master in action!"
    Why would they be looking the other way? It's natural for people to be expectant about what's in the chest and keeping a close eye on it, even if they don't have a reason to suspect the rogue.

    Which leads me to point two: Once burned, twice shy. Eventually, any rogue, no matter how good, is going to get caught. After they do, make it clear that nobody in the party is ever going to trust them again. Whenever anything goes missing, they get blamed and their things get searched. When they're doing anything involving treasure, someone more trustworthy (with good eyes) has to watch, and if they've been left alone with it they get searched. Etc, etc, etc. It's perfectly reasonable for people to get paranoid when they know they've been stolen from in the past.

    Remember that players are always entitled to decide how their characters react as long as there is no magical intereference; thus, if you feel that someone is trying to (for instance) bluff your character into accepting something they would never accept, or that they would never listen to excuses from a source they know to be untrustworthy, you can have your character be convinced for one round and then instantly change their mind.
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2008-03-09 at 06:38 PM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    Yeah, I'm having this problem at the moment too. The only difference is my DM likes to force certain stereotypes onto characters, and fully supports the Rogue stealing from the rest of everyone else, because "that's what a Rogue would do." Since the rest of us were in combat for the majority of the encounter, none of us know right off hand that she actually took anything. She also happens to be my girlfriend, and the DM is her Uncle.

    Suffice it to say, my Paladin type was condemned for calling people Heathens and other reasons that were completely unspecified. BLEH! "The type of Paladin wouldn't go around calling people Heathens all the time." BLEH! X 2.

    So I'm definately thinking of some ways to make her realize that honesty is the best policy for everyone involved, but good ideas have yet to occur.

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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    Well, to me your situation looks like your girlfriend is stressed out and taking it out on people around her where she feels safe in doing so, is mad at someone in the group, etc. As an OOC problem, it should probably be dealt with OOC. Those are just my two cents.

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    Thexare Blademoon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    Quote Originally Posted by TempusCCK View Post
    Yeah, I'm having this problem at the moment too. The only difference is my DM likes to force certain stereotypes onto characters, and fully supports the Rogue stealing from the rest of everyone else, because "that's what a Rogue would do."
    Really? Maybe I should pick a different class for Nilanos Blademoon, then (LN Rogue/Wizard(Illusionist)/Shadowdancer). He's the guy that catches the thieves.

    Seriously, I've never understood the logic of saying "this is how (class/alignment/race) would act". Where, if a place other than laziness and/or stupidity, did that BS even come from? For religion-centric classes, it's a little more understandable, but... characters are people, not a class, alignment, and stats.


    Bah, sorry, I just really hate that BS.
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    Solo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    Present a reasonable argument to the offending player, backed up with magical death.

    Speak softly and carry a big stick.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowdemon_lord View Post
    Well, to me your situation looks like your girlfriend is stressed out and taking it out on people around her where she feels safe in doing so, is mad at someone in the group, etc. As an OOC problem, it should probably be dealt with OOC. Those are just my two cents.
    Umm, or maybe she's been conditioned by our DM that her role as a Rogue is to screw the rest of us over, which makes sense as he gives extra EXP for that type of thing.

    That'd be the non-mostly made up crap psychological answer.

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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Maudlin View Post
    'Specially since the trapfinding class feature means the rogue is usually the one opening any given chest...

    In fact, this is why I first multiclassed to beguiler. Our rogue makes a point of asking where everyone is in the room, to watch us squirm as we all have to admit to looking the other way while she steals all the best loot. So now I can say "Where am I? I'm standing right behind you, watching you disarm the trap! I'm new to the trap thing, and wanted to watch the master in action!"
    reminds me of this

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    If you have a DM awarding XP for stealing from other players because "That's what a Rogue would do", roll up a Barb with a good spot check, and hack the thief in half when you catch him/her.

    When they ask why you did that say, "That's what a Barbarian would do."

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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Pants_Guy View Post
    does anyone else get annoyed at these players?
    Yes, but it doesn't help that, out of the 5 people in my college gaming group that have played Rogues in the last year or so, every single one of them has played this way. Our current party, before the fortunate untimely death of one Rogue, had two Rogues and a Fighter just like that. It's so bad with those groups that I cringe just thinking about it.

    And it's not just stealing from the party - they all claim that their characters are/were Chaotic Neutral, so that means it's okay to deface the statue of Hades in the courtyard of the fortress of the cult of Hades while the whole party is there to train with said cult. Three times. Or whatever else it is Chaotic Neutral Stupid people do.

    Of course, those are basically all of the D&D players in the area that are ever available, so I'm sort of stuck.
    Last edited by RTGoodman; 2008-03-10 at 01:16 AM.
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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    Which leads me to point two: Once burned, twice shy. Eventually, any rogue, no matter how good, is going to get caught. After they do, make it clear that nobody in the party is ever going to trust them again. Whenever anything goes missing, they get blamed and their things get searched.
    Why travel with someone you trust so little?
    If i were to go into somewhere with deadly traps, I would only go with someone i trusted completely.
    Our rule ingame is: "if you are caught stealing, we take the amount we think you have stolen and you are allowed to go. Because we like you we won't kill you. Right now. But don't show up again".
    That usually solves the problem.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    If you've talked with the player about it, and talked with the DM about it, then you are left with two options:

    1) Kill them in your sleep, "because that's what my character would do if they were stolen from". This should point out just how unfun it is to be on the recieving end of it.
    2) Leave the group.

    If you haven't spoken with the DM yet, speak with the DM and talk to them about it.

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    Xuincherguixe's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    It should be pointed out that any of these solutions only work if the DM allows it.

    It may well be that the DM is just allowing the other player to be a jerk, and not letting anyone do anything about the stealing.

    Revenge schemes aren't going to cut it there, because he's just going to say no. And, it doesn't actually solve the problem.


    The only time this is an appropriate reaction is if the theft doesn't actually bother you that much, and it really is all just in character.


    If you are playing the game with jerks, pack up your stuff and find a new game. You may leave in whatever manner you feel appropriate. I vote stop showing up without telling anyone you aren't coming ^_^.


    If you're playing with a DM who will allow one to get back at someone, really what right have we to take the fun of plotting away from you? Plotting revenge is the best part of getting slighted!
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    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    There are non-violent ways you could play along......

    Purchase some cursed items and seed them where your sneaky friend will find them (i.e., take 1 round after a kill to slip item on a corpse before the looting begins). Hilarity ensues as the wearer of a strange new item asks for remove curse from the party.

    You could also seed a corpse/ room with marked gold coins to obtain clear evidence of party theft.

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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    My personal favorite method is the invasive telepath.

    Personally, mind control and thought-reading isn't that squicky for me, but apparently it's right up there on the squick list for some people. Dominate Person! yay!
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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Mood killers.

    Rogue stealing from your party? Use the Shatter spell on his backpack. Not only do you find your stuff, but the rogue has nowhere to carry anything he steals. Rogue has a magical bag of holding? Use the Shatter spell on his pants. This doesn't get your stuff back, but it is extremely funny, especially if done in a social setting. If you are a gnome, option two should get you bonus roleplaying XP even if the rogue hasn't been stealing from you, because that is the sort of thing stereotypical gnomes do.
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