Does any DM actually allow Astral Projection like this?

[Frosty]

As a DM, I do not allow Astral Projection back into the material plane as a tactic to have a free copy of yourself. It's stupid, abusive, and really destroys any risk to adventuring when your own body is in a demi-plane of your own choosing. Does any other DM even allow Astral Projection at all?

[Mr. Friendly]

Ummm...

It's not particularly game breaking when you consider that your Astral Form is wiped out by Dispel Magic, also, if the PCs really want to abuse this spell, (like say, astrally running around with a cart full of their unconcious forms) then you as a DM have to step up and be evil. Like having an enemy that radiates anti-magic (beholder?) show up on their unconcious bodies. Since the effect is merely "suppressed" and not dispelled, the Astral Forms wink out of existance - they don't wake up though. If you wanted to be generous, I might allow them to watch, helplessly, as the Beholder eated their unconcious bodies.

Lots of crtitters have gaze attacks that go astral.

Githyanki are cool and tough opponents.

Githyanki vs. Astral Travellers is horrifying and sad.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

1) At OP, It's a ninth level spell, in 90% of games it won't even come up. Then they have to be smart about hiding their bodies, and realize how awesome it is. You are now down to 5% of all games.

Add in that it is actually more vulnerable in the shirt term, so if you need to do something RIGHT NOW! it is actually worse then being there in person, well, it's just not that big an issue. But yes, if the players get that far, then Astral Projection does make them mostly immune to dieing, of course so does Paying some Cleric to cast Status on them and Res them if they die.

2)@Friendly

a) The way to abuse the spell is to have their bodies well hidden in someplace 100% safe, like a Genesis Plane.
b) The Beholder shouldn't be able to find their bodies since they should be somewhere else, far away, and very well protected.
c) It doesn't matter if the gaze attack goes Astral, since the Astral forms Planeshifted back to the Material Plane, and the Material Bodies are tucked away somewhere far away. You can hit the projections with all sorts of things, the point is that when they "die" they just wake up back at home, completely safe.
d) These are adventurers capable of casting 9th level spells, the only way Gith are going to be dangerous is if they have 17 levels of Wizard.

Not to mention talking about the Gith makes me believe you don't understand what is happening here: No one is on the Astral Plane. They cast Astral Projection, then the Projection casts Planeshift to return to the Material Plane.

[Zeful]

I don't think astral projection works like that but let me check...
...
...
Here it is. I know the 3.0 version had a clause that said returning to the material plane immediately ended the spell. Just add that clause to the spell if your worried.

[sikyon]

Not to mention talking about the Gith makes me believe you don't understand what is happening here: No one is on the Astral Plane. They cast Astral Projection, then the Projection casts Planeshift to return to the Material Plane.

Since the Astral Plane touches upon other planes, you can travel astrally to any of these other planes as you will. To enter one, you leave the Astral Plane, forming a new physical body (and equipment) on the plane of existence you have chosen to enter.

May not need planeshift.

[MorkaisChosen]

The way I'd rule it is that until the spell ends, the astral cord is in the Astral Plane. In other words, the astral cord goes into Astral from where the actual body is, travels to the equivalent astral point for where the Travelling body is, then goes Material again. That means a Githyanki can pop to the Astral Plane for a second and cut the cord. Boom, death ensues.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

May not need planeshift.

I know you may not, but even the most stickler of a DM can't argue that Planeshift can't get you there. And because of the rules of AP you can use one single scroll of Planeshift for this purpose for your entire life.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

The way I'd rule it is that until the spell ends, the astral cord is in the Astral Plane. In other words, the astral cord goes into Astral from where the actual body is, travels to the equivalent astral point for where the Travelling body is, then goes Material again. That means a Githyanki can pop to the Astral Plane for a second and cut the cord. Boom, death ensues.

The way the spell is written (IE without your "ruling" which you will inevitably argue is not a houserule because it "requires interpretation") the Astral Cords are not lined up through Astral space stretching across miles, they exist only in a theoretical sense everywhere except at the exact location of the original and projected body. Which means that in order to cut the cord your Gith are going to need to be capable of beating the party in combat anyways. And Gith that aren't a significant CR above the party level aren't likely to do that.

Even if the Astral Space was blanketed in mile long Cords from everyone who Astral Projected, it makes somewhere between little and no sense for wandering Gith to cut every random Cord they come across. And if they did do that, it would make more sense for everyone to know that, or at least know that no human being in the history of existence has lived more then two hours after Astral Projecting (which makes one wonder why the spell exist if every single person without fail who casts it ends up dieing as soon as any random Gith notices a Bright Shiny that he just has to go cut.)

Not to mention the whole point Astral Projecting then Planeshifting is to completely remove yourself from the Astral Plane, Cord and all.

[Chronos]

Note also that according to the spell, "almost nothing" can sever a silvery cord. I would read that as "nothing, unless the description specifically says it can". Do Githyanki have anything like that?

Really, though, this is a problem with having two different kinds of planar travel, not a problem with Astral Projection specifically. If Astral Projection were the only kind of planar travel, the question would be moot: The creating of a new body would then be purely a property of the non-material plane the travellers go to (which would also explain why souls function corporeally in the afterlife).

[Kioran]

Note also that according to the spell, "almost nothing" can sever a silvery cord. I would read that as "nothing, unless the description specifically says it can". Do Githyanki have anything like that?

The desription of Githyanki specially mentions their swords, which are capable of sundering silver Cords, including the cords hardness and HP. I agree with OP, I think the spell calls for liberal application of rule 0 or downright ban.

[Wabbajack]

Well, the Gith have their shiny silver swords, which are espescialy made to cut the cords^^
Edit: ninjad :(

[Jack_Simth]

Note also that according to the spell, "almost nothing" can sever a silvery cord. I would read that as "nothing, unless the description specifically says it can". Do Githyanki have anything like that?
.

Yes, plus one or two monsters found in the Planar Handbook.

[Emperor Tippy]

Um. I let the players use Astral Projection as written.

Why you ask? For the following reasons:
1) It affects the whole party so it doesn't make any 1 player more powerful than any other player.

2) It allows me to throw potential TPK's at the party with no real concern of actually offing them all.

3)It's a 9th level spell. And a fairly tame one compared to what the wizard could be doing.


Now if the players start the gold/item abuse I just bring out the disjunctions. And with so many ways to get free money its not like it really matters anyways.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

My point is not that Gith cannot cut the cords, it is that unless you happen to run into one on the Material Plane you don't need to worry about it. Since you are on the Material Plane, as is your Cord, it shouldn't come up very often.

[kc0bbq]

My point is not that Gith cannot cut the cords, it is that unless you happen to run into one on the Material Plane you don't need to worry about it. Since you are on the Material Plane, as is your Cord, it shouldn't come up very often.

The cords exist, and go from your unconscious body to the point you entered the astral, through the astral to where you left, to any other points you may have gone in other planes, weaving back into the astral if you went there, like a Family Circus comic.

It doesn't stop existing, despite the fact that it is invisible except for the last little length attached to your body. The cord *can* be detected and followed back to the source. It *can* be cut even if it's invisible.

Not to mention that the body formed on the material is still an astral construct, not technically a "real" body, but a magically created one, and there are consequences for that.

You ALWAYS need to worry about your cord.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

The cords exist, and go from your unconscious body to the point you entered the astral, through the astral to where you left, to any other points you may have gone in other planes, weaving back into the astral if you went there, like a Family Circus comic.

It doesn't stop existing, despite the fact that it is invisible except for the last little length attached to your body. The cord *can* be detected and followed back to the source. It *can* be cut even if it's invisible.

Not to mention that the body formed on the material is still an astral construct, not technically a "real" body, but a magically created one, and there are consequences for that.

You ALWAYS need to worry about your cord.

Except that:

1) That's how you see, but that has pretty much no basis in the actual description.
2) If that were true, and instead of projecting yourself to other planes you Planeshifted it wouldn't magically connect itself, it would just only be where you were and where you are, so the actual part of the cord on the Astral would be about 1 inch of material on the entire Astral Plane.
3) Gith have no incentive to follow every cord they run into around until the find someone, since most likely that someone is capable of killing them instantly, and they have exactly zero to gain from doing so.
4) If Gith did cut every Cord they ran into just to be *******s, just because you want to TPK your party as much as possible, it would still be common knowledge to anyone who learned the Astral Projections spell so they would already know that the DM was going to be an ******* and kill them just because he isn't smart enough to deal with it any other way and they wouldn't cast it and the spell would cease to exist.
5) The body formed on the Material Plane is a Projection (it's also the original one formed on the Astral since you Planeshifted) and that has consequences. But only the ones listed in the spell description, there are no other consequences.

[MorkaisChosen]

The Gith may not cut every cord they come across, but they could just go Astral if they were fighting you and cut the cord there...

[Pauwel]

Sort of off-topic, but I just noticed something...

The spell projects an astral copy of you and all you wear or carry onto the Astral Plane. Since the Astral Plane touches upon other planes, you can travel astrally to any of these other planes as you will. To enter one, you leave the Astral Plane, forming a new physical body (and equipment) on the plane of existence you have chosen to enter.

Emphasis mine.
Couldn't you just create an astral copy of yourself, materialise right next to your physical body, dump all your newly created equipment, dismiss the spell and repeat as many times as you want to?

[kc0bbq]

Sort of off-topic, but I just noticed something...

Emphasis mine.
Couldn't you just create an astral copy of yourself, materialise right next to your physical body, dump all your newly created equipment, dismiss the spell and repeat as many times as you want to?

No, because they disappear with the created form. They are part of it, a projection of the original equipment from the moment the spirit passed into the astral.

[Smiley_]

Astral dreadnaughts, found in that planar handbook, might throw a wrench into this tactic. They live primarily on the astral plane and are especially ornery. They also can see and directly attack the astral chord whenever they feel like it. Of course, if you wanted a reason to grab the attention of one, bags of holding inside portable holes create astral rifts that tend to draw unwanted attention.

Breaking the laws of reality should be dangerous and have consequences if abused.

[kc0bbq]

Except that:

1) That's how you see, but that has pretty much no basis in the actual description.
2) If that were true, and instead of projecting yourself to other planes you Planeshifted it wouldn't magically connect itself, it would just only be where you were and where you are, so the actual part of the cord on the Astral would be about 1 inch of material on the entire Astral Plane.
3) Gith have no incentive to follow every cord they run into around until the find someone, since most likely that someone is capable of killing them instantly, and they have exactly zero to gain from doing so.
4) If Gith did cut every Cord they ran into just to be *******s, just because you want to TPK your party as much as possible, it would still be common knowledge to anyone who learned the Astral Projections spell so they would already know that the DM was going to be an ******* and kill them just because he isn't smart enough to deal with it any other way and they wouldn't cast it and the spell would cease to exist.
5) The body formed on the Material Plane is a Projection (it's also the original one formed on the Astral since you Planeshifted) and that has consequences. But only the ones listed in the spell description, there are no other consequences.

1) There's 30 years of lore to back this up. Even though a lot hasn't been specifically written for 3.5e yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Likewise, juse because you want this to be an instant win doesn't make it so.

2) The cord would snap to the location you entered the material plane, instantly, and cleanly. If it didn't you would die, because there can be no gap in the cord. It would be a lot longer than an inch, and as per SRD the new body is still connected to the cord leading back to the original body.

3) The Gith don't, they have other fish to fry. But enemies of the party may be watching, something drifting in the astral looking for a body might stumble on the cord and decide to follow, and there's a 50/50 chance they pick the right direction to go. In the olden days there were even more hazards which haven't been defined in 3.5 yet, but if you take the astral plane as per SRD and 3.5 only lore it's boring, empty, and would make for a lame game construct.

4) Risk doesn't mean automatic. There is a giant spirit hose connecting your bodies. Again, just because you don't want there to be consequences, doesn't mean there aren't. And the consequences aren't necessarily fatal. Since death isn't really an issue for characters casting 9th level spells, why would an enemy kill the bodies? There are other things to do with helpless enemies that are much more fun.

5) So the only consequences allowed for any spells are those allowed for literally in the text? How did you determine that? This method trades one set of risks for another.

Besides, if you choose to be so literal, every time one of the party has dispel magic cast on them they go home. The description doesn't allow for a contested roll.