Army Killer

[NoDot]

This was a thought exercise I wanted to hear opinions on: can a level ten character (all levels in one base class) kill an army? If not, how many soldiers can it kill?

The enemy army is 10,000 level one Warriors. Victory is killing 9,000+ of them. They don't have bows. No one has horses. Max HP to both sides.

The spellcasters probably already won their rounds, so how many could everyone else kill (without stupid cheese)?

[Xefas]

Too easy. Even for non spellcasters. I mean, a Wizard just casts Overland Flight, takes the Fiery Burst feat, and plucks away, so on and so forth for each caster.

But, a non-caster can just buy a Flying Carpet for 20,000gp (WBL for lvl 10 is 49,000 I believe). If they have no bows, he can just get a ranged weapon of his choice, such as a Javelin of Returning and slaughter the lot. Heck, if none of the soldiers have reach weapons, he can just grab a Longspear, sit 5 feet above them, and poke away with impunity.

EDIT: Keep in mind this works for *all* non-casters, since class doesn't effect WBL, and javelins are simple weapons. A +1 Javelin of Returning is only a little over 8,000gp in cost, leaving 21,000gp to spare. Even a PC Commoner could do this.

[Woot Spitum]

You could use the spell Contagion to spread a deadly disease throughout the ranks of the army. Or you could just poison the army's water supply. An evil cleric that has managed to command any sort of undead that spawns new undead from anyone it kills can also take down the army without too much trouble.

[_Puppetmaster_]

Carpet of flying: 20,000gp
single use use activated item of summon undead V: (2000[5*9])/100=900gp

get on carpet of flying, hover over battlefield, summon a wight, fly away.

[NoDot]

Since this is just a thought exercise, the melee guys need to physically go and chop though the enemy army. How difficult is that?

You could use the spell Contagion to spread a deadly disease throughout the ranks of the army. Or you could just poison the army's water supply. An evil cleric that has managed to command any sort of undead that spawns new undead from anyone it kills can also take down the army without too much trouble.

I thought we already assumed that the mages won.

[Triaxx]

This is cake. Assuming you meant neither side is armed with ranged weapons, and all spell casters are moot, the Barbarian is a win button. Primarily a human Barbarian Barbarian 8/Fighter 2 with High dex and STR, plus a magical Spiked Chain (My preference, but a long spear works just as well.). Give him Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Weapon Focus, Combat Reflexes, with two meaningless feats. He now auto kills anything that approaches him.

[DrizztFan24]

Channel the army into a gorge and have a set of spiked-chain trippers there tripping everyone and attacking them as they stand up, the gorge will prevent too many people from getting to the sides.

[Trog]

Unless the 10th level PC had protection from normal missles they would be toast. No bows as the OP said. But didn't say no thrown weapons. Since a nat 20 always hits, as long as they are in range, 5% of them will (on average) hit. If 100 warriors are within range every round 5 of them will land hits. At an average of 3 points of damage each hit they will be dealing 15 HP each round. Putting down even the hardiest barbarian in inside of a minute (10 rounds = 1,000 attacks = 50 hits = 150 damage). For even your hardiest mage they will be taken down in half that time unless they have protection from normal missles. Other spells such as blur, stoneskin, etc. would help increase this time. It all really comes down to the magical defenses of that 10th level person.

[NoDot]

Did you people read the first post? You have ten levels in one base class, so you're Barbarian 10, Fighter 10, Cleric 10, Rogue 10, Bard 10, Monk 10, ect. And it's just you. You probably have Leadership, but you don't get its benefits if you do. And you're up against 10,000 level one Warriors. With Full Plate and Two-Handed Melee weapons.

Clearly, however, that isn't much of a challenge, even for the Monk or Fighter. Anyone disagree?

[edit] The primary reason for the ban on projectiles is Wind Wall.

[Yakk]

Weapon with an AoO, 100% chance to kill target.

PC hits on a 2+ (5% chance of getting through), enough AoO to swing at everyone with a reach weapon.

Warriors hit on a 20, with a 50% miss chance on top of that, and do 1d8+1 -3 from DR. Warriors who swing at the player get killed 100% of the time from some spell effect or feats or armor spikes or something (keeps it simple).

No more than 50 Warriors can reach the character per round.

5% of Warriors reach the character, 5% of those do on average 2.625 damage.

Average Damage per round: 0.328125

10,000 warriors is 200 rounds, or 20 minutes, or 65.625 damage on average.

So in a pure melee battle, a reach weapon and some healing potions and some room to move around in would be enough.

[Frosty]

There are mny feats and items to give a character fast healing, so this isn't even really a big challenge.

[NoDot]

Since this was supposed to be looked at on a Base Class by Base Class basis, what odds do the Rogues and Monks have? Similar odds?

[Chronos]

The rogue and monk can do it, too, just without the high body count. You sneak in, maybe assassinate the general, and forge orders to the various sub-units. Preferably conflicting orders, to maximize the resulting confusion.

The quickest victory, though, goes to the druid. Wildshape into an inconspicuous bird, and blow them all away with Control Winds.

The enemy army is 10,000 level one Warriors. Victory is killing 9,000+ of them.

Kill a mere 1000, and you don't have an army any more, you have a mob. Another thousand, and what you're left with is a riot. Decimating an army doesn't mean reducing it to 1/10 its size; it means killing 1/10. Human nature and the various positive feedback mechanisms inherent to war will do the rest.

[Trog]

Did you people read the first post?

Yes. And it didn't say:

With Full Plate and Two-Handed Melee weapons.

Clearly, however, that isn't much of a challenge, even for the Monk or Fighter. Anyone disagree?

Clearly, yes, I disagree.

[NoDot]

So, as long as you have Wind Wall or similar available, you're golden.

Clearly, yes, I disagree.

Figure in Wind Wall.

[Desyth]

Just add feral to that Spiked Chain warrior and you're good!

[Woot Spitum]

I thought we already assumed that the mages won.

Sorry, I missed that part.

Still, anyone with decent sneaking abilities can poison the water supply provided they can obtain poison. Not to mention setting wagons stocked with provisions on fire, leaving the army to starve.

[Avor]

Level 5 Paladin, Mountain Plate, Tower Shield, Ring of Protection +2

Total AC: 26

Only critial hits are going to get you, and you got healz. I would say you could take out enough to get up to level 10 before you die.


Then again, nuclear shotgun, get a bag of holding, and fill it with exposives, set the fuse and close the bag. When things are in the bag, they are sealed off from the passage of time. So when you open the back, BOOM. Since the space in extra dimential, there is no kick back on the force. You have nothing but a stupid amount of exsposion directed at your whim.

One bag of holding is how much? Then just spend the rest on high powered blasting exposives.

[quiet1mi]

Then again, nuclear shotgun, get a bag of holding, and fill it with exposives, set the fuse and close the bag. When things are in the bag, they are sealed off from the passage of time. So when you open the back, BOOM. Since the space in extra dimential, there is no kick back on the force. You have nothing but a stupid amount of exsposion directed at your whim.

One bag of holding is how much? Then just spend the rest on high powered blasting exposives.

does that count as the death of a cat girl? or just a mere flesh wound?

[GammaPaladin]

The enemy are level 1. In other words one hit will put them down generally speaking. So just get whirlwind attack and a spiked chain. They'll have attack bonuses around 1, maybe a few as high as 5, if they were built with a 32 point buy. So you only need +21-+25 AC to ensure they only hit you on a natural 20. They're using two handed weapons, but there was no mention of reach weapons, so, you should be golden. Of course, if you can get any sort of concealment, that will help you out as well.

If you have a potion of Giant Size from a 19th level Wu Jen, you can slaughter dozens with a single whirlwind attack.

[Dr Bwaa]

Lvl 10 Paladin with a Celestial Gryphon mount.

End.

[Ganurath]

Barbarian1: Human with Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Sunder, Shock Trooper, and Combat Brute. Give him an Adamantium Greatsword with a Bane enchantment for whatever sort of opponent he's fighting, and that Cleaving enchantment.

Barbarian2: Human with Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, and Elusive Target. Your weapon is an Explosive Glaive. Invest in Dex.

Bard: Caster.

Cleric: Caster.

Druid: Caster.

Fighter: Take the feats from Barbarian1, supplement as you see fit. I favor completing the Power Attack chain myself, but Improved Trip and Spiked Chain are great with Domino Rush.

Monk: Your bonus feats are Stunning Fist, Combat Reflexes, and Improved Trip. Your first level human feat is Weapon Finesse, because you'll be going heavy on Dex and Wis. Your four level feats are Dodge, Mobility, Defensive Throw, and Elusive Target. Take the 10,000 for a trip.

Paladin: A half-orc Paladin for the Str boost, taking Cavalry Charger and the prerequisite feats. Get something to boost your mount's speed, and go wild with fell trample.

Ranger: Not enough ammo for ranged, so we're restricted to TWF style. I'm too sleepy to come up with an idea for how to salvage this mess.

Rogue: There's a feat that lets you hide in crowds. Get it. Max Hide. Take the Mosquito Bite skill trick. Go wild.

Sorceror: Caster.

Wizard: Caster.

Coming up next: PHBII and Complete Base Classes!

[Trog]

So, as long as you have Wind Wall or similar available, you're golden.

Figure in Wind Wall.

Okay. Well figuring that the army has no ranged weapons of any sort or that the PC has protection in some form against missle weapons we get down to simple melee.

In this case the best idea might be to have 7 of the surrounding men Aid Another on the remaining man to try and trip him. They then step back and as many men as possible move in and make melee attacks against his prone AC. (flanked + prone = +6 to hit)

Really then it becomes difficult to say. Not having any stats for the PC (or, really, the army) makes the fight difficult to simulate or calculate odds for. No doubt in any case the PC will be killing lots of warriors. The question is can they muster the attack bonuses to put the PC at enough of a disadvantage to hit him with probable regularity and do enough damage before all 9,000 of them are dead.

AC 20+ heavily armored PC would only be hit on a 20. Giving the PC the benefit of the doubt that they will kill all surrounding foes the PC will drop 8 warriors per round. The warriors will only land a blow once every third round (one in every 20 attacks but we'll say 24 to make things simple and give the PC the benefit of a doubt). At 7 points of (average) damage for a 2d6 two handed sword against a PC with 175 HP (maximum possible without Feats for 18 CON Barbarian with max HP) it would take 25 hits over 75 rounds to take the PC down. 11.5 minutes. During that same amount of time the PC would have taken down approximately 600 warriors.

So there you have it.

[FlyMolo]

Not good enough.

Try PsyWar, with expansion, spiked chain, and great cleave. If PrCs are allowed, PsyWar 5/Warmind 5. Sweeping strike is win. I'm not even sure if you can meet the prereqs at that level, but it's win.

[GammaPaladin]

Molo: Don't I know you from the Relic boards? Also, try this:

WuJen 5/Warblade 1/Fighter 4/Jade Phoenix Mage 10

Take Practiced Spellcaster and Arcane Thesis (Giant Size). This gives you a caster level of 19 for the purposes of casting Giant Size, and you have the spells of a 13th level WuJen which allows you to acquire the Giant Size spell, naturally.

You can now become colossal with +32 str and +12 AC, and easily snag whirlwind attack while you're at it.

With a spiked chain you can now attack every enemy within a 60 foot radius, every single turn.

[EDIT: Bleh, forgot the rules for this thread. For a level 10 character, yeah, Expansion is the best ability for reach increase, so Psywar is win.

Unless you can get a Giant Size potion or ring

Note that a Half-Ogre can get to Gargantuan size with Expansion at level 10 ;)]

[FlyMolo]

No, you don't. I don't think... *check for amnesia* don't think so.

Can't take the LA, though, if you want to get cleave attempts uber-reliably through sweeping strike.

[GammaPaladin]

Alright, just someone over there with the same exact handle.

Who needs Cleave when you get Whirlwind attack? It's not like you're going to miss more than one in twenty attacks, and none of them are going to survive a single hit.