Blaster Wizards v. the world

[Project_Mayhem]

OK, skimming various threads and optimisation boards, the advice tends to be control magic = awesome and evocation = suck. I know this. I know why.

But, I was wondering how bad, say, a warmage, or a sorc/wizard focused on blasting was compared to the less broken classes. Obviously Batman and the CoDzilla kick Blasty McBlasterson's arse, but then they kick everyones.

[Zincorium]

Generally, blasting is merely okay, but the problem is that by focusing on doing HP damage, you're directly competing with the fighter, rogue, and anyone else who has no other good option. If you're overshadowing them, that kind of hurts party integrity. Logic Ninja's style of batman wizard actually is easier to be in a party with than a fireball happy evoker.

Then again, I've switched to playing a half-drow warmage from a dwarven barbarian/bear warrior because the latter was outshining the party. Sometimes you need that level of limitation.

[senrath]

I don't know about most people, but evocation is my favorite school of magic. Sure, I use other ones as well, but sometimes there's nothing so satisfying as simply annihilating your enemies.

At any rate, things usually work out pretty well for me, but that might just be due to how well I work with my group. Most of the time I end up playing in a sort of "heavy artillery" role, which I'm quite happy with. I rain down fiery destruction, either weakening or outright killing the enemies, and allows the rest of the party to sweep up the remaining foes with relative ease. Usually. Occasionally we have issues with enemy casters that I can't blast fast enough, but those are few and far between.

Just be sure that if you do play this way, do not, as Zincorium pointed out, outshine the classes that have direct damage as their only option. Unless they tell you to. Then it's okay

[Project_Mayhem]

you're directly competing with the fighter, rogue, and anyone else who has no other good option

Only if, say, you're fighting one enemy, or a group of mooks conveniently placed in fireball radius. I tend to play melee; at the moment I'm a barbarian in a group with a rogue (fairly solid character), a druid (players new so not too hot), and a ranger (possibly the least optimised and unluckiest character ever. He has no strength or dex bonus). As it happens, in combat I'm the only really efficiant one, followed by the druids dire badger and the rogue, neither of whom work very well on their own.

Basically, my point was, in many situtions we're being attacked from all sides and such. I would KILL to have someone blast the goblins coming down the other side of the hill while I'm fighting the wargs on the other.

[Zincorium]

Only if, say, you're fighting one enemy, or a group of mooks conveniently placed in fireball radius.

Not just then. As long as you are, effectively, causing the same effects, you're in competition, just like you would if you were a beguiler and there was a rogue and scout in the party. Competition isn't inherently bad, what I was trying to point out is that wizards are better off doing the things that no one else can be doing. Like making everyone fly.

I tend to play melee; at the moment I'm a barbarian in a group with a rogue (fairly solid character), a druid (players new so not too hot), and a ranger (possibly the least optimised and unluckiest character ever. He has no strength or dex bonus). As it happens, in combat I'm the only really efficiant one, followed by the druids dire badger and the rogue, neither of whom work very well on their own.

That is an... eerily familiar party composition to the one I mentioned being in as a dwarven barbarian. Except we had an NPC sorceror who threw fireballs with little care about where they went.

Basically, my point was, in many situtions we're being attacked from all sides and such. I would KILL to have someone blast the goblins coming down the other side of the hill while I'm fighting the wargs on the other.

True, but that may be because you don't have the tanks or the buffing to take care of that without heavy artillery. So the heavy artillery is looking very good. The question is how often you're in a situation like the above? If it's all the freaking time, warmage. If it's fairly seldom, then a more dilettante type of wizard may be warranted.

[Project_Mayhem]

True, but that may be because you don't have the tanks or the buffing to take care of that without heavy artillery. So the heavy artillery is looking very good. The question is how often you're in a situation like the above? If it's all the freaking time, warmage. If it's fairly seldom, then a more dilettante type of wizard may be warranted.

Reasonable. I guess it's about context then.

I'd still prefer a wizard with an evocation specialism than a warmage though.

[Triaxx]

Alright, Blaster Wizards, as a rule should always have at least one non-blasty spell to work with. Web is a good one, since instead of just hitting them with a fireball, use web to lock them into place, THEN blast them with the fireball.

But at it's most basic level, a Blaster Wizard does as much damage as a fighter, but more consistently. At level 1, the fighter might hit every other time, doing 1d8 damage. I can hit every time, and do 1d4(+1) damage each time. So he might do as much, maybe a little more, but I can do it consistently. The fighter's damage might scale to +1 as he enchants his weapon. I continually increase my damage. 5d4(+5), 5d6>10d6. Compared to a fighter who might do 1d8+3 twice. And then it's only luck if he hits full damage potential, or even hits. He needs to worry about DR, and AC, and damage type. I just have to worry about SR and DR. If one type isn't working, I just fall back to pure force damage.

(Note: I have been known to cast Magic Missile as a 9th level spell.)

[Artanis]

I've (briefly) played a Warmage a couple of times, and it seemed decently balanced with the other classes. What I've read on various boards seems to back this up, with the general consensus seeming to be that the Warmage is only technically a full caster, and instead is effectively just an archer with various trick arrows. In fact, the one thread on the WotC boards ranking the classes puts the Warmage roughly on par power-wise with the Scout.

However, I feel an advantage for the Warmage is that it's much more approachable for newbies than...well, than for pretty much any other full caster. It has all the mechanics and bookkeeping of a full caster, but a MUCH shallower learning curve, allowing a newbie to get the hang of how a caster works without screwing himself over by making inexperienced spell choices.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

But at it's most basic level, a Blaster Wizard does as much damage as a fighter, but more consistently. At level 1, the fighter might hit every other time, doing 1d8 damage. I can hit every time, and do 1d4(+1) damage each time. So he might do as much, maybe a little more, but I can do it consistently. The fighter's damage might scale to +1 as he enchants his weapon. I continually increase my damage. 5d4(+5), 5d6>10d6. Compared to a fighter who might do 1d8+3 twice. And then it's only luck if he hits full damage potential, or even hits. He needs to worry about DR, and AC, and damage type. I just have to worry about SR and DR. If one type isn't working, I just fall back to pure force damage.

So then you haven't played a Fighter since 1st edition?

Fighters don't do 1d8, they do 2d4+6 at level one. With multiple attacks per round, all at about +5 - +8 to hit when ACs are about 14-17.

I'd take a greater then 50% chance of doing a minimum of twice your max damage with two (or more) attacks per round an infinite number of times a day over 1d4+1 four times.

Of course, that's why I use Color Spray, for the greater then 50% chance of insta killing 2-4 enemies.

In summary,
Batman>Fighter>Wizard who just blasts.

[senrath]

I've (briefly) played a Warmage a couple of times, and it seemed decently balanced with the other classes. What I've read on various boards seems to back this up, with the general consensus seeming to be that the Warmage is only technically a full caster, and instead is effectively just an archer with various trick arrows. In fact, the one thread on the WotC boards ranking the classes puts the Warmage roughly on par power-wise with the Scout.

However, I feel an advantage for the Warmage is that it's much more approachable for newbies than...well, than for pretty much any other full caster. It has all the mechanics and bookkeeping of a full caster, but a MUCH shallower learning curve, allowing a newbie to get the hang of how a caster works without screwing himself over by making inexperienced spell choices.

Well, I recently started playing a Warmage in a new campaign, and although I am no means a new spellcaster, I find it FUN. Sure, I pretty much can't do anything but blast, but at low level it's fun to have a d6 hit die, and the ability to wear armor. And once I get high enough, the bonus Sudden metamagic feats are gonna be fun.

Oh, and the whole not having to worry about what spells to choose is nice.

[Squash Monster]

The average blaster wizard will do more d6s of damage than anybody else. Unfortunately for him, every other damage-focused character will do more than that.

However, good blaster wizards do exist. A caster who dumps lots of metamagic onto good low-level ray spells will do lots of damage, enough to out-perform most melee characters.

If, however, blasting to you means aoe damage spells like fireball, you're going to be a lot less effective. It's not like explosive spell does lots of damage outside of shenanigans like the locate city bomb.

Anyway, even if you want to be a blaster, evocation is still not that great of a school. All the cool ray specialists use necromancy (ennervation) or conjuration (lesser orb of whatever). And the best aoe blasting spell is an abjuration spell.

[Captain van der Decken]

So then you haven't played a Fighter since 1st edition?

Fighters don't do 1d8, they do 2d4+6 at level one. With multiple attacks per round, all at about +5 - +8 to hit when ACs are about 14-17.

All that at level 1?

What are you playing, four armed orcs?

[mostlyharmful]

I can't recommend sorc more for this kind of playstyle, get a good spell selection/feat choice going that includes fireball and you can swing both ways. Check out Solos stupendous sorc guide. Add in a brace of Evoc spells to let you crank the hp with the best of them and never have to worry again.

[Reel On, Love]

All that at level 1?

What are you playing, four armed orcs?

From the looks of it, an 18 STR fighter with EWP(Spiked Chain), Combat Expertise and Improved Trip. The extra attack is an AoO.

[AslanCross]

Alright, Blaster Wizards, as a rule should always have at least one non-blasty spell to work with. Web is a good one, since instead of just hitting them with a fireball, use web to lock them into place, THEN blast them with the fireball.

Even better is that fireball actually sets the web on fire, dealing extra damage to the guys stuck in it. It burns the web away, though.

I think another reason why people argue that evocation is not worth specializing in is that a conjurer can still be a blaster (orb spells) without being so limited as to do nothing but blow stuff up. In practice, though, I've seen orb spells fail miserably.

Others argue that illusionists can be blasters too, but I've never really found the Shadow Conjuration and Shadow Evocation spells very appealing due to their dual save mitigation.

[Captain van der Decken]

'Course, that doesn't explain the attack bonus. Even if you're flanking that only adds up to seven.

But now I'm just nitpicking, I guess.

[Reel On, Love]

I think another reason why people argue that evocation is not worth specializing in is that a conjurer can still be a blaster (orb spells) without being so limited as to do nothing but blow stuff up. In practice, though, I've seen orb spells fail miserably.

Hitting touch ACs is overall very easy.

Conjurers also have no-SR AoE Ref-half blasts in the forms of Acid Breath and Blast of Flame (thank you CArcane/Spell Compendium).

'Course, that doesn't explain the damage. Or the attack bonus.

2d4 is the spiked chain. 6 is 1.5*4, the +4 coming from 18 STR, since it's a two-handed weapon.
The attack bonus should be +5-+9, and is 1 from BAB, +4 from STR, and +4 more for when you're attacking a prone target (with the free Imp. Trip attack, or when they're getting up after the trip).

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

2d4 is the spiked chain. 6 is 1.5*4, the +4 coming from 18 STR, since it's a two-handed weapon.
The attack bonus should be +5-+9, and is 1 from BAB, +4 from STR, and +4 more for when you're attacking a prone target (with the free Imp. Trip attack, or when they're getting up after the trip).

It's like I hired a henchman, but he has ranks in UMD and he corrects my math. Aren't I lucky.

[Reel On, Love]

It's like I hired a henchman, but he has ranks in UMD and he corrects my math. Aren't I lucky.

I consider myself more of a high-level Affiliation benefit.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

I consider myself more of a high-level Affiliation benefit.

I have a high level affiliation with a faction. Awesome sauce.