Prince of Persia styled combat?

[Reaper_Monkey]

I'm currently quite new to DM'ng 3.5, and don't have all the source books at my disposal as of yet, however I'm finding it quite difficult to find truly dexterity orientated combat moves, from either feats, prestige classes or just rules.

I have a rogue in the party, who has a very agility based character (18 Dex, has maxed out climb, balance, jump etc) and wants to make full use of agility in combat. Now obviously she has Weapon Finesse, but that alone doesn't give her any new flashy moves. She doesn't want to take things like Power Attack (even though she could) as it doesn't really fit into the style of her character at all (very much an always moving energetic bundle of mania, who likes to climb everything), and has similar views on other strength based attack styles, she does however still want signature moves or just exceptional methods of combat that can't be performed by lesser agile foes.

I suggested using Spring Attack and Acrobatic Strike to simulate her ever moving attack method, which she likes but isn't too keen on because she prefers the idea of climbing and jumping incorporated into combat (instead of just "running around like a headless chicken" in combat). And although she likes stealth based attacks, again, her character is way to loud to fit into that "hiding in the shadows waiting for the perfect time to strike" setup.

If anyone can think of anything that fits this role that is RAW I'd be very appreciative =)

I have however spoken things over with her, and she quite likes the idea of the combat style that the Prince of Persia (Sands of Time) game uses, where the character runs up walls and flips backwards over enemies while dealing a highly damaging attack using the fall to gain extra power, and running along walls to jump into enemies. This seems like a fair thing to let her do, as its a reasonable form of attack to make, however clearly it would need some skill to do.

So I am now tinkering with the idea of making a feat (similar to the Tactical Feats in PH2, ie- that gives multiple combat choice in one feat) which gives the abilities to:

• Run up a wall and backflip off to attack an enemy, this must be linear in movement - Jump and Balance check required depending on distance wished to backflip, and allows the same trade off Power Attack does (I was thinking that maybe if you can get "behind" the target or maybe just the first time you do it in an encounter the enemy will become flatfooted to your attacks). Failure by a small amount on Balance will allow you to perform the move, but will let them have an AoO, Failure by a large amount on Balance will simply leave not let you get up the wall. Failure with the Jump check will just make you land short, if you are still in range to hit everything is the same, otherwise nothing happens you just performed a pointless jump.
  
  
• Run at a wall and jump off at a target, this must be predominantly in the same direction - Simply make a Jump check to see if you can make the distance you wish (+5, so your still in mid-air when you reach your target) a run up isn't needed, but the DC will be greater if there isn't one. This will give the enemy an AoO before you hit, but let you trade AC for both attack and damage bonuses, which should be defined before you jump.
  
  
• Run and jump off another person to attack a target, this can let you move in extreme of loose right angles, but not a direct line - This would require a run up, and the "Jump" to be taken 5 feet before the first enemy (so the distance you have to jump is the distance between the two enemies +5), unless you fail this Jump check by more than 10 you perform an simple attack that does unarmed attack damage and has a chance to knock them prone. You then take a balance check in-order to jump off the first enemy and into the second, failing this will just leave you occupying the first square you would've travelled through for the next part of the jump. The second enemy's combat is treated identically to the above move.

I have yet to bash out the exact numbers for these, but I'd like some feedback on how useful/unbalancing this can be and where I should be looking to decide on the DC if the above is fair.

((ps, sorry for such a long post))

[Attilargh]

Find yourself Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords and tell her to multiclass to Swordsage and take a look at the Tiger Claw manuvers. That's the easy way. Also take a look in the Complete Scoundrel for some skill tricks.

By the way, you're reinventing the wheel there a bit. Up The Walls is already a feat (if a psionic one), as are many of the other features.

[serow]

Do your other players enjoy this sorta energetic combat?
If they do, you don't have to make a feat for it, just have it as part of the skill system.

[Somebloke]

a) Get out Tome of Battle.

b) Wait until 4e comes out, and then play a rogue.

[Jayabalard]

c)Let them describe their attacks in that style without giving them any extra mechanical advantage for it. Don't get so caught up in the notion that you have to have mechanics rules for every action that the player takes; attacks are highly abstracted, so there doesn't have to be a real mechanical difference between saying "I run up the wall and backflip off and attack (roll my d20)" vs "I walk foward and attack (roll my d20)"

[The Rose Dragon]

d) Get Tome of Battle.

Cause it's a good book.

[MorkaisChosen]

Up the Walls is the coolest feat ever for that playstyle. If they have two feats to burn, Wild Talent and Up the Walls can make some fairly awesome tricks (especially with Spring Attack- run up the wall, hit someone while you're on, and land on the other side ready to flank, sort of thing...).

[DementedFellow]

When I first read the title I thought it was about platforming and landing in a pit of spikes, repeatedly.

[Whiplord]

Or just play Exalted.

[Paragon Badger]

No need to change the game at all, just the setting.

-Chandeliers/platforms to jump on/off. Doubly cool if it involves something to use the ride skill with. ;-)

-Tall monsters to climb on (since you can't sneak attack an enemy if you cannot reach their vitals)

-Combat while climbing (...interesting)

-Ect.

Edit: And Balance. I once wanted to have a pair of characters fighting on nigh-epic tightropes, for which their checks would automatically succede... if only for the coolness factor.

[quiet1mi]

i have the same problem... and I tell him to describe what he is doing in his attack so it does not slow down combat... although i will recommend if he is high enough level use skill tricks from complete scoundrel... if he is unwilling then tell him his character knows how to climb and jump but does not know how to apply them to combat... that is what the skill tricks are for... tricks you can do with skills

[SofS]

Complete Warrior has the Raptor School tactical feat. It has one stealth-based attack, one jumping-based attack, and one cloak-based feint. It might help. There's also Tumbling Feint, which is good if flashiness is preferred over getting much out of an action. There are a number of good skill tricks in Complete Scoundrel for this purpose as well.

Your proposed tactical feat does more than many tactical feats, but the situations are very specific. Consider how balanced you think it is against the other feats already in play, not necessarily against the feats a person could be taking.

In any case, being the DM, you have the authority to just do what you think makes sense for the universe. If you think that somebody who jumps on a target from a height deserves extra damage, make it so. There's nothing in the Jump skill I can think of that actually prevents someone from jumping off of a person into another person, and anyone with Spring Attack should certainly be able to try this if they want to. Just treat their bounce attacks as unarmed attacks (with a bonus to damage if you think it applies) or as trip attacks or as both. So long as no one is annoyed, you have no problems.

[FlyMolo]

Up the Walls is the coolest feat ever for that playstyle. If they have two feats to burn, Wild Talent and Up the Walls can make some fairly awesome tricks (especially with Spring Attack- run up the wall, hit someone while you're on, and land on the other side ready to flank, sort of thing...).

Yes, Win. Although, if the player had been good and deserved a cookie, you could give him/her wild talent for free. Or take a level in PsyWar.

[Ascension]

Skill tricks. You want skill tricks. Complete Scoundrel. Walk the Walls isn't really that useful (unless the errata-ed it when I wasn't looking), but Leaping Climber, Wall Jumper, and Corner Perch could be fun. Especially if you combine Leaping Climber and Wall Jumper to jump vertically onto a wall (the jump check is made as if you had a running start even if you didn't move), scramble upwards a little ways, and then jump horizontally off the wall (again as if you have a running start). Essentially the two skills together give you a platformer-style wall jump.

[Reaper_Monkey]

Thank you for all your replies, after now borrowing the Complete Scoundrel, it seems that the skill tricks are probably a much better fit and make more sense than acquiring those abilities via feats. So gold stars to those who pointed that out as a solution, I've not got any access to Tome of Battle, but I've heard lots of good things about it so I may very well be trying to obtain that soon =)

And DementedFellow, it very well might be, I have a feeling there will be lots of spiked pits being put in, with some chandeliers... maybe both at the same time =D