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  1. - Top - End - #391
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    Hmm...no response ont he smite. Would you prefer soemthing else linked to attacks of opportunity?
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  2. - Top - End - #392
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    I've finally got round to addign some crunch to the Mad Dok. Thoughts?


    Also, bhu, I'm not a massive fan of smites. They're too... limited I find. A barbarian's rage lasts for several rounds per use, but with smites you get one attack boosted per use...

    Given the class' name includes "berzerker", maybe something rage-orientated might be more appropriate?

  3. - Top - End - #393
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    I still just think the Really Urty Syringe doesn't need a drwback to be used.

    What if i made the smite per encounter instead of per day?
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  4. - Top - End - #394
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    As with OneWingedAngel's Paladin fix from the Wizards boards?

    Yes. Hells yes.

    And changing the Really 'Urty Syringe. Also adding some more New Bitz.

    Question: should the Mad Dok get more New Bitz?
    Last edited by Edge; 2008-10-25 at 03:50 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #395
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    A New Bit at 5th level, along w/ the cap ability, wouldn't be out of line, I'd say. You can go full mechanical in all limbs that way or, if you don't mind not being able to manipulate anything w/ your hands ever again, getting a Power Klaw on both arms and go full melee the rest of your career. either that or learn to do things with your toes and lips that your fingers used to do.

    For the 'Urty Syringe, do you supply the poison or is it generated by the ability, as that's kinda unclear to me how that works. Can you also change the poison as you gain experience, as you can use a more expensive poison w/ levels gained? And for the Really 'Urty Syringe, does it let you get a second poison to choose when you inject it into people? I'd also raise the price max w/ that ability, perhaps to twice your class level, to get access to some other injury poisons, which you're otherwise limited to mostly organic poisons from various giant insects.
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  6. - Top - End - #396
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    Clarfiying and editing as we speak.

  7. - Top - End - #397
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    A few nitpicks

    You might wanna shorten the timer on Eeee-hahaha!

    Teknikal Doodahs: Might wanna add Disable Device

    Whatchamahickey: Are these still Ex abilities?

    Saves: Saves are usually 10 plus half hit dice plus appropriate stat

    awesome job so far!
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  8. - Top - End - #398
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    Reviewing now... and done. Also fixed the formatting on the Whatchamahickey table.
    Last edited by Edge; 2008-10-27 at 06:47 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #399
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    Okay I changed smite and added the capstone. Lemme know what ya think.
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  10. - Top - End - #400
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    And whilst you think on the IB, I shall start up the next critter:

    GRAY SUNS



    ”Appearance is an illusion. You see what I want you to see. Nothing more.”

    The Nomadic Gray Orcs rarely encounter a student of the Sublime Way. But the Setting Sun style left an impression on some of them, and now there is a monastery out in the desolate lands where young Grays learn the art.

    BECOMING A GRAY SUN
    The Gray Suns adopt the most promising practitioners of the Setting Sun style to join them.

    ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
    Race: Gray Orc
    Maneuvers: Must have at least 3 Setting Sun Maneuvers or Stances
    Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Falling Sun Attack
    Skills: Bluff 4 Ranks, Hide 4 Ranks, Sense Motive 4 Ranks
    Special: Cannot have any Maneuvers or Stances from a style other than Setting Sun or Shadow Hand.


    Class Skills
    The Gray Sun's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Martial Lore (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), and Tumble (Dex).
    Skills Points at Each Level : 4 + int

    Hit Dice: d8

    Code:
       BAB  Fort    Ref    Will  Abilities
    1. +0    +0     +2     +2    Improved Trip
    2. +1    +0     +3     +3    Takedown Mastery
    3. +2    +1     +3     +3    Improved Feint
    4. +3    +1     +4     +4    Improved Grapple
    5. +3    +1     +4     +4    Grappling Mastery
    6. +4    +2     +5     +5    Feint Mastery
    7. +5    +2     +5     +5    Improved Disarm
    8. +6    +2     +6     +6    Disarming Mastery
    9. +6    +3     +6     +6    Deadly Feint
    10.+7    +3     +7     +7    Self Defense Master
    Weapon Proficiencies: Gray Suns gain no new weapon or armor proficiencies.

    Maneuvers: At each odd numbered level you gain a new Maneuver from the Setting Sun, or Shadow Hand discipline. You must meet the Maneuver's Prerequisite to learn it. You add your full Gray Sun Levels to your Initiator Level to determine your total Initiator Level, and your highest level Maneuvers Known. At 3rd, 6th, and 9th levels you gain an additional Maneuver readied per day.

    Stances Known: At 5th level you learn a new Stance from the Setting Sun, or Shadow Hand disciplines if you meet it's Prerequisites.

    Improved Trip: The Gray Sun gains the Improved Trip Feat as a Bonus feat at 1st level.

    Takedown Mastery (Ex): At 2nd level the Gray Sun gains a Competence Bonus to all Trip attempts (including ones made as part of a Maneuver) equal to half your Gray Sun level.

    Improved Feint: The Gray Sun gains the Improved Feint Feat as a Bonus feat at 3rd level.

    Improved Grapple: The Gray Sun gains the Improved Grapple Feat as a Bonus feat at 4th level.

    Grappling Mastery (Ex): At 5th level the Gray Sun gains a Competence Bonus to all Grapple attempts (including ones made as part of a Maneuver) equal to half your Gray Sun level.


    Feint Mastery (Ex): At 5th level the Gray Sun gains a Competence Bonus to all Feint attempts (including ones made as part of a Maneuver) equal to half your Gray Sun level.

    Improved Disarm: The Gray Sun gains the Improved Disarm Feat as a Bonus feat at 7th level.

    Disarm Mastery (Ex): At 8th level the Gray Sun gains a Competence Bonus to all Disarm attempts (including ones made as part of a Maneuver) equal to half your Gray Sun level, and you may attempt to Disarm an armed opponent even if you are not armed yourself as you attack the limb wielding the weapon.

    Deadly Feint (Ex): If you successfully Feint, and then successfully hit with your followup attack, you may add the result of your Bluff Check to the damage when performing a Setting Sun or Shadow Strike Maneuver. Successfully using Deadly Feint uses up a Readied Maneuver.

    Self Defense Mastery (Ex): A number of times per day equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1) you may automatically Take 10 on a Trip check made after an opponent fails to Trip you, or Grapple checks made to escape/resist Grapples initiated by an opponent, or attack rolls made while fighting Defensively.

    PLAYING A GRAY SUN
    You do your best to appear as a normal Orcish nomad/gypsy. You don't want outsiders to believe you are as much of a threat as you truly are, to the point of eschewing most obvious weapons. You want to appear to be a non combatant.
    Combat: The Gray Sun's prefer to fight unarmed because it's easier to maintain the appearance of not being a danger. Similarly most magic items they use are non descript. This doesn't mean they are any less lethal, just that they want to be quite and not so obvious.
    Advancement: Since the Gray Suns want to appear to be noncombatants, you would be well advised to concentrate on unarmed combat and Bluff. You'll be using both a lot.
    Resources: A Gray Sun may always count on his brothers for food or lodging. Other help will depend on the situation at the time. But he must always repay the favor he is shown whenever it is requested.

    GRAY SUNS IN THE WORLD
    ”That Orc just…just slapped Eli and knocked him plum out. Damnedest thing I ever saw…”
    You are considered an oddity, even among the other Gray Orcs. Willing to go where they will not, willing to do what they will not. The other humanoids find you equally as puzzling since you don’t fit their definition of a stereotypical Orc. Most simply avoid you, while others are drawn to your exotic nature.
    Daily Life: The Gray Suns life is a monastic one until he has learned the basics of his art. He is then told to go into the world, and make his mark upon it, and return when he has succeeded. Exactly what qualifies as success depends on the individual monastery. The Gray Suns are usually at a loss as to what to do without their usual daily routine, and most get into never ending trouble.
    Notables: Brother Merth (CN Male Gray Orc Swordsage 6/Gray Sun 5) has left the monastery to make his way in the world. While many others have long ago gone back, he still does not truly consider himself a success.
    Organizations: The Gray Suns themselves are an organization. They have no real goals beyond the advancement of their craft, and the betterment of life for their members. And occasionally the defense of their allies or people as well..

    NPC Reaction
    NPC's tend to think of you as gypsy scum beneath their notice. If you're perceived as a threat it's only because of your race.

    GRAY SUNS IN THE GAME
    A sect of secretive Gray Orc enforcers should make most people nervous. And while the Gray Suns aren't enforcers/assassins as such they do believe in protecting their people posthumously (i.e. revenge).
    Adaptation: This PrC assumes that Gray Orcs are more similar to gypsy nomads than say desert nomads, but that shouldn't be much of a problem to tweak.
    Encounters: If the PC's have recently assaulted a gray Orc caravan, odds are they'll be receiving a visit from the Gray Suns.

    Sample Encounter
    Give an example of how one might encounter a member of this PrC.
    EL 12: The PC's have been asked to raid a local monastery and steal a scroll by the authorities. The deal smells bad. Why are the authorities asking the PC's to raid a temple in their own city? Why have they been told to beware of an Orc, whom the local populace speaks positively of.


    Name
    CN Male gray Orc Swordsage 6/Gray Sun 5
    Init +3, Senses: Listen +4, Spot +4
    Languages Orc, Common
    Quick to Act +2
    ------------------------------------------------
    AC 21, touch 15, flat-footed 20 (+1 Dex, +4 Wis, +6 Armor)
    AC w/Periapt 24, touch 18, flat-footed 23
    (+1 Dex, +7 Wis, +6 Armor)
    hp 60 (11 HD)
    Fort +4, Ref +11, Will +13
    ------------------------------------------------
    Speed 40 ft. (8 squares)
    Melee Unarmed Strike +9/+4 (1d8+6/1d8+9 with Periapt)
    Melee +1/+1 Quarterstaff +10/+5 (1d6+3)
    Ranged +1 Sling +10 (1d4+1)
    Base Atk +7, Grp +9
    Atk Options Discipline Focus (Shadow Sun, Weapon Focus, Insightful Strike +4/+7 w/Periapt), Feint Mastery (+2), Grappling Mastery (+2), Takedown Mastery (+2)
    Combat Gear 3 Cure Serious Wounds Potions
    Stances Known 1st: Child of Shadow, Step of the Wind
    3rd: Assassin's Stance
    6th: Shifting Defense
    Maneuvers Known 1st: Clinging Shadow Strike, Counter Charge, Mighty Throw, Sudden Leap, Wind Stride
    2nd: Baffling Defense, Clever Positioning, Cloak of Deception
    3rd: Devastating Throw, Feigned Opening, Strength Draining Strike
    4th: Obscuring Shadow Veil
    5th: Soaring Throw
    6th: Ballista Throw
    -----------------------------------------------
    Abilities Str 14, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 18 (24 w/Periapt), Cha 6
    SQ Light Sensitivity, Orc Blood, Scent, Racial Weapon Proficiencies, AC Bonus
    Feats Falling Sun Strike, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Superior Unarmed Strike, Improved Feint (B), Improved Grapple (B), Improved Trip (B)
    Skills Balance +8, Bluff +6, Climb +6, Concentration +5, Hide +11, Knowledge (Local) +6, Martial Lore +6, Move Silently +11, Sense Motive +13, Tumble +11
    Possessions Periapt of Wisdom +6, +6 Bracers of Armor, +1 Quarterstaff, +1 Sling, 3 Cure Serious Wounds Potions, 600 GP


    EPIC GRAY SUN

    Hit Die: d8
    Skills Points at Each Level : 4 + int
    Bonus Feats: The Epic Gray Sun gains a Bonus Feat every 2 levels higher than 20th.
    Last edited by Bhu; 2009-02-04 at 06:49 AM.
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  11. - Top - End - #401
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    hmm, i think Grey Suns fit the Scro better, as they have an established monk tradition, as lawful Orc soldiers out to cleanse the elven menace from the Spelljamming universe
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  12. - Top - End - #402
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    Someone recently reminded me of the Scro. I intend to do some stuff for them once I find their stats and read up on them.
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  13. - Top - End - #403
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    DO the requirements seem a little too steep? I just realized to meet them I'd have to make a few extra Maneuvers for it to only have Setting Sun Maneuvers. But I still have to make Tiger Claw Maneuvers for the Tigerskin Berserker...
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  14. - Top - End - #404
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    i think it would be far easier to just extend the class to also being limited to another school, like Shadow Hand, or removing the restriction than to try to rebalance Setting Sun w/ additional manuevers. Just my 2 coppers.

    As for the Scro, they appear in Dragon #339, page 30. You can also find an alternate set of stats for them at Spelljammer.org but I find the Dragon magazine version provides far more useful information.
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  15. - Top - End - #405
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    Shadow Hand it is. I'l begin perusing my back stoc of Dragon, I should have that issue somewhere.
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  16. - Top - End - #406
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    Okay if Scro are meant to be a warrior race in SPelljammer why are they Monks when they have guns?
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  17. - Top - End - #407
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    Guns in Spelljammer are still Smoke powder weaponry at best, making them slow and unreliable.
    As for why they're monks (fighter/monks, to be closer to true), that's because the Scro are essentially the flip side of the orc coin, changing from barbarians, champions of chaos, to monks, warriors of law. Part of their fighting tradition is to be able to fight regardless of the weaponry available to them, which lends itself to training as monks.
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  18. - Top - End - #408
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    Heck they'd be more effective remaining barbarians and taking Improved and Superior Unarmed Strike.
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  19. - Top - End - #409
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    hey, they were designed during 2nd edition days and they were supposed to be the polar opposites of their chaotic, lesser kin. if i really wanted to make them fierce as they are, i'll use the monk from the Pathfinder book (which i fondly call D&D 3.75), which happens to be a free PDF in beta form from the Paizo store, last i checked, which was admittedly a couple months ago, so things may have changed since then.
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  20. - Top - End - #410
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    Perhaps i can think up a PrC to make up for some of the monks shortcomings...


    I just noticed Gray Orcs have light sensitivity, but no low light vision or Dark vision. Is this a typo???
    Last edited by Bhu; 2008-11-10 at 10:21 PM.
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  21. - Top - End - #411
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    Got most of the class abilities up.
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    You have grappling mastery twice and I think Unarmed Mastery is a misleading name for the ability, as it's not so much his ability to fight unarmed so much as its to make their opponent fight that way. If you don't want to go w/ Disarming Mastery, I'd go w/ something like Equalizing Mastery or some such. I can't think of a good name myself other than that. My thesaurus fails me ~_~.
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  23. - Top - End - #413
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    Got it all cept for levels 9 and 10, wanna make one have something to do with bluff or feints cause bluff is a prereq.
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  24. - Top - End - #414
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    So anyone think Deadly Feint is too powerful?
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  25. - Top - End - #415
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    I think that Deadly Feint would be more balanced at half the check value, as otherwise that's another 20-30 damage on top of the enormous strike damage you could have at that point.
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  26. - Top - End - #416
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    I think that Deadly Feint would be more balanced at half the check value, as otherwise that's another 20-30 damage on top of the enormous strike damage you could have at that point.
    I know, but you'll only get the extra damage on the one attack, even if full attacking, and if it misses your still sol. Plus this guy won't hit as often as a fighter to begin with, and you have you have to successfully Feint first. It would add extra damage, but not very often.
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  27. - Top - End - #417
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    How bout if theres a limited number of uses per day or perhaps encounter?
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  28. - Top - End - #418
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    Capstone is up
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  29. - Top - End - #419
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    Put that way, I guess full Feint result to damage isn't that bad. It's just that you generally have so many additional dice of damage already from a strike that the damage bonus just uberizes it further.

    When I think about it, Deadly Feint is basically a Boost Maneuver, or at least it could be written as such. Making it usable a number of times per encounter in that light would probably make it usable as is.
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  30. - Top - End - #420
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    Default Re: Any Orc/Goblinoid Fans??

    On the wizards board they mentioned limiting it by making deadly feint use up a Readied Maneuver. SOund good to everyone?
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