A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default If you move away, does the magic track you?

    Ok, so let's say someone targets you with a spell. If you either 1) readied an action to move away or 2) cast Celerity and then a teleport-type spell, then will the spell still hit you?

    Assume these varying circumstances

    1. The spell is magic missile
    2. The spell is a ranged touch attack such as Ray of Enfeeblement
    3. The spell is a targeted spell such as Hold Person

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: If you move away, does the magic track you?

    If it's magic missile, then yes. IDK the others.
    EDIT:Range, of course, is a factor. I knew that.
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    Default Re: If you move away, does the magic track you?

    It would depend on whether or not you break LoS or move out of the spell's range. If so, then yes, none of the spells actually work, as you break line of sight prior to them being cast.

    If you don't either break line of sight, or move out of the spell's range, then no, you can't "dodge" the spells. Just like you can't ready an action to dodge after the arrow is shot.
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    Default Re: If you move away, does the magic track you?

    I'm going to guess at

    1. Yes
    2. Maybe
    3. Yes

    All three are contingent on your remaining in range; if you teleport to the other side of the planet, no, nothing is going to target you.
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: If you move away, does the magic track you?

    I'd say no to all of them. Think about this, you've readied an action to try and move away if someone casts a spell at you. Someone begins casting, but how do you know if you are the target? By the time you work it out, it's too late because the spell is about to hit you. You might be able to ready an action to run away as soon as any spellcaster begins casting.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: If you move away, does the magic track you?

    Quote Originally Posted by holywhippet View Post
    I'd say no to all of them. Think about this, you've readied an action to try and move away if someone casts a spell at you. Someone begins casting, but how do you know if you are the target? By the time you work it out, it's too late because the spell is about to hit you. You might be able to ready an action to run away as soon as any spellcaster begins casting.
    Well, the target is also a caster, so presumably they could use Spellcraft to check it out. Which is what I would (and do) make players do in similar circumstances.

    That said though, the system doesn't make specific allowances for that being prohibited. That would be akin to saying "You don't know which of your 4 companions the archer is drawing a bead on, so you can't ready to do X when he fires at you."
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    Quote Originally Posted by theos911 View Post
    Fighter: I can kill a guy in one turn.
    Cleric: I can kill a guy in half a turn.
    Wizard: I can kill a guy before my turn!
    Bard: I can get 12 idiots to go kill guys for me
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    Default Re: If you move away, does the magic track you?

    Well, presumably, you'd cast celerity after the enemy spellcaster has fired his ray, for example. Before it hits you, you Celerity, and proceed to port somewhere else. At least that's how I see it. Perhaps against targeted spells I'll need to move behind total cover. Need to find that Blockade spell again.

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    Default Re: If you move away, does the magic track you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    Well, presumably, you'd cast celerity after the enemy spellcaster has fired his ray, for example. Before it hits you, you Celerity, and proceed to port somewhere else. At least that's how I see it. Perhaps against targeted spells I'll need to move behind total cover. Need to find that Blockade spell again.
    I think this would be really cool, but I'm with majority opinion, even if you could do it, D&D isn't designed to support it.

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    Default Re: If you move away, does the magic track you?

    Ok, how about I Celerity, and then cast Blockade? I'll have instant total cover.

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    Default Re: If you move away, does the magic track you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    Ok, how about I Celerity, and then cast Blockade? I'll have instant total cover.

    Casting Blockade is swift action, so that's not possible.


    For the original question, I'd follow the rules for Flicker mystery- a round/CL buff that allows you to move as an immediate action. According to the description, if you move in response to an attack then it has a 50% miss chance. Therefore, a ray spell or spells that require an attack roll would have a 50% miss chance while others, provided that the target remains within the range of the spell, would hit no matter what. If the target was to use teleport however, I'd rule it a 50:50 chance of avoiding the spell.
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  11. - Top - End - #11
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    Default Re: If you move away, does the magic track you?

    Or Celerity and then Wall of Ice or Force. that should work.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: If you move away, does the magic track you?

    I think some of it comes down to 'when does your move take place' As I understand It if I made the declaration.

    "If the Wizard looks like he is going to cast a spell I am going to move and find cover" (and there is a Stone wall 15 feet away and well in your movement)

    Then when the Wizard Starts to do his spell stuff, Your Declared action kicks in and You move and Stand behind the wall.

    If both actions are Simultaneous Then the MM or other spells still hit you. However if your declaired action is considered to be done and completed before the wizards spell goes off then I do not think you are a valid target for his spells any more.

    (why you wouldn thave just move dbehind the wall ahead of time I dont know)


    I dont know how Celerity works to answer that part of the question. If it lets you do something as an Imediate action and yout hen use it to teleport I think you are then no longer a valid target for the spells (unless you teleport to a location where they can still go off)

  13. - Top - End - #13
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    Default Re: If you move away, does the magic track you?

    Celerity is an immediate action spell. It grants you a standard action which you take immediately. You basically speed up to the point you get an extra free action BEFORE normal time resumes. Higherlevel wizards use this chance to cast Time Stop. Lower level wizards can use this time to, in theory, move out of the way, or put something between the spell and you. If you're behind a wall, you are no longer a valid target.

    The question is: Can a wall of force float in the air? I don't want the wlal of force to just fall down to the ground if I cast it while flying.

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    Default Re: If you move away, does the magic track you?

    Celerity and readied actions, as I understand, and interrupting actions, and thus they resolve before the person acts. Thus, say you Celerity and Dimension Door somewhere that's still in range. That action resolves and the order returns to the enemy, who then proceeds with what they were about to do and fires the ray/magic missile/whatever at you.


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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: If you move away, does the magic track you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    The question is: Can a wall of force float in the air? I don't want the wlal of force to just fall down to the ground if I cast it while flying.
    Doesn't say in the description I find, but anything conjured or summoned has to be so on a floor that can support it (to prevent Wall of Stones above someone to crush them when gravity sets in). Since the description does not really say it floats, I would use them as the more physical walls. That is, it has to be on the ground. Even if it (might) be effectivly weightless, having no mass.

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    Default Re: If you move away, does the magic track you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    Ok, so let's say someone targets you with a spell. If you either 1) readied an action to move away or 2) cast Celerity and then a teleport-type spell, then will the spell still hit you?
    In all cases, yes, the spell will still hit you (and if you break line-of-effect or move out of range, the caster can pick a different target, if available).

    This is because both mechanics let you interrupt what the other guy was going to do, and perform your action first (this is akin to the "stack" in Magic: the Gathering). So in both cases, the enemy casts his spell only after you do your move or teleport, not "partially before and partially after" which is a concept that doesn't exist in D&D.
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  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: If you move away, does the magic track you?

    I would say that, while you can ready an action to go off before their spell is cast, it would work as Kurald Galain describes -- the caster could then re-target their spell on you, target someone else, or elect not to cast it (and would, in that case, lose neither their action nor their spell.)

    Readying an action to go off 'during' the spell's effect -- stepping out of the magic missile, ray, or touch while they're in the air -- strikes me as impossible. Those spells are of Instantaneous duration, and that, by definition, means there is no opportunity to act while they are going off. The moment a spellcaster has actually cast Magic Missile, the missile has already struck you -- the time it takes to go through the air is low enough to be mechanically nonexistant, below the granularity the system uses even for readied or immediate actions. Therefore, nothing at all can happen during that time period, not even a Celerity or a readied response.

    In most cases, you can't interrupt the process of something that has Instantaneous duration by any means -- you could interrupt the caster just as it looks like they're about to start and act before it (if you can make the spellcraft check to recognize the spell they're about to cast, or if you're just responding to any spell -- though in the latter case you would have to act 'blind' of what they were trying to do), or you could elect to act immediately after it, but you can't act while one of those spells is 'in the air'.

    (Additionally, allowing people to ready an action to act while an arrow, magic missile, or sword swing is in midflight would have unfortunate consequences -- it would mean that people could, basically, ready an action to automatically avoid the first attack they take before their next turn. I don't think that that really makes sense.)
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2008-04-04 at 04:47 AM.

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    Default Re: If you move away, does the magic track you?

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    Default Re: If you move away, does the magic track you?

    I'd say that a readied action doesn't stop the caster unless you get out of range or are unreachable. Celerity though, works. So a 'Port is going to help there.

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    Default Re: If you move away, does the magic track you?

    This would mean, exagerating the rule, that every D&D Character can dodge an arrow and maybe even bullet, assuming he is aware of the incoming shot. Unless Celerity is used, because it speeds you up that high, I'd rule no.
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    Default Re: If you move away, does the magic track you?

    I'm going to go with No for situation 1 - as has been said you'd need to know what is being done to know if you were being targeted, so by the time you did know you were the target it would be too late to move. Besides the game has a mechanism for moving to avoid a spell that can be dodged - its a reflex save.

    Situation 2 - I'd go Yes for that.

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    Default Re: If you move away, does the magic track you?

    All of these spells hit you, unless you break range.

    Readied actions are triggered by very specific circumstances, and go off right before the action that triggered them. So you could only dodge the spell if you moved out of range.

    Whether you dodge at all depends on your readied action, and maybe your spellcraft check, depending.

    If you say I dodge if he casts an offensive spell, and you fail your check, you don't dodge. If you say I dodge if he casts a spell at all, your action triggers.
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