A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Stycotl's Avatar

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    Default Re: epic spellcasting for martial initiators: brainstorm

    that didn't work...
    thanks for posting the correct link.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: epic spellcasting for martial initiators: brainstorm

    ok, before we actually get to statting up traits and stuff, let's make a list of the traits that we don't want to leave to ad hoc. the rest can be decided on an ad hoc, case-by-case basis.

    Traits to be formulated:
    # of damage dice
    type of damage dice
    damage penalties/bonuses
    damage types (for strange ones; vile, coldfire, dessicating, etc)
    hit prob penalties/bonuses
    touch attacks
    ranged attack potential
    save DC (different than save penalties/bonuses)
    ability score modifications
    ability damage/drain/burn
    negative levels
    types of bonuses/penalties
    conditions (stunned, checked, staggered, etc)
    repeated damage
    repeated effects
    movement penalties/bonuses
    ac bonuses/penalties
    save penalties/bonuses
    skill penalties/bonuses
    initiative penalties/bonuses
    utilization of special attacks/actions (charge, sunder, disarm, etc)
    cover/concealment
    granting/restricting/denying actions
    granting/restricting/denying reach
    number of actions/attacks affected
    overcoming/granting dr
    overcoming/granting sr
    overcoming/granting hardness
    overcoming/granting resistances
    overcoming/granting immunities
    healing

    ?

    some of these will overlap, like conditions and bonuses/penalties, or conditions/restricting actions, etc. so we should check them as we go to make sure that they mesh.

    EDIT: ad hoc bin:
    feat duplication
    ?

    what am i missing?
    Last edited by Stycotl; 2008-03-23 at 12:37 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: epic spellcasting for martial initiators: brainstorm

    How about number of affected attacks? How does that scale?

    Things like Inferno Blade + Time Stands Still are already potent. Full attack of Enervating Strikes, or Strikes of Perfect Clarity would need serious balancing, unless you just ignore full attack strikes. As there aren't very many.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: epic spellcasting for martial initiators: brainstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbitrarity View Post
    How about number of affected attacks? How does that scale?

    Things like Inferno Blade + Time Stands Still are already potent. Full attack of Enervating Strikes, or Strikes of Perfect Clarity would need serious balancing, unless you just ignore full attack strikes. As there aren't very many.
    yeah, i'm not sure how to handle that one. especially since some boosts cover one entire round. so they affect multiple attacks as well (potentially).

    i'll put it up there for now. if it proves problematic, we'll toss it in the ad hoc bin.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: epic spellcasting for martial initiators: brainstorm

    edited the list of traits to be formulated in post #32, and added the ad hoc bin.

    i'm off to bed. good night, all.
    Last edited by Stycotl; 2008-03-23 at 12:38 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: epic spellcasting for martial initiators: brainstorm

    ought to specify that the list i am creating in post #32 is still malleable. there will be plenty that will be taken off of the list and thrown into the ad hoc bin, and plenty that i missed that will be added to the soon-to-be traits of the epic maneuvers.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: epic spellcasting for martial initiators: brainstorm

    just so you guys know, this didn't just fall off of the planet. it is currently being developed.

    i would like to know how people think that stances would best be handled.

    i have a couple of ideas off of the top of my head. so far, normal maneuvers will work similarly to how epic spells do now, 1 per 10 ranks in martial lore per day. similar factor/mitigating factor build, though both factors/mitigating factors are going to be capped depending on levels. so, for stances:

    a) epic stances are similar to normal epic maneuvers, but are bought separately, and character can initiate 1 stance/day/20 martial lore ranks

    b) epic stances are really more of a boost, an epic maneuver that can only affect nonepic stances from the same discipline. they would be bought normally, right alongside, and at the same price as normal epic maneuvers.

    c) all maneuvers are split up into their respective types, boost, strike, counter, stance, and so on. stance would just be a normal epic maneuver that has a longer duration and a few other defining quirks. i was thinking of a 24-hr duration 'spell' effect standard for stances. other than that, they would be bought as a normal epic maneuver.

    d) had a few other ideas, but can't remember any of them. if any of you have any ideas, good or not, let me know. i think b is a crappy idea mostly cuz i don't think it would mesh well. but if anyone has insights, it could make it easier than the others. i was curious about a, but i think that i like c overall.

    aaron out.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: epic spellcasting for martial initiators: brainstorm

    yay! i'm an ogre today. as soon as that potion wears off though, i shrink back to a normal, scrawny human being...
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: epic spellcasting for martial initiators: brainstorm

    If the Epic Spellcasting feat and rules were eliminated and higher level spell slots and spells per day just increased on the same calculation they always did.

    One could just convert/make epic spells like normal spells only stronger or even more easy just create a new system which allows spells to continually be cast as higher level spells.

    For example, a fireball could be made more powerful by casting it with a higher level spell slot.

    Since a fireball normally is a 3rd level spell, every 4 levels higher all its numerical values double.
    So a 7th level Fireball would do 2d6 fire damage per caster level (max 30d6), with a range of 800ft. + 80ft. caster level and radius of 40ft. and DC of 17 + ability modifier.
    An 11th level Fireball would do 3d6 fire damage per caster level (max 45d6) with a range of 1200ft. + 120ft. per caster level and radius of 60ft. and DC of 21 + ability modifier.
    A 15th level Fireball would do 4d6 fire damage per caster level (max 60d6) with a range of 1600ft. + 160ft. per caster level and radius of 80ft. and DC of 25 + ability modifier.
    A 19th level Fireball would do 5d6 fire damage per caster level (max 75d6) with a range of 2000ft. + 200ft. per caster level and radius of 100ft. and DC of 29 + ability modifier.

    A Wish spell could also be improved if it were casted as a 19th level spell and recreate the effects of any other spell below 19th level or effects twice as good as a normal wish spell or 29th level and create effects three times as good as a normal wish spell.

    Nearly any spell can be improved by this calculation.

    For every (Spell level + 1) the spell is cast higher than its original level, all numerical values are increased by a multiplier of (1 + # of times it is increased this way) except the per # caster levels and d#.
    Everything is perspective. You can't excuse or ignore anything because of that.

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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: epic spellcasting for martial initiators: brainstorm

    that could be interesting. for some maneuvers i don't think that it would work so cleanly. i am not yet sure if the epic system already in place will work, but i'm intent on finding out.
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: epic spellcasting for martial initiators: brainstorm

    i've been working on a system for epic maneuvers myself. my dm and me came up with some basics:

    Epic Blade Magic [EPIC]
    Prerequisites: 24 ranks in Martial Lore, 24 ranks in one discipline's key skill, initiator level 17 (for this discipline)
    Benefit: You may develop and initiate epic maneuvers as detailed below. You gain 1 epic maneuver readied for every 10 ranks in martial lore. You may recover epic maneuvers ranks/10 in its key skill times per day.

    Seeds: every non-epic maneuver is a seed. To use a seed for the research of an epic maneuver you must know this particular non-epic maneuver, have 24 ranks in its discipline's key skill and initiator level 17 for its discipline.
    Resource Cost: same as for epic spells.
    Development Time: same as for epic spells.
    XP Cost: same as for epic spells.
    Adding Seed DCs: same as for epic spells.
    Combining Initiation Actions: if you combine two seeds, the initiation action automatically becomes as long as the longest of one of the seeds used. The final epic maneuver determines when each seed is supposed to go in effect.
    Combining Range, Targets, Area, and Effect: same as for epic spells.
    Combining Durations: same as for epic spells.
    Saving Throws: same as for epic spells.

    the factors are a very sensitive issue. do you allow an increase of duration? do you allow to reduce the initation action (think of counters)? what about range, target and area?

    stances: i suggest giving an epic stance known for every 20 ranks in martial lore. to determine an epic stance's dc, i'd use the permanency factor for epic spells as a guideline. since a stance is in effect as long as you are conscious, it's nearly a permanent effect. thus, i propose multiplying the dc by 4, maybe 3, unless your seed is a stance itself (if you combine assassin's stance+cloak of deception you only need to multiply the dc of cloak of deception and then add the dc of assassin's stance). i also think that epic stances should not interfere with normal stances, meaning you can use a normal and an epic stance simultaneously.
    Last edited by zugschef; 2008-11-13 at 06:27 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: epic spellcasting for martial initiators: brainstorm

    it has been a few weeks since i last touched it, but my latest incarnation has thrown stances in as with the rest of the maneuvers--but they have a full-encounter duration. that way, they can be part of the same per-day usage as the rest of the maneuvers.

    your system looks good. it still looks raw though; you'll have to flesh it out so that we can see how damage is run, etc.

    eventually i'll get mine into the finished rough draft form and post it on the boards.

    good luck.

    aaron out.
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    Announcer— “Your cable television is experiencing difficulties. Please do not panic. Resist the temptation to read or talk to loved ones. Do not attempt sexual relations, as years of TV radiation have left your genitals withered and useless.”

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