Results 1 to 25 of 25
Thread: Mage: the Ascension
-
2008-03-22, 08:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Gender
Mage: the Ascension
A lot of my friends have been wanting to play a Mage game using the old books rather than the new stuff, but pretty much all of us lack enough experience to run an actual game. From the looks of things, I'm going to be roped into being GM, and I could use advice with making the game. It's been forever since I've played in a White Wolf game, so I'm looking for basic advice running a Mage game, possible storylines, the best way to construct enemies, etc.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.Last edited by DiscipleofBob; 2008-03-22 at 08:13 PM.
-
2008-03-22, 08:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Gender
Re: Mage: the Ascension
Mage is a sand box game. You try and put almost anything "together" in a D&D sense and the players literally snap their fingers and it's done. Let the players hang out and tell their characters, because nothing short of a bigger and badder Mage will challenge them combat wise.
-
2008-03-22, 10:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- Location
- bouncing around the world
- Gender
Re: Mage: the Ascension
i disagree with the above statement on a lot of levels. kind of.
mage certainly has the potential to be as was explained above.
but mage also has one of the easiest methods of challenging players even at higher power, if a gm is wily enough to utilize it. even just paradox alone can strip high-level mages of their power. and the creatures that can manipulate paradox can bring painful retribution on the heads of the mages.
my favorite thing to do was to run crossover games with vamp, werewolf, changeling, and wraith. that kept the players turning in circles too much to be able to focus on any one aspect too often. plus it was just fun. i love aspects of all of the systems, and enjoyed incorporating them. this makes it complicated however, and you have to know the other systems pretty well in order to do it. and this is not just mechanical knwledge of the different game systems, but historical and game-historical knowledge, interaction knowlegde, etc.
anyway, other than that, the things i did to make it fun were to maximize the story and the roleplay, and to keep the rollplay to a healthy, but minimal priority.my own diabolical experiments (homebrew)
my deviantART
my alter ego
Campaigns
Watchtower––Volume III (running since 2008)
Announcer— “Your cable television is experiencing difficulties. Please do not panic. Resist the temptation to read or talk to loved ones. Do not attempt sexual relations, as years of TV radiation have left your genitals withered and useless.”
Wiggum, checking— “Well I'll be damned.”
-
2008-03-22, 10:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- Gender
Re: Mage: the Ascension
How clever are your players? Because most of the spheres of magic can be used to accomplish just about anything (My favorite example is Matter; Produce explosions on command by converting a chunk of of the nearby terrain into Magnesium. Or a water cooler into Sodium.)
-
2008-03-22, 10:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- I wish I knew...
- Gender
Re: Mage: the Ascension
That would generate a LOT of Paradox real quick (Vulgar effects, with witnesses?)
The Mage's true strength lies in how subtle he can be. For example, a simple Prime 2 rote to charge a weapon with pure quintessence to make it do Aggrivated damage rather than Lethal is quite deadly, and coincidental. After all, it doesn't make the weapon look any different, it just makes it affect supernatural critters like normal people. It would look stranger for the funny looking goth dude to NOT be affected by the sword.
At high levels, assuming you have sufficent Quintessence to handle Paradox (blow Quintessence to negate Paradox), you can LITERALLY turn a Vampire (which is dead, and so uses Matter not Life) into a Toaster. Without allowing any kind of a saving throw on the Vamp's part. Just make a sufficently difficult roll (something like an 8 or 9 for this), and you've done it.
There are *SO* many devistating things you can do with Coincidental magics, if you stop thinking D&D and start thinking Grey Mouser. Fireballs are Vulgar (unless you have a tube sticking out of your sleeve and a backpack to simulate a flamethrower, in which case it is coincidental), most Mind stuff is not. So, simply plant a suicide impulse in your target. Coincidental effect. You had absolutely nothing to do with it, he just felt like eating his gun. Not your problem, not your fault, right?
Basically, the power of the Mage is directly proportional to the leniency of the Storyteller. They can be anything from not-so-minor dieties to sub-par humans, depending on how the Storyteller runs Paradox.SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us
My homebrew world in progress: Falcora
-
2008-03-22, 10:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- Gender
Re: Mage: the Ascension
At what point did Paradox stop being fun? :P
-
2008-03-22, 10:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Gender
Re: Mage: the Ascension
Why bother with that? There was a published rote (think it was Book of Shadows, but it's been 10 years so it might have been some where else) where all you needed was a 3 in I think matter, 2 prime, 1 spirit 2 life that would turn ANY supernatural being into a mundane. "Vampires don't exist." *BANG*
Down goes an Antediluvian.
I loved the concept of that game, but characters were so stupidly powerful there really wasn't anything to challenge them with, kinda like Dr. Strange. Yeah, go get some old Defenders and Dr. Strange comics, borrow heavily.
There are *SO* many devistating things you can do with Coincidental magics, if you stop thinking D&D and start thinking Grey Mouser. Fireballs are Vulgar (unless you have a tube sticking out of your sleeve and a backpack to simulate a flamethrower, in which case it is coincidental), most Mind stuff is not. So, simply plant a suicide impulse in your target. Coincidental effect. You had absolutely nothing to do with it, he just felt like eating his gun. Not your problem, not your fault, right?
Almost as much fun as the Glasswalker laser tag fetish with a helos spirit bound to it to make a sun gun. Course, a mage could do that too, with only a three in spirit.
-
2008-03-22, 11:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Mage: the Ascension
Paradox is one of those things that vary wildly from GM to GM. While you don't have to decide on every nuance now, have some clear consistent guidelines for yourself for deciding on what's vulgar and not.
Where do Urban Legends fall into it? I mean a lot of people think mountain dew, hydrogen peroxide, and baking soda makes light. or derail a train with a penny.
How many people have to believe? Could a spammer do it? Could a short spot on TV do it? Why wasn't a perpetual motion machine invented yet? Or cold fusion when everyone thought so? What about Pitdown Man? You can get away with the Technoarchy have more "say" but now it's "everyone is equal but some on more equal than others." How is this decided?
You'll likely run into this sort of thing if your players are creative and want to push boundaries. You can brownbeat them away from this, but then what's the point of playing Mage if you can't mess with reality?
The other issue to think about is "why go on adventures?" What does a mage get out of it? Why not avoid trouble and rest easy with your powers (hey $500 lotto ticket, Donald Trump giving big tips,, an easy job (hey I got an interview that's totally possible!), or stupid lawsuit)? Will every adventure be some variation of "NPC kicks in your door and wants to kill you for XP?" Unlike say D&D, there isn't a natural drive for adventuring. PCs can have them, but make sure they do. They shouldn't have to take plot hooks just 'cause they are the PCs.Last edited by HidaTsuzua; 2008-03-22 at 11:05 PM.
-
2008-03-23, 01:27 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2005
- Location
Re: Mage: the Ascension
Yay mage! I haven't GMed Mage in years, but it's still one of my favorite games and also so incredibly frustrating to run.
The fruits of my experience:
1. Actively collaborate with your players. Mage is about characters who can shape reality itself, so let them shape some of the reality of the game. Also, collaboration before the game itself actually starts lets your group come up with things to share in common, and narrow down the huuuuuuuuge range of possibilities to a particular set of themes and conflicts to build a game on.
2. Prepare to Improvise. All rpg's have the "the plot is the first casualty of contact with the characters" problem, but Mage even moreso. If you script out your campaign ahead of time, either you'll have to railroad your players in just about the most railroad-unfriendly game in the world, and frustrate them, or you'll kiss all that hard work goodbye. Use your prep time to make a toolbox of interesting monsters, settings, NPC's, etc, and throw them into the chaos whenever they seem to fit.
3. Struggle of Wills. the underlying mechanic of Mage is that reality is being shaped by the effort of mages (and others, to a lesser extent) so engage the characters in a strategic game of will-working. Whatever they concentrate on, that area of their lives should generally go their way, but they'll lose ground on all the fronts where they're not paying attention. Reward stubbornness and clarity of vision, and when their motivations get muddied or conflicts arise within the group, make the setting and the results of their magic reflect the lack of focus.
4. Lots of Adversaries, No Real Villain. Make a whole bunch of NPC's who have clear agendas of their own, and can challenge or even defeat the characters within their own sphere of influence. At least one Sleeper bureaucratic organization, at least one technocratic order, at least one rival within the traditions, at least one supernatural schemer (perhaps a Changeling Noble, perhaps a meddling Umbrood Lord, even an elder vampire), and at least one misguided mortal who's trying to do the right thing, but getting in the players' way in some sort of significant or public way. They should all be reasonable, sympathetic characters. Marauders and Nephandi can be used for this, but you have to be really careful to avoid making them psycho killers or moustache-twirling eeeeevil types. Remember to take into account how these various movers and shakers will interact with each other, instead of just the characters.
Have fun! Mage can be a really great game, just come at it with the attitude of idealism and wonder and don't sweat the details. Good luck!
-
2008-03-23, 03:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
Re: Mage: the Ascension
Be careful how generous you are with XP. Once Mage's hit a certain point of awesomeness in an arcana, the can wreak havok, paradox be damned. It's been a while since I looked at the last edition of Mage, but I think that point was 4 dots.
-
2008-03-23, 06:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: Mage: the Ascension
Well, I can't give specifics, but I can describe a bit as to how I run Mage stuff.
-Firstly, being a Mage isn't about "I turn it into a chicken!" and bam it happens. Being a Mage is about a character having a worldview which, entirely logically, allows exceptional things to happen. Magic isn't just unassociated things happening, but an alternative set of physical laws.
Every mage has their own set of rules, intricately associated with their character.
As such, a big theme in Mage to explore is the nature of reality itself - every Mage has their own version of it, and they're all competing, trying to convince everyone around them to some degree or another that theirs is in fact correct. This exploration, of course, is likely to lead to the Technocracy as the major antagonist - the technocrats, after all, are the custodians of the static, majority opinion on reality, and they don't take kindly to sufficiently large disturbances of the status quo.
I also run Paradox strongly (and slightly sadistically) - reality itself makes for a strong and not-entirely-static opponent for a Mage. The expenditure of Paradox makes for the opportunity for karmic, and poetically awesome backfiring of magic - when the universe not only harmfully backlashes against a mage but modifies reality, often even retroactively, to remove that much more magic from the universe.
Example: You have a character who has an effect, a static mind effect, which allows him to focus himself in combat and fight with greater effect. When Paradox expends itself, the individual can suddenly feel the lingering effects of what he's been doing - perhaps he'll strain something - or perhaps he'll have a significant heart problem. Or, in the _extreme_ case (yes, more extreme than the heart problem), it'll turn out that the "vitamins" that the mage character's been taking every day to stay healthy were in fact steroids, and he'd deluded himself otherwise - now he's starting to suffer long-term effects from having taken the drugs. While static effects don't usually generate paradox, they aren't necessarily immune to Paradox once it's been accumulated.
-
2008-03-24, 10:11 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- Virginia
- Gender
Re: Mage: the Ascension
Just as an aside, mages cannot do everything. For example, they cannot remove the vampiric condition permenantly. It reasserts itself after 24 hours. I'm afb right now, so I can't tell you which book that is from. However, they quote from it runs something like "Vampirism is a curse from God. You can try to remove it, but it requires a contested roll. Can you roll more successes than God?"
-
2008-03-24, 10:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Gender
Re: Mage: the Ascension
A lot of good ideas, all of which I'll definitely consider when I start the game.
I have a few basic ideas in mind, but before I set anything in stone, I'll be talking to the other players while they're making their characters. One person said he'd just make the character on his own if he got specifics, but I told him I'd rather make characters face-to-face.
So far, the only character made is a Verbena antique shop owner. Two others are making I think a Dreamspeaker and a Son of Ether. I'll probably keep it just Mage with the Technocracy as the main "enemy," but I might also throw in some Changelings, since I'm actually familiar with them. I can't say the same for the vampires, werewolves, and wraiths however.
I have one really big question: Exactly how do you go about writing up the "bad guys?" Is there a specific process for this? Or do I just kind of wing their health levels and powers?
-
2008-03-24, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: Mage: the Ascension
Well, the Technocracy is the extreme of technomagic. If the Sons of Ether are steampunk, and the Virtual Adepts are cyberpunk, the Technocracy is Star Trek.
The Technocracy has nine different disciplines just like the traditions, and every super-tech you can imagine is encapsulated in them. Rather than reading oracles and divination, they run psychohistorical calculations. Rather than slipping through the timestream in their chrono-jaunter, they bounce tachyons off the deflector dish to create a time vortex.
Anything a Mage can do, a Technocrat can do, and often with less paradox - because hypertech is the form of magic sleepers find most believable. Technocrats even have the ability to actively reduce paradox generated by sleepers, by giving a technobabble explanation to individuals present.
This isn't to say paradox doesn't hit technocrats, but it doesn't hit them as severely - Paradox manifests more in simple malfunctions than in catastrophic rewrites of reality... usually.
And changeling is probably a good addition to a Mage game - the Fae are attracted to the highly-glamourous Mages, and are repulsed by the cold stasis of the Technocracy. This makes fae both potential enemies or allies for a Mage.
-
2008-03-25, 10:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: Mage: the Ascension
On Topic:
IME, the big thing is what sort of game you want to run. The more you apply the modifiers and paradox generation for your players for vulgar magic, the less "BANG-POW-It's Dead" type magic you see. Pay careful attention to the discussion of coincidental vs. vulgar in your sourcebooks. Games that will often be set in places with Sleeper witnesses present, for example, will tend to be more subtle and social and have fewer fireballs and less flashy technomagic.
Slightly off topic:
Are the new editions of White Wolf's games (Vampire/Mage/Werewolf/etc) more than just a shift in fluff? Are there smoother mechanics to go with them, or is it still more of a question of which setting you prefer to base your campaign on?
I'm interested in the settings, but the (relatively) recent conversion appears to have left only a few parts behind that are immediately recognizable to me. Are there gameplay advantages (easier to adjudicate, for example) to compensate for having to work around the shift in the setting?
-
2008-03-25, 10:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- Gender
Re: Mage: the Ascension
Slightly off topic:
Are the new editions of White Wolf's games (Vampire/Mage/Werewolf/etc) more than just a shift in fluff? Are there smoother mechanics to go with them, or is it still more of a question of which setting you prefer to base your campaign on?
I'm interested in the settings, but the (relatively) recent conversion appears to have left only a few parts behind that are immediately recognizable to me. Are there gameplay advantages (easier to adjudicate, for example) to compensate for having to work around the shift in the setting?Last edited by Rutee; 2008-03-25 at 10:42 AM.
-
2008-03-25, 11:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
-
2008-03-25, 11:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Gender
Re: Mage: the Ascension
IIRC in the Iteneration X splat, there was a banned sphere they didn't acknowledge, I think it was spirit. It was supposed to be why they were "so cold".
It's nice going up against Technocracy once in a while. Then you get to loot their Pellium bullets. It saves you from having to worry about getting paradox to generate aggravated damage. Then you can spend it for "Nope, it wasn't me officer. There was that guy on the grassy knoll over there."
-
2008-03-25, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- Virginia
- Gender
-
2008-03-25, 02:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
- Location
- Århus, Denmark
- Gender
Re: Mage: the Ascension
Mage is easily the easiest of the three major splats to convert to the old fluff. The rules are quite similar, just significantly clarified and streamlined to be easier to use. Vampire is probably the hardest, primarily due to the fact that a lot of highly iconic disciplines hasn't been carried over to nWoD. Just as a few examples there is no obtenebration, dementation or vicissitude in VtR and the rules are sufficiently different that you cannot just port the old disciplines as is. Werewolf is either next to impossible or really simple, depending on how iconic you find such concepts as magical power being contingent on social status or different breeds getting different abilities.
In general, however, the crunch changes have focused on simplification and clarity of the rules. The most obvious being the fact that there are rules for how different kinds of supernaturals interact, which actually exists now. The streamlining of combat is also quite significant. In general i find both the fluff and crunch changes to be quite positive and making for a better, more playable game, but i am sure that a lot of people will disagree with me on this.
The most significant crunch change is of course the wholesale removal of mountains upon mountains of extras added by sourcebooks, something that obviously affects vampire the most.
-
2008-03-25, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Gender
Re: Mage: the Ascension
Well, unfortunately, I've no interest nor reason in buying new books nor learning new rules that most people I know who've played it claimed sucked anyway, so no, no nWoD for me.
Okay, so far, unless someone drops out, I have a Verbena, a Euthanatos, a Dreamspeaker, and I think a Son of Ether. The Verbena is the only one I've talked to about background and such.
What I'm thinking so far is have the characters live in a small city, run mostly by mom&pop stores, small businesses, family-owned restaurants, the like. The Mages are part of a historical society, which is basically a cover for their cabal. The small city lies on a very potent node which the mages have been assigned by their respective traditions and such, and otherwise live pretty basic, quiet lives, the only real "threat" being local changelings that the mages actually have diplomatic ties to... So everything's going nice and smooth for now...
That is, until the big, corporate MegaMart decides to open up a store in town, and it won't take long that the MegaMart is simply one of many fronts for the Technocracy, who are after the large node the city sits on.
How does this sound so far? Too railroad-ey?
-
2008-03-25, 07:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: Mage: the Ascension
What about some magical 'node' would interest a scientist, I ask?
The Technocracy does not do things without a solid, scientific justification - after all, the justification is what gets the funding. :P
-
2008-03-25, 07:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Gender
Re: Mage: the Ascension
Well, you might could have Garou pop up once in a while in that situation as well, more for complication purposes, rather than antagonists. Wal Mart comes to town, eh? That could work. The Syndicate is an interesting one to be facing off against. Good luck at that!
-
2008-03-25, 07:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- Gender
Re: Mage: the Ascension
No, it just didn't have the guts to say Belief affects reality. It works similarly but, yes, better.
And yeah, that sounds like a potential start, if the Technocracy doesn't become the sole focus of the story. Personally I like the idea of letting the Magi's goals become the focus, but that's just me.
-
2008-03-27, 10:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: Mage: the Ascension
Well, since you asked...
It actually turns out that the surface area comprising "the node" actually receives a significantly larger concentration of cosmic radiation in the beta-9 and gamma-12 spectra* than would be normal or expected, and it appears to do so without the usual side effects that should be caused by the higher than usual concentration. They're trying to figure out why, as well as to harness the possibilities to further their "scientific" research.
In essence, they're not interested in the node as a "node". Instead it's a hotspot of deviant lifeforms, strange energy reactions, and other "unexplained" phenomenon that must be catagorized, understood, and controlled, or else eliminated as an intolerable deviation from their sanctioned reality.
*: There are no such things as "cosmic radiations in the Beta-9 and Gamma-12 spectra". That's a foozle - fluff that can be changed based on which branch of the Technocracy, phase of the moon, or DM whim. Digging too closely into the scientific rationale for things in Mage is sorta pointless, since actually finding a scientific explanation that means anything shouldn't be the /players/ first goal anyway. The real rationale is that "It's Magic", but the Technocracy doesn't call it that and the players already know.