Level 1 Warblade Stances

[SamTheCleric]

What do you think is the best choice of a first level stance as a warblade and why?

Further, what would be a good choice to take knowing you're going for Jade Phoenix Mage?

[playswithfire]

In general, I'm not sure. I'd probably pick Blood in the Water because I like the tiger claw discipline and I'd pick up some kukris to go with it.

For JPM, I'd probably pick bolstering voice if you're going to focus on casting rather than fighting, since the melee-oriented stances won't do much for you

[tyckspoon]

Dealing damage: Punishing Stance (recommended use at lower levels only) for an extra d6 while it still counts.
General utility: Hunter's Sense for the Scent special ability.
Preparing for a future build: Blood In The Water. Not so useful when you first get it, but it can stack up quickly once you can improve your crit range and start gaining extra attacks.

Bolstering Voice isn't bad if your party is lacking in Will saves. I'd probably recommend Hunter's Sense for having the most potential to be immediately useful and remain useful.

[Zincorium]

At level 1? My choice would be punishing stance, it hurts your AC a bit, but the extra die of damage is useful at that point.

Blood in the water is a cool combo maker... but unless you're dual wielding kukris or something similar, it doesn't get much mileage. Leading the charge can get pretty good at later levels, but the +1 just isn't too impressive right now, even if it does apply to multiple people.

If you're going into JPM? It doesn't matter. At least not once you get 2nd level in the prc. Mystic pheonix stance looks pretty mediocre at first, but that DR/Evil might as well by DR/- for all that your enemies are going to be penetrating it at that point, and it lasts as long as you have the stance up... which last I checked, can be all day. Name a spell that will do that for you. The caster level increase also nicely offsets the loss of spellcaster levels. Either way, it's better than any of the stances you'll have going into it.

[Proven_Paradox]

For first level, I think Punishing Stance is a trap. If you're using a two-handed weapon or two weapons, the AC loss leaves you particularly vulnerable at low levels, where a lucky strike can end you in one hit. AC stops mattering as you go into higher levels, but a low level, it's the main thing between you and a one (okay, you're a warblade, so two, but still) hit kill. If you're using a sword and shield, the AC loss and damage increase seems about equal, so I'd just skip it, and get another stance with a greatsword. At higher levels, the stance's bonus can help with TWF, but by then you've probably got better options.

Blood in the Water is a viable choice. As mentioned already, it stays viable longer, though it's best if you're going with TWF; more attacks means more crit chances.

Leading the Charge isn't so impressive now, but among first level stances, this one is the best for remaining useful in combat into higher levels in my opinion. +10 damage on charges (which will then be multiplied, LOL UBERCHARGER) on multiple allies is pretty huge for that first round charge. You'll want to swap out for a better stance once you've closed in, but for that first charge? This is nice.

Bolstering Voice can be useful if you've got a lot of low will save allies or expect to be fighting a lot of foes that drop will save effects.

Hunter's Sense is as useful as your DM lets it be. Ask him/her about that first, but among low level stances, the out of combat applications of this one are potentially unmatched.

[SamTheCleric]

Just so you know, I'm actually starting at level 11... so I'm just kind starting at the bottom floor and working up. I'll be Wizard 4/Warblade 2/JPM 5.

[Stycotl]

every time i see samthecleric, i think i am seeing samneric from lord of the flies. just thought i'd let you know.

if we're not talking swordsage disciplines, i like blood in the water and hunter's sense the most for 1st level. but i have not really paid attention to it from an arcane caster's point of view.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

It's a crying shame Shadow Hand isn't a Warblade discipline, Island of Blades is extremely useful for a 'tank' to pick up. I'd even almost say it's worth picking up a feat to get it, if there wasn't the feat Clarion Call, which lets you make a DC 20 Intimidate check to declare an opponent flat-footed. To my knowledge, this also bypasses the Improved Uncanny Dodge ability, as you're not trying to flank him, you're simply declaring him flanked.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Stonefoot Stance. +2 AC vs things larger than you is good early game, but less so later on. Otherwise, go with Leading the Charge. +10 damage to charges is a good thing, particularly if you pick up Power Attack and Shock Trooper to do stupid things in a charge.

Also, I might suggest Abjurant Champion when you get done with JPM. While it isn't an initiator, it is full BAB and casting, and can let you pop off a Shield spell auto-quickened for +9 to AC.

[Nebo_]

Blood in the Water, definitely. Last session in one full attack, the dervish in my party got to +17 in attack and damage from that stance. He had +25 or so by the end of the encounter.

[Zincorium]

Just out of curiosity, are people really getting all the crits needed to make blood in the water useful? I mean, you only get a bonus if you confirm the crit, and you generally have to do this each battle, since fights rarely occur within a minute of each other.

I can see it happening, but not reliably. Does it actually work all the time?

[Nebo_]

I've seen it happen. When a Dervish with a 15-20 weapon and an 11-20 weapon uses a Thousand Cuts, the critical hits really stack up. You need a lot of attacks for it to be viable. A two handed weapon will not do. I'm talking about haste, two weapon fighting, raging mongoose and every other attack you can possibly squeeze out.

[Bryn]

an 11-20 weapon

How are they managing that? I didn't think it was possible to get such a large crit range - are they stacking Keen and Improved Critical?

[Nebo_]

How are they managing that? I didn't think it was possible to get such a large crit range - are they stacking Keen and Improved Critical?

The weapon in question was a minor artifact.

[SamTheCleric]

Also, I might suggest Abjurant Champion when you get done with JPM. While it isn't an initiator, it is full BAB and casting, and can let you pop off a Shield spell auto-quickened for +9 to AC.

Yeah, the build is gonna be Wizard 5/Warblade 1/JPM 10/Abjurant Champion 4 :)

[Bryn]

Nebo_: Ah, I suppose that's fair enough then

Regarding the original subject, I'd probably go with Punishing Stance for a level one Warblade, and hopefully destroy the enemies before they can take advantage of my low AC. The others don't seem to give particularly large bonuses at level 1, although many would get more useful later on.

Edit: Looks like I missed the bit about starting at higher level. Might you be able to get higher level stances with the increased half-per-level initiator level from the other levels?

[Eldariel]

I use Punishing Stance a lot, but only in TWF builds. I even use it on later levels; 1d6 isn't that impressive but with iteratives, it starts to add up quickly. Of course, if you quality, Blood in Water is the way to go. When up against few level higher opponents, Punishing Stance is a great way to try and drop them before the level gap catches up on you. Also, it's one of the best tools against DR early on (aside from Stone Dragon DR-ignoring strikes). But yea, Blood in the Water or Punishing Stance (both great for TWFers, former mostly for Dervishes later on though; both have different applications). As an added benefit, Punishing Stance allows for level 9 Warblade 1-dip for Iron Heart Surge and WRT.

EDIT: First level Stance is always first level regardless of Initiator Level. Same applies to Swordsage and Crusader.

[SamTheCleric]

Thanks for all the input guys. I'm still new at this whole tome of battle stuff... but I want to get around to playing a martial character before we switch to 4th.

[Zincorium]

@Z-axis:

Yeah, actually, at the level he's starting he has an initiator level of 9 and gets a new stance from JPM. He could take a 5th level stance... except there aren't any 5th level stances for the two disciplines he can choose it from.

Nor are there any 4th level stances he can take. I have a real issue with tome of battle in regards to this, there are several levels where a normal character would get a stance but there aren't any available. And you can't swap it out later. Very irritating.

We're down to 3rd level before there are even any on the lists for him to choose from, and he gets a choice of holocaust cloak or thicket of blades. Thicket of blades is nice if you're in a battlefield control build, but it's very situational. Holocaust cloak is good, because you'll probably be in melee combat a lot and maybe it'll convince your opponent to stop messing with you after it takes a bunch of fire damage.


However, considering that you get mystic pheonix for free, I'd just use that.

[SamTheCleric]

However, considering that you get mystic pheonix for free, I'd just use that.

That's what I'll be in most of the time... I just wanted some options, for utility purpose.

Stances: Flame's Blessing (14 ranks of tumble is a free 20 fire resistance), Either Hunter's Sense or Surefoot Stance (I think)
Manuevers: Vanguard Strike, Revitalizing Strike, Divine Surge, Moment of Perfect Mind, Emerald Razor, Stone Vise