Goliath Greathammer?

[metalbear]

I recently bought the Races of Stone and was wondering if the Goliath Greathammer would be worth the exotic weapon feat? It seems like it would be a powerful weapon with 3d6 worth of damage and a X4 critical damage multiplier, but I'm not sure.

[Dode]

..3d6? what?

[Talya]

..3d6? what?

It's large.

With the Goliath's amazing strength and ability to power attack, I have to think that unless you have feats to burn, use a scythe for the same effect. At higher levels the extra bit of weapon damage won't matter so much.

[Ascension]

Note that's for the LARGE goliath greathammer. This should be obvious, since the hammer is intended for goliaths, but if you're a medium creature just looking for a powerful weapon, it's not for you.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Goliaths can strut around with weapons of unusual size , ie the large greathammer of 3d6 x 4 doom. I found it was so very much worth it. One of my players set the group record by one shotting a giant were-boar with it.

Edit: Accursed shinobi!

[Kyeudo]

If you want better, use the Greathammer stats from MM5. It has a 19-20/x4 crit instead of just x4, but is otherwise identical.

[Talya]

if you're a medium creature just looking for a powerful weapon, it's not for you.

There is a medium version of the goliath warhammer. It's 1d12, X4, which is still nice. I just don't think it's a huge improvement over a 2d4scythe if you want a x4 crit multiplier. And the scythe can also make trip attacks, as a bonus.

[Talya]

If you want better, use the Greathammer stats from MM5. It has a 19-20/x4 crit instead of just x4, but is otherwise identical.

That'd be worthwhile. I'd also disallow it, merely on the principle of it being far better than every other exotic weapon in the game. :)

[Kyeudo]

That'd be worthwhile. I'd also disallow it, merely on the principle of it being far better than every other exotic weapon in the game. :)

Two Words: Spiked Chain.

[Talya]

Two Words: Spiked Chain.

Spiked Chain pays for it's versatility through crappy 20/x2 crit, and a mediocre 2d4 damage. It's not enough to pay, because they overvalue the damage dice of a weapon, but it's certainly in line with all the other weapons.

(Other reach weapons do not require an exotic feat, so they don't allow adjacent attacks, either.)

[metalbear]

I was thinking about playing a goliath character, and the great hammer seemed like an interesting option. I am pretty sure my DM would disallow it unless I could make a decent argument for it not being complete cheese. Any suggestions on how I could argue it?

[Talya]

I was thinking about playing a goliath character, and the great hammer seemed like an interesting option. I am pretty sure my DM would disallow it unless I could make a decent argument for it not being complete cheese. Any suggestions on how I could argue it?

It pays for its crit damage by an exotic feat.

Compare it to the large martial weapons it would replace:
Greatsword 3d6, 19-20/x2
Greataxe 3d6 20/x3

Now, since you need to take a feat to use the goliath greathammer, what's going to differentiate it from the two above? What are you taking the feat for?

It should be easy to convince a DM that moving up from a x3 to a x4 crit multiplier is not an unreasonable balance option. (Especially as it's not mechanically a good choice unless you're playing a fighter with a pile of bonus feats available.)

[SadisticFishing]

That hammer is MM3, Greathorn Greathammer, and has been errata'd to be x4, no 19-20. If you read something and go "what the CRAP!?", chances are, someone fixed it. Unless it's a spell.

[metalbear]

It pays for its crit damage by an exotic feat.

Compare it to the large martial weapons it would replace:
Greatsword 3d6, 19-20/x2
Greataxe 3d6 20/x3

Now, since you need to take a feat to use the goliath greathammer, what's going to differentiate it from the two above? What are you taking the feat for?

It should be easy to convince a DM that moving up from a x3 to a x4 crit multiplier is not an unreasonable balance option. (Especially as it's not mechanically a good choice unless you're playing a fighter with a pile of bonus feats available.)

Thanks for the advice, I hope he'll let me play it then. I chose the great hammer mostly for the character flavor. A tall and powerful goliath smashing his foes into a paste with power attacks, weapon specialization, and eventually improved critical. It just seems really BA to me.

[Talya]

Thanks for the advice, I hope he'll let me play it then. I chose the great hammer mostly for the character flavor. A tall and powerful goliath smashing his foes into a paste with power attacks, weapon specialization, and eventually improved critical. It just seems really BA to me.

If you're going for Goliath flavor, check out the Goliath-Barbarian substitution levels on page 150 (I think) of that book. Very neat options. It's favored for them, so a barbarian/fighter multiclass works fine.

[Chronos]

Look at it this way: You could spend a feat on proficiency with the Greathammer, and get 3d6, 20/x4, or you could spend a feat on Improved Critical with an axe, and get 3d6, 19-20/x3. 19-20/x3 is, on average, as good as 20/x5 (and more consistent, which is good), and he'd almost certainly allow Improved Critical.

[The_Snark]

That hammer is MM3, Greathorn Greathammer, and has been errata'd to be x4, no 19-20. If you read something and go "what the CRAP!?", chances are, someone fixed it. Unless it's a spell.

It's from Monster Manual IV, actually, and no it has not been errata'ed, not that I'm aware of; there isn't any errata for that book. If you have a source for the fix, I'd be interested to know.

It doesn't actually strike me as being all that overpowered; sure, it's better than almost every other exotic weapon (with the possible exception of the spiked chain, which serves a specialized purpose), but almost every other exotic weapon isn't worth bothering with. A 17-20/x4 threat range is certainly frightening, but you're spending two feats (the proficiency and Improved Critical) to get it, and then you have the same problem that every exotic weapon user has—they won't find many magic weapons they can use.

[Animefunkmaster]

Spiked Chain pays for it's versatility through crappy 20/x2 crit, and a mediocre 2d4 damage.

I think if people where using a spiked chain it would be for threatening adjacent squares and up to your reach... not to mention a two handed weapon that can be finessed.

For straight reach the whip dagger wins for exotic weapons 15' reach for medium, and you threaten that square unlike other whips. Otherwise I have always found garotes to be pretty deadly for exotic weapons and of coarse the braid blade wins for sheer power.

[Jastermereel]

If I remember right, doesn't the Goliath Greathammer also have a bonus to Sunder? I was eying it a while back for a Goliath Barbarian build angled towards sundering. I think it had a +2 bonus which helped contribute to an overkill sunder bonus (+2 Goliath Greathammer, +4 for Powerful Build, +4 for it being a two handed weapon, and +4 for Improved Sunder = +14) and when combined the 3d6 + 1.5xSTR damage (which on that build came out to an average of ~23.5 while raging) seemed like it would be delightful for taking out opponents' weapons quickly, if not in one shot.

[BadJuJu]

If youre a strait fighter, why not? You do have feats to burn, so it couldnt hurt too much. If you arent a fighter, I would go w/ a greatsword.

[SilverClawShift]

There is a medium version of the goliath warhammer. It's 1d12, X4, which is still nice. I just don't think it's a huge improvement over a 2d4scythe if you want a x4 crit multiplier. And the scythe can also make trip attacks, as a bonus.

It's not a huge deal, but it's worth mentioning that the hammer deals bludgeoning damage instead of slashing. Maybe our encounters are biased, but it seems we've fought a lot more things that resist slashing damage, than bludgeoning.

Not a deal-breaker, just a little point for the hammer.

[Roderick_BR]

If you want better, use the Greathammer stats from MM5. It has a 19-20/x4 crit instead of just x4, but is otherwise identical.

And is a typo that was never errata'ed. I read somewhere (need to find where) that no weapon should both give a big critical threat range AND a big damage multiplier in it's base status, save firearms.

As for it being useful, it gives a +2 bonus to sunderings attempts, if you are interested. Grab an adamand one, and break things open.

Edit:

It's not a huge deal, but it's worth mentioning that the hammer deals bludgeoning damage instead of slashing. Maybe our encounters are biased, but it seems we've fought a lot more things that resist slashing damage, than bludgeoning.

Not a deal-breaker, just a little point for the hammer.

Ever noticed how bludgeoning weapons are always nerfed? The SRD/PHB1 doesn't have stats for a 1-handed weapon that deals 1d10 points of damage as an exotic bludgeoning weapon (came later in Forgotten Realms), nor a martial two-handed bludgeoning weapon with a good damage. The heavy flail is 2-handed and deails only 1d10 points of damage, while the great sword and great axe deals 2d6 and 1d12 respectively.

[Idea Man]

Whatever you do, don't take the flaw that makes all your equipment count for twice as much for determining encumbance (Free Spirit, I think). Had a player do that with his goliath, and he can barely lug around his weapon, much less anything else. As "approprite" (as he likes to call it) as the flaw is in flavor with his race, it's a horrendous penalty, especially when your favored weapon is double weight from being large, and 25 lbs(?) to start!

Boy, we ragged on him for that. Still do.

[Admiral Squish]

If I remember right, doesn't the Goliath Greathammer also have a bonus to Sunder? I was eying it a while back for a Goliath Barbarian build angled towards sundering. I think it had a +2 bonus which helped contribute to an overkill sunder bonus (+2 Goliath Greathammer, +4 for Powerful Build, +4 for it being a two handed weapon, and +4 for Improved Sunder = +14) and when combined the 3d6 + 1.5xSTR damage (which on that build came out to an average of ~23.5 while raging) seemed like it would be delightful for taking out opponents' weapons quickly, if not in one shot.

Don't forget making it adamantine. Ignore hardness under 20? Yes, please!

[Smiley_]

Ever noticed how bludgeoning weapons are always nerfed? The SRD/PHB1 doesn't have stats for a 1-handed weapon that deals 1d10 points of damage as an exotic bludgeoning weapon (came later in Forgotten Realms), nor a martial two-handed bludgeoning weapon with a good damage. The heavy flail is 2-handed and deails only 1d10 points of damage, while the great sword and great axe deals 2d6 and 1d12 respectively.

Odd, isn't it? However, the heavy flail (19-20/x2) 1d10 does have something the greatsword doesn't a +2 to disarm attempts and it can be used for trip attacks. (as opposed to any other weapon that has to choose on or the otherm spiked chain as the exception with a crappy crit range and modifier.)

Maces, on the other hand, are simple weapons. It is essentially a glorified club. They can compete with swords and axes for damage, but they do not have better crit damage or crit range.

Now, the great-club is a silly weapon that nobody will use unless given no other choice. It is essentially a big wooden stick, but why is it a martial weapon? it is out done by the humble heavy flail in every aspect.

I duuno. It's wierd

[RandomLunatic]

Complete Warrior also has a 'Hand-and-a-Half Hammer', the Maul.

A for the Goliath Greathammer, like most exotic weapons, it is really a waste of a feat. Sunder is generally a poor choice of moves, as this entails breaking your own treasure. And, if you are a Goliath, a quad-damage critical is most likely overkill-a Greataxe's x3 crits will probably suffice, especally since you are equally likely to get the crit when the target is at full health as when he is barely standing at 1.

[Person_Man]

No.

In general, you should avoid spending feats to gain minor static bonuses. Focus on scaled bonuses (Power Attack, anything that multiplies, anything that grants extra attacks), or on gaining special abilities that you can't more efficiently with magic items, spells, or class abilities.

[Jastermereel]

In general, you should avoid spending feats to gain minor static bonuses. Focus on scaled bonuses (Power Attack, anything that multiplies, anything that grants extra attacks), or on gaining special abilities that you can't more efficiently with magic items, spells, or class abilities.

When trying to optimize the stats you're probably right, but some times it might be worth it to spend one to develop the character. There are plenty of weapons that people can use that aren't optimized, but help for a concept. A Goliath using a racially associated weapon makes character sense. It's just a pity that Races of Stone's writers didn't see fit to do for Goliaths and the Goliath Greathammer what the PHB did for Gnomes and the Gnome Hooked Hammer and let that race use the weapon for free.

[Stycotl]

When trying to optimize the stats you're probably right, but some times it might be worth it to spend one to develop the character. There are plenty of weapons that people can use that aren't optimized, but help for a concept. A Goliath using a racially associated weapon makes character sense. It's just a pity that Races of Stone's writers didn't see fit to do for Goliaths and the Goliath Greathammer what the PHB did for Gnomes and the Gnome Hooked Hammer and let that race use the weapon for free.

houserule it. gets rid of that 'racial weapon' feat, whatever it was called. makes sense too.