Wizard/Rogue Gish PrC?

[MisterSaturnine]

I'm trying to make a roguish Wizard character who remains at least rogue-like without losing too many caster levels because, at heart, he's a rogue. Unfortunately, I can't really find any good PrCs for a Wizard/Rogue gish. The game is starting at level 3, but I'd like to plan ahead, and am probably starting Rogue 1/Wizard 2. The allowed base classes are Wizard, Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin, Cleric, and Rogue. If Beguiler was allowed, I definitely go with that, but I'm pretty sure the DM won't allow it (not because it's overpowered, but because it doesn't fit in the world, in which magic is an exact science).

[Jimp]

Unseen Seer (Complete Mage) and Arcane Trickster (DMG) are solid choices.

[Ascension]

Complete Adventurer has Daggerspell Mage, which will lose you two spellcasting levels (one for a rogue multiclass, one for the first level of the PrC), but I don't think it's bad at all. You get almost complete spellcasting progression, some sneak attack progression, and the ability to deliver various touch spells through daggers in a few different ways. More optimization crazy people, though, will tell you it's lunacy.

Complete Scoundrel has Spellwarp Sniper, which only loses you one caster level in the long run, and is good if you're a ray specialist.

Those are your two best options, near as I can tell. If you're melee, go with Daggerspell Mage, if you're ranged, go with Spellwarp Sniper.

[Keld Denar]

Yea, what Jimp said. The primary 2 are Arcane Trickster and the Unseen Seer (CMage). USS is generally considered to be better, because it gives more skill points and some other notable class features. AT pretty much just advances SA and CL, giving only minor class features such as the ability to disable devices at a distance with magehand and to make impromptu spell sneak attacks.

The 3rd rogueish PrC that is kind of different from the others is the Spellwarped Sniper (CScoundrel). It adds a different dynamic to the rogue/wiz game, allowing you to convert all those moderatly crappy area spells with reflex saves into awesome rays of death with no save. Its a little less on the rogueing and actually plays rather like a warlock on steroids.

Go read the section in Complete Arcane concerning "Weaponlike Spells". It talks about spell with attack rolls, and their application with sneak attack and critical hits. This'll give you a bit more info on how to design an arcane rogue type character.

What kind of concept are you looking at? Let us know, and we can help you plan out your class levels and feats and spells, and maybe even give suggestions toward gear.

[MisterSaturnine]

The concept is a Wizard who's more charismatic than intelligent. He's still quite smart, but it's his silver tongue that gets him most of what he wants, especially when it's augmented by magic. He's a consummate liar, and is not in anyway what he seems--even his identity is false. He's not the most powerful of wizards, but likes to pretend that he is. I looked at Arcane Trickster, but I'd like to PrC a little earlier, and it looks like you need to be at least 8th level to get into it (Rogue 3/Wizard 5). Plus, it doesn't seem to offer that much. I'll look into Unseen Seer and Daggerspell Mage, but I don't have Complete Mage or Adventurer. Are either on the internet somewhere?

[Keld Denar]

Most common entrys into USS are Rog1/Wiz4 or Rog1/Wiz5. The 2nd takes into account whether or not you want the Spontaneous Divination ACF thats in Comp Champion. If you can get it, you want it. Its that good. The ability to spontaneously convert all of your prepared spells into divination (regardless of spell list!) which includes some VERY nice assassin and ranger spells like Sniper's Shot and Hunter's Eye from Spell Compendium. USS normally gets 2 divinations from any list, so determine how many you want, and if you want more than 2, take Spont Div and fewer USS levels and more AT levels. If you only want 2, then take more USS levels and finish up with AT. I'd recommend getting more spells though.

USS has a few jumping out points as well, by most of which you qualify for Arcane Trickster if that's your goal. This depends on how much of the benis from USS you want based on how much CL you mind losing. Its all a balancing act based on personal preference. Casting is generally thought to be more powerful than SA progression, but thats something for you to decide.

As far as lying and being a general smooth operator, talk to your DM about researching the Glibness spell for wiz/sorc. Its normally bard only, but adding it to your wiz/sorc list shouldn't make that huge of a difference.

Alternatively, play a bard. Bards kick some serious tail of their own. Inquire further for more details.

[MisterSaturnine]

Oh, I love Bards, and would be playing one if it were allowed. Dragonfire Inspiration, all that good stuff.

I'll have to take a look at Daggerspell Mage, but I don't think Unseen Seer would suit him. He's less a Diviner, and more an Enchanter or Illusionist. If the DM allows Beguiler, I'm going for that, and if not, then I'll probably just settle for going for Arcane Trickster, or Daggerspell Mage if I like it when I see it all laid out.

[FinalJustice]

The concept is a Wizard who's more charismatic than intelligent. He's still quite smart, but it's his silver tongue that gets him most of what he wants, especially when it's augmented by magic. He's a consummate liar, and is not in anyway what he seems--even his identity is false. He's not the most powerful of wizards, but likes to pretend that he is. I looked at Arcane Trickster, but I'd like to PrC a little earlier, and it looks like you need to be at least 8th level to get into it (Rogue 3/Wizard 5). Plus, it doesn't seem to offer that much. I'll look into Unseen Seer and Daggerspell Mage, but I don't have Complete Mage or Adventurer. Are either on the internet somewhere?

Except he is a Beguiler. Seriously, instead of PrC-hunting, try to talk to your DM about being a beguiler. The spellcasting is full int based, so it can be easily fluffed as exact science, plus the rest of your character concept just screams Beguiler. It'd be a waste not put an excelent designed class to perfect use because of a crunch detail that can be adjusted with no effort whatsoever. Just fluff that he is a narrow specialist, since he is more charismatic than smart, he's chosen to pick up a narrow field of knowledge and specialize in it to boot. Be calm and reasonable, Beguiler is praised as one of the better designed classes that's out there and it fits perfectly in your concept, I think most of the reasonable DMs would allow it.

[MisterSaturnine]

Except he is a Beguiler.

Yeah, this pretty much sums it up. The more I try to think options, the more this rings true. I might send him a PM explaining your logic. He's a GitPer (it's a PbP game on these boards), and seems to have a creative streak, so he might say yes. Only one way to find out...

[Person_Man]

The standard build is Rogue 1 or 2/Wizard 3 or 4/Unseen Seer 5/Arcane Trickster 10, or something similar to it. Also consider:

Psychic Rogue, Spellthief, Human Paragon, and Chameleon. Each offers its own mix of skills + spells (or psionics).

Though its worth mentioning that anyone with high Int, a good Skill list, and the Able Learner feat will probably work for your purposes. So Factotum 1/Wizard 4/PrC X/PrC Y is something you may wish to consider as well.