Wizard Build Help PHb and PHb II and DMG only

[AnnShadow]

Is there any help out there to make a wizard using only DMG, Player's Handbook I and II.

We are Level 7 soon to be level 8

Here is what I got so far

No specialization
Improved familiar
Combat familiar
Lurking Familiar (Pseduo dragons are +20 to hide and i want it to deliver touch spells)
Empower Spell
Craft magic arms and armor (we are in a campaign were we have to make our own magic and the warrior has begged me to get this ... I said no at first but with the remake i said ok)


So far, and I am asking for help so obviously this is all open for change, I am thinking of a familiar centric wizard since no one I know of has ever used a familiar.

and for spells I want to look into Touch spells.


Thanks in advance

I had made a wizard that specialized in Ray spells but it got axed because we were in an outdoor adventure and single shotting everything (Hydra, T-Rex ect) made the DM say ... no more Spell compendium .... no more Complete mage or any other book except dmg and player's handbook I and II.

I also had played a Psion but that was over power (they said... at low level it appeared that way but what killed it was the Psi Crystal's Scouting abilities [if the DM thinks that was bad wait till she sees my pseduo dragon at work )

[Kurald Galain]

Is there any help out there to make a wizard using only DMG, Player's Handbook I and II.

Sure. Google up the Logic Ninja Wizard Guide.

No specialization

First tip - specialize. It's an excellent tradeoff, resulting in a stronger character. D&D rewards focus; you get more high-level spells cast per day, and you can drop the things you wouldn't use anyway. Even better, take the Focused Specialist alternate class feature, which gets you yet more spells per day at the cost of a third school. It's still a good tradeoff.

Second tip - pick a prestige class. Or two, or three. Since the wizard class has essentially no abilities other than spells-per-day, you have very little reason not to go prestige.

Collegiate Wizard is an excellent feat to get more spells in your spellbook, btw.

Improved familiar
Combat familiar
Lurking Familiar (Pseduo dragons are +20 to hide and i want it to deliver touch spells)

I'm going to assume this is part of your character concept; otherwise I'd say that investing three feats into a familiar is simply not worth it.

Empower Spell

This is not such a useful metamagic feat. Rather than empowering a 1st-level spell to deal more damage, you should simply add a 3rd-level spell to your spellbook with roughly the same effect. Take Sculpt Spell instead.

Craft magic arms and armor (we are in a campaign were we have to make our own magic and the warrior has begged me to get this ...

A better feat would be Craft Wondrous Item, as this can benefit the entire party (including yourself) instead of mainly the fighter.

So far, and I am asking for help so obviously this is all open for change, I am thinking of a familiar centric wizard since no one I know of has ever used a familiar.

People use familiars all the time at higher level, because you get to imbue familiars with spellcasting.

and for spells I want to look into Touch spells.

Are you sure? That'd mean exposing your fragile self, or your familiar, to melee all the time, not to mention having to make attack rolls.

no more Spell compendium .... no more Complete mage or any other book except dmg and player's handbook I and II.

No problem, several of the best spells are in the players hanbooks.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Look for ranged touch attacks, not touch attacks. One involves avoiding melee and is based on the stat that boosts your AC, the other involves walking up to the enemy and trying to poke them while they hit you with a Large Greatsword.

Also, familiars take very little work to be good. Certainly not 3 feats worth of work.

Also, people can collaborate on magic items, with one providing the feats, and another providing the spells. Who has more feats, you or the fighter? Who wants magic weapons more, you or the fighter? Who should be taking Craft Magic Arms and Armor then?

Specializing is good, but not necessary if you have a high stat mod. That said, no one who had access to Orb spells ever regretted being a Diviner who banned Evocation.

Also, Batman and God.

[senrath]

He's looking for touch attacks since he's going to have his Combat Lurking Pseudodragon familiar deliver them.

[Talic]

Spectral Hand is a more efficient way to deliver touch spells, to be honest. You'd be better off freeing up those feats for other things.

PHB 2 will then have an excellent familiar tradeoff ability, the immediate cast variant. It's goodness.

Finally, even with only PHb, PHb 2, and DMG, You could go:

Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 1 for an improved BAB for touch spells. Otherwise, wait for Loremaster, and Archmage.

[Kurald Galain]

Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 1 for an improved BAB for touch spells. Otherwise, wait for Loremaster, and Archmage.

Plus, if you can get "proficiency with all weapons" from a race (any outsider) or feat (militia, from the FR handbook, but that wasn't in your list) you don't need the fighter level.

But I'd go for Loremaster myself, or look over the PHB2 for funky prestiges.

[Talya]

Gah. Too bad you're so limited in books. The best way to play a generalist, if you don't want to specialize, play an Elf (sun or gray, depending on setting, both get +2 int), and go with the "Elf Generalist Wizard" substitution levels (first two, anyway. Skip the third sub level) in Races of the Wild.

[Talic]

Plus, if you can get "proficiency with all weapons" from a race (any outsider) or feat (militia, from the FR handbook, but that wasn't in your list) you don't need the fighter level.

But I'd go for Loremaster myself, or look over the PHB2 for funky prestiges.

Agreed, on both. Loremaster is the mechanically more powerful choice, and I didn't crack open my PHB2, as the SRD list of PrC's in the DMG was A-Ok for me.

That many abbreviations in one sentence made me think of Robin Williams, in Good Morning Vietnam.

[AnnShadow]

*Edit: I have until next saturday (12 days) to work this character out so I have some time to crunch the ideas.

Spectral Hand is a more efficient way to deliver touch spells, to be honest. You'd be better off freeing up those feats for other things.

PHB 2 will then have an excellent familiar tradeoff ability, the immediate cast variant. It's goodness.

Finally, even with only PHb, PHb 2, and DMG, You could go:

Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 1 for an improved BAB for touch spells. Otherwise, wait for Loremaster, and Archmage.

Question. Do you have to specialize at Level One?? or loose that option?

Look for ranged touch attacks, not touch attacks. One involves avoiding melee and is based on the stat that boosts your AC, the other involves walking up to the enemy and trying to poke them while they hit you with a Large Greatsword.

Also, familiars take very little work to be good. Certainly not 3 feats worth of work.

Also, people can collaborate on magic items, with one providing the feats, and another providing the spells. Who has more feats, you or the fighter? Who wants magic weapons more, you or the fighter? Who should be taking Craft Magic Arms and Armor then?

Great Point. I am going to ask him to take the feat!!

The Familiar Feats were a second character theme.

One being having a familiar. The Second being a touch spell specialist in my initial idea that touch spells are very powerful. However, the person above that recommended the spectral hand spell might obviate the need for all those familliar feats.

Course, having the familiar be able to hide in your square with the rules to say it can, might be worth it all in itself.

Our DM can get upset and if the familiar is too useful she may want to simply kill it. It was the death knell (along with seemingly unlimited first level powers) of my Psion.

[Miles Invictus]

But I'd go for Loremaster myself, or look over the PHB2 for funky prestiges.

The PHB2 does not have prestige classes; only base classes.

Great Point. I am going to ask him to take the feat!!

It requires a caster level of 5, so your fighter can't qualify for it. What your fighter should do instead is spend his skill points on crafting skills, so he can build the equipment and you can imbue it. Replace Empower Spell with Craft Wondrous Item so the two of you can churn out lots of quality equipment; it'll also fulfill one of the requirements for Loremaster. You can then take Skill Focus (Knowledge) at 9th level and enter the PrC at 10th.

[Cuddly]

I second switching the craft weapon&armor for craft wondrous item. Wondrous items have more utility for everyone.

I like your familiar idea- don't listen to the nay-sayers here. They may not realize how powerful scouting can be for a wizard with empty spell slots. However, I think you should only due it if your party lacks a rogue. Make sure to give your pseudodragon a cloak of elvenkind (you can craft one for half the cost if you pick up the craft wondrous item feat and are an elf).

[Collin152]

I second switching the craft weapon&armor for craft wondrous item. Wondrous items have more utility for everyone.

I like your familiar idea- don't listen to the nay-sayers here. They may not realize how powerful scouting can be for a wizard with empty spell slots. However, I think you should only due it if your party lacks a rogue. Make sure to give your pseudodragon a cloak of elvenkind (you can craft one for half the cost if you pick up the craft wondrous item feat and are an elf).

You'd think a cloak would reduce it's stealth.

[Cuddly]

You'd think a cloak would reduce it's stealth.

It's a magic cloak.

[Collin152]

It's a magic cloak.

Still a cloak on a cat-like dragon.

[Eldariel]

Magic Items autosize themselves and it's a Cloak of Elvenkind á la LoTR, so I don't see anything weird in it making the thing even harder to notice.

[Helgraf]

Gah. Too bad you're so limited in books. The best way to play a generalist, if you don't want to specialize, play an Elf (sun or gray, depending on setting, both get +2 int), and go with the "Elf Generalist Wizard" substitution levels (first two, anyway. Skip the third sub level) in Races of the Wild.

Yeah, excepting of course Races of the Wild isn't an option when you're limited to PHB, PHB II, DMG.

[Talic]

Question. Do you have to specialize at Level One?? or loose that option?

Yes, unfortunately. Regardless, one of the most generally accepted schools to ban is Evocation.

The power 2 are transmutation and conjuration. These two are powerhouses. They're incredibly versatile, and have a host of powerful effects. Even as low as level 1, Mage Armor, Reduce Person, and the like are good. Counting up, there's Wind Wall, polymorph, and many, many more.

Others that are really useful are Illusion (mimics many other spells, and even lets you get some of those evocation spells back, for the really good ones)...
Abjuration (Dispel Magic is a hallmark spell. Almost worth it for that alone, not counting shield, protection from X, and the like)
Necromancy is pretty good stuff, but it's not absolutely necessary. It'll tear up enemies, but so can your power 2.
Divination is a gimme. Everyone gets it.
Enchantment's good when it works, but there are a lot of things that tend to be immune. Not a good everyday school for combat, generally, as it's not as reliable.

[AnnShadow]

Two Points:

One, I am a human.

Two, we are playing a module that is outdoors and we cannot get to any "civilized" area for .... um .. until I (and the cleric [travel domain]) get teleport. Which now that I write it may not be too very long from now.

I think I agree with the general theme about Wondrous Items and craft arms and armor. That and my other feat give me the needed preq. for Loremaster which I think Ill go for.

I was concerned about Familiar progression but you don't really gain much with a pseudo dragon after level 7 anyway (some natural AC and Int) but since it is already smarter than the fighter, I can argue that if the Familiar is not smart enough to do something than the warrior must be told what to do also. that would be interesting.

Now I'm thinking
1st Improved Familiar
1st Knowledge [Spell Craft] > preq for loremaster
3rd Empower Spell
5th Craft Wondrous Item
6th Craft Arms and Armor

I also min-maxed my skill points to 28 pt build
str 9
Dex 10
Con 14 (I rolled extremely well [infront of the DM no less and Have 25 hp with no con bonus, at level 7 ... with +2/level that will give me 39hp and the Familiar 20hp) could make it 21 with 16 con??
Int 18 (to get to 20 by Level 8)
Wis 10
Chr 8

My High Hps was one reason I was thinking of going with a Touch spell Wizard. but with the Spectral Hand spell I can still use touch spells but from a distance. thanks for that advice!!!

would it be better to make Wis 8 and Chr 10? and take the -1 to Will Save?

We have been fighting a LOT of dinosaur type animals and we may fight some demons or devils later on (DM hint about Someone has to take Knowledge Planes) and we are trying to be heros by thwarting a mass plague so i'm thinking demon/devil plot.)

We just got into a dungeon and fought a Black pudding so maybe more traditional dungeon crawl fare is coming our way.

by the way. It was my One shot Killing of a Hydra and then a T-Rex with Ray of Stupidity that got the DM to say NO MORE SPELL COMPENDIUM!!!

LOL a level 3 wizard one shotting a T-Rex and a 7 headed hydra -- no save- No Spell Res.

What a stupid spell

[Kurald Galain]

I think I agree with the general theme about Wondrous Items and craft arms and armor.

Actually, I don't think anybody suggested you take both of them. CWI is much better than CAA, but taking both is probably worse than just taking only CAA since you don't get all that many feats and there's so much to spend them on (such as metamagic, cloudy conjuration stuff, imp initiative, etc).

would it be better to make Wis 8 and Chr 10? and take the -1 to Will Save?

Not particularly, no.

And, well, if you're not allowed Ray of Stupidity, there's still the Enfeeblement variation.