Entry into Abjurant Champion

[Fruan]

So, I'm sure there has to be an easier way for a wizard to get into Abjurant Champion than just burning a feat on the needed weapon proficiency. I've been going over my group's books for a while looking for a PrC that gives such a prof, doesn't cause the loss of caster levels and isn't too difficult to get into, but after little luck and waning interest it occured to me that I could just ask here - surely there are some cunning tricks for this that have been worked out far in advance of me ever wanting to do it.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Quick and dirty: Play an Elf, and suck up that CON penalty.

Hm, does Ruathar get weapon profs?

[Trouvere]

I was going to say Dragonslayer, but it requires two fairly useless feats itself.

[Fruan]

Quick and dirty: Play an Elf, and suck up that CON penalty.

Hm, does Ruathar get weapon profs?

So... I give up the bonus feat from being a human to avoid spending a feat on a martial weapon prof? And into the deal I lose a skill point per level, get a con penalty and have to put up with being an elf? Hmmmm.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

On the Alternate Class Features list by Fax_Celestis it says you can trade 2 spell slots for domain access. Pick the war domain and you're golden. Not sure on the source, though, so you may have to PM him.

Edit: If you decide to go with a dip, it's probably better to do a dip in Human Paragon than Fighter.

[Fruan]

f you decide to go with a dip, it's probably better to do a dip in Human Paragon than Fighter.

A dip like that is out of the question - I'd rather lose a feat than lose a caster level. The only problem is that I'm greedy and would like to lose neither.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

So... I give up the bonus feat from being a human to avoid spending a feat on a martial weapon prof? And into the deal I lose a skill point per level, get a con penalty and have to put up with being an elf? Hmmmm.

Hey now. +2 DEX, possible +2 INT, effectively a bonus feat (for you, anyway), and situational abilities/modifiers might not make up for all the human has to offer, but it does get you the Elven Generalist substitution level for wizards.

Speaking of Races of the Wild, though, I answered my own question. Ruathar gets a free martial weapon proficiency in an elf-y weapon. They are an elf-lovin' prestige class, though, so if you just plain don't like elves for their fluff, you're out of luck.

[Erebus]

Could you please explain why you want to go as an Abjurant Champion as a wizzard? and practically unless you get an elf or a dwarf or a gnome or any other race that has profficiency with a martial/exotic weapon you will have to "burn" that feat..

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Automatic swift 3rd level spells, better HP, and more reliable touch attacks are reasons enough to take Abjurant Champion without going Gish.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe Gnomes or Dwarves get martial weapon proficiencies. Their respective racial weapons are treated as martial weapons due to racial familiarity, but that's not the same thing.

[Erebus]

elf or a dwarf or a gnome or any other race that has profficiency with a martial/exotic weapon you will have to "burn" that feat..

Check with your DM he might "bend" the rules a bit and make it the same for exotic weapons to fit in.

:)

Hmm does your DM allows Flaws???Cause you can take one and gain an extra feat (in you case that martial weapon feat you want) (Limit is 2 flaws :P)

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Gnomes and Dwarves do not have proficiency with their racial weapons. They treat the weapons as martial weapons. Which means they get proficiency as soon as they take a level in a class with "all martial weapons" as class weapons.

[Erebus]

Not 100% sure on that..tbh I ve always played characters that had profficiency with martial weapons therefore never had to read that part...and the chars that did not had profficiency with martial weapons i did not care enough for that profficiency to look it up :)

Think about the Flaw alternative btw ;)

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Not 100% sure on that..tbh I ve always played characters that had profficiency with martial weapons therefore never had to read that part...and the chars that did not had profficiency with martial weapons i did not care enough for that profficiency to look it up :)

Think about the Flaw alternative btw ;)

Weapon Familiarity: Dwarves may treat dwarven waraxes and dwarven urgroshes as martial weapons, rather than exotic weapons.

That's all it says about that. Same with gnomes.

Anyway, even if he had flaws, he'd still want to use his extra feats for something other than weapon proficiencies. I still say look at (Grey) Elf or Ruathar.

[Darrin]

So, I'm sure there has to be an easier way for a wizard to get into Abjurant Champion than just burning a feat on the needed weapon proficiency.

Hmm. Well, there are some feat options other that Martial Weapon Proficiency that give you a little more than just one martial proficiency:

Otherworldly (Player's Guide to Faerun) - Makes you an outsider, and outsiders are proficient with all melee weapons. Also gives you Darkvision 60, +2 on Diplomacy checks, and immunity to charm/hold person. And you totally wouldn't take advantage of the Alter Self/Dwarven Ancestor cheese, of course.

Militia (Player's Guide to Faerun) - Another FR-specific regional feat, similar to Otherworldly. Proficient with all martial weapons. No darkvision, diplomacy bonus, or Alter Self cheese, though.

Divine Sorcery (Dragon #343) - Requires sorcerer 1st, but gives you a Domain power (such as War, which would give you a martial weapon prof + weapon focus) and one domain spell/day.

Shape Soulmeld: Incarnate Weapon (Magic of Incarnum) - Okay, this is a bit dodgy, since it doesn't explicitly say you gain proficiency with a martial weapon, but it does say that the non-proficient penalty never applies. It counts as an aligned weapon, and if you have a way to pump essentia into it, it gets an enhancement bonus. Gains a stun effect if you have a way to bind it to your arms chakra.

Races - if Elf doesn't work, try a Tiefling with racial class levels (LA +0), and just never take your racial level:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a

You still count as an outsider, so you're proficient with all martial weapons. You don't get the +2 Int bonus, but the +2 Dex isn't bad, and the -2 Cha isn't likely to hurt you as a wizard. You could also do Tiefling with the LA +1 and LA buyoff for the Int bonus.

PrCs... hmmm. The only thing I can find that gives you +1 caster level and a martial weapon proficiency is:

Ruathar (Races of the Wild) - Essentially, you love elves so much you want to be one, and they teach you how to use one of the elven racial weapons (rapier, longsword, longbow or shortbow). You can get into it at Wizard 5, although it requires some great service to the elven community.

[Tokiko Mima]

You could always becomes a Karsite (ToM), and completely buy off your +2 level adjustment by level 9. Karsites have all the benefits of humans (bonus feat, skill points) along with DR 5/magic, a magic item draining touch and (level + 10) spell resistance that heals them whenever they resist a spell AND get all martial weapons, light and medium armor proficiencies as a racial feat.

Of course, they can't cast any spells at all, ever. So it would kinda defeat the purpose of being an Abjurant Champion, I suppose.

I think the most elegant solution is the Arcane Disciple (War) Feat, but it requires a little DM approval, since technically you only gain the spells, and not the granted power of the domain you choose. The benefit here is that the War Domain has Divine Power, which will set your BAB to be equal to your character level and therefore make melee combat an actual option for you.

[LoneGamer]

Automatic swift 3rd level spells, better HP, and more reliable touch attacks are reasons enough to take Abjurant Champion without going Gish.

Only Abjurations of up to third level. Also, Arcane Boost is a nice reason if you have spell slots to spare.

[valadil]

The benefit here is that the War Domain has Divine Power, which will set your BAB to be equal to your character level and therefore make melee combat an actual option for you.

Hrmm. A cleric X/wizard 1 who qualified for abjurant champ could use divine power to get BAB up to character level and then martial arcanist to get the wizard caster level up to full character level. Granted the character has low level wizard spells at high power, and if he took all 5 levels of abjurant champ he'd be 6 levels below in cleric. I wonder if that's breakable. Divine metamagic does apparently work on arcane magic. Maybe you could make some sort of uber buffer this way? Abjurant armor looks like it applies to arcane and divine spells so your shield of faith would be huge.

[LoneGamer]

Abjurant armor looks like it applies to arcane and divine spells so your shield of faith would be huge.

Abjurant Armour only applies to abjurations that give an armour or shield bonus to AC. Shield of Faith gives Deflection.

[valadil]

Abjurant Armour only applies to abjurations that give an armour or shield bonus to AC. Shield of Faith gives Deflection.

D'oh. That's what I get for trying to optimize at work while my boss isn't looking. I still think there might be a way to make divine power for arcane caster levels do something interesting, though I haven't a clue what it is.

[SadisticFishing]

Grey Elf is better than human for wizards anyways.

Lesser Tiefling works too, as an Outsider they have proficiency with all weapons, and I believe they get +2 int, -2 cha. But I'm not sure.

Basically, there is no way to get a free feat - you're going to have to give something up. Giving up 1 skill point a level and a feat for a feat and 1 skill point per level and +1 to the DC of all your spells and bonus spells... That's a good deal.

[Tokiko Mima]

Another idea: Play an elf and use the Dark Chaos Shuffle (Embrace the Dark Chaos/Shun the Dark Chaos) to get ~5 extra feats by raiding your racial weapon proficiency feats. You'd lose a feat initially, but when you learn 8th level spells, you could get it back and more. Just leave one martial weapon proficiency so you still fufill your prestige prerequisites.