Wizard: Which creature should I use for polymorph/alter self?

[neochaos]

Hi, I'm playing Lv 7 human Wizard, and I don't know which creature I should polymorph/alter self into. Do you experts have any creature in mind? I hope that creature could give me some kind of natural armor bonus or special movement, like fly or something.

[mostlyharmful]

For Poly try Treant for Core, and for alter self it depends if you want natural armour boosts, movement types or stat boosts, or blending into X setting, or whatever.... But first and foremost don't do it. They just aren't worth the point of destroying the game.

[Gorbash]

Is it really *that* broken? If yes, then why? In my gaming group we have a rule that you can change only into creatures that you saw, so far I can change into a variety of goblinoids, a troll, some other totally unimportant creatures and a Behir (not that remarkable because of my +4 BAB), which I will use as a last resort in big battles when I run out of other spells (using the Batman build)...

[mostlyharmful]

It's really that broken for it's level certainly. Your fix is a fairly standard one and it gives DMs a certain amount of control over what gets handed out to players but just look at some of the benefits that can be grabbed with this 4th level spell (check out the CharOp boards on WotC for some truely ridunkulous stuff), even in core you can pick up huge bonusses on stats, Natural armour, size, abilities, types, attacks, and (Choker) actions. Given this was suppossed to be equvilant to some of the other sucky 4th level stuff it stands out to say the least. A commoner given polymorph can fill in for a tank or a sneak role in a party, that should tell you all you need.

You add in more than just core and it gets ever more uber.

~And Alterself is like a lower level version. It gives you flight, burrow, mad Nat Armour bonuses and that's just as a humanoid never mind if you're an outsider or whatever.

For your fix add in monsters that you read about as nifty and go look at in a zoo of a higher level caster. or scry. or whatever. if you can get a knowledge check that these are the mutts nutts in shapeshifting (probably quite reasonable given others have done it before you and writen a list) there's any number of ways you can get a sneak peak dependant on the campaign of course.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Of course, once you level up a bit, you get a classic shape: Remorhaz. 8d6 fire damage for da foo' who hits you is nice.

[mostlyharmful]

Of course, once you level up a bit, you get a classic shape: Remorhaz. 8d6 fire damage for da foo' who hits you is nice.

Meh. I'd still go with Treant for the casting. simulcast baby!

[Gorbash]

The rule says that you can change only in creatures that you saw and NONE other. So, no I can't change not even into an orc, because I never saw one. No knowledge checks, no common creatures, nothing.

[mostlyharmful]

The rule says that you can change only in creatures that you saw and NONE other. So, no I can't change not even into an orc, because I never saw one. No knowledge checks, no common creatures, nothing.

You know about it you investigate it. You investigate it with magic it's not all that far to you getting a good look at it.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Meh. You should be able to make knowledge checks and know all common races. Something like orcs, hobbos, bugbears, and goblins being kosher, and the know check could be 15 + twice the HD.

[Gorbash]

Yes, you should... But we agreed on a rule that says NOTHING except what you saw... I don't even use it... Have had it for two levels, didn't use it once, because other Batman stuff is just so much fun.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Agreed. Solid fog + Pink tentacles = Most awesome win/humiliating defeat ever.

[Talya]

Raptorans or Averiel are good. As a player of a sorcerer, this spell is a godsend. It can do multiple jobs for me, although I primarily use it as a better version of "Fly." (Because, let's face it, the actual spell "Fly" sucks. Even the duration of 10 minutes/level of alter self is a bit too low...and overland flight is too far up the spell level chart.)

[Azerian Kelimon]

There was a better levitate that gave you perfect fly for hours on end. If only I could find it...

[Deepblue706]

Alter self works for only creatures within one size step - I didn't see anything for Polymorph, though. Is there any size limitation? If not, is Hydra a good choice? So many attacks...

[obvious pun]

Alter self works for only creatures within one size step - I didn't see anything for Polymorph, though. Is there any size limitation? If not, is Hydra a good choice? So many attacks...

No, I checked, and it says nothing about size limits for polymorph. And yes, Hydra is a good choice. Or even better, Pyrohydra, 3d6 fire damage per head every 1d4 rounds.

[Frosty]

No, I checked, and it says nothing about size limits for polymorph. And yes, Hydra is a good choice. Or even better, Pyrohydra, 3d6 fire damage per head every 1d4 rounds.

You don't get the firebreathing attack with Polymorph. You do with Shapechange though.

[Iku Rex]

Alter self: Troglodyte (+6 NA), tren (SerpKing, +8 NA), crucian (MinH, Sand, +8 NA).

Polymorph: Pixie (flight, Dex), troll (Con, NA), annis hag (Str, NA).

Treant is good if the DM allows you to keep your magical equipment in plant form.

[Starbuck_II]

Alter self: Troglodyte (+6 NA), tren (SerpKing, +8 NA), crucian (MinH, Sand, +8 NA).

Polymorph: Pixie (flight, Dex), troll (Con, NA), annis hag (Str, NA).

Treant is good if the DM allows you to keep your magical equipment in plant form.

Magic items resize so they should work. Weapons/armor won't though they will be absorbed.

[Iku Rex]

Magic items resize so they should work. Weapons/armor won't though they will be absorbed.

The rules are fuzzy. Magic clothing and jewelry are "easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically" (DMG). Do you have time to "adjust" your items during the change?

According to alter self/polymorph an item will meld if the new form isn't "capable of wearing or holding the item". Now, can the spell discover that an item will magically resize or will it just decide it doesn't fit in the new form and meld it?

Then there's the matter of how close you have to get for an item to fit. Can a treant wear boots? How humanoid can you make its form?

The FAQ suggests leniency:

What happens to the equipment worn and carried by a
character polymorphed* into another creature capable of
wearing and carrying the same gear? What if the new
creature’s size is different?
Unless stated otherwise, all spells in the polymorph chain
function as described in the alter self spell description, which
states that if the new form is capable of wearing or holding the
item, it remains worn or held; otherwise it melds into the new
form and becomes nonfunctional. A human polymorphed into
another Medium humanoid-shaped form (such as an elf,
grimlock, or bearded devil) can wear or hold all his gear, so it
remains in place.
However, this is one of those times when size definitely
matters, since your gear doesn’t automatically change size as a
result of polymorph. Assuming the new form has appropriate
body locations—for instance, a human polymorphed into a troll
or a pixie—most of your magic items (rings, cloaks, boots, and
other items of magic clothing or jewelry) still fit just fine
regardless of your new size (see “Size and Magic Items” on
page 213 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide).
Nonmagical clothing and accoutrements that don’t fit the
new size meld into the character’s body when he is
polymorphed. (The Sage recommends that DMs err on the side
of leniency when determining what the new form can or can’t
wear.)
Similarly, armor (even magic armor) doesn’t resize to fit
wearers of different sizes. The human described above loses the
benefit of his +1 full plate armor as it melds into his body,
even though the new form is capable of wearing armor.
As long as your new form can hold weapons (that is, it has
hands or other similarly dexterous extremities), you hold on to
whatever weapons you had before the change. However, since
the weapons are no longer of a size appropriate to you, you take
a penalty on attack rolls with them as described on page 113 of
the Player’s Handbook. A human polymorphed into a troll can
still hold his Medium weapons (although they’re now one size
category too small for optimal use and thus he’ll suffer a –2
penalty on attack rolls). On the plus side, he can now wield that
Medium greatsword with only one hand, meaning he could
pick up a shield or a second weapon to wield simultaneously.
If your barbarian is regularly polymorphed into a troll or
stone giant, you might want to consider carrying an extra Large
weapon for use in those situations.
*The question and answer uses “polymorph” to refer
specifically to spells that rely on the polymorph or alter self
spell to adjudicate their effect (including alter self, polymorph,
polymorph any object, and shapechange), psionic powers based
on the metamorphosis power (including metamorphosis and
greater metamorphosis), and any other effect based on either of
these lists.

[Funkyodor]

My suggestion is to grab some 3x5 note cards and write yourself up as several things. 3 Alter Selves with various purposes, 3-4 Polymorph versions with everything you gain, HP's restored, Items that transfer, etcetera. So that you don't have to hunt through a book in the middle of an action. Just make sure you try and cover the basics, something that flys, something that swims, something that burrows, something with High AC, something with alot of STR, something small, something big, something that hides, something that spots/listens... Um, thats alot of basics. This also makes it easier for the DM to decide if it's allowed. Seeing something in the DMG and thinking it would be overpowered and actually stat'ing yourself into it can be quite an eye opener (FYI Polymorphing into a Choker is a bad idea since you don't get the extra standard action, it is a Special Quality and listed as Supernatural. But it is small and has bonuses to hide and climb).