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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Pimp my birdie (priest)!

    <emerges from gate to Elemental Plane of Air... hoping the windstorm unleashed isn't as bad as the flood from his last thread>

    Righty, here I am asking for advice again. First, a few words of thanks. A few weeks ago, I approached you looking for aid with regard to A Ship, A Dragon, and Pirates. In the end, I went with a Juvenile Red and a Juvenile Bronze with a level of Fighter (for the sole purpose of wielding a jovar while in )humanoid form). The encounter ended with no one dead, but both sides fairly well mauled and wanting revenge. The player of the Swashbuckler/Lasher (he actually got to get on the Red's back with the aid of his non-magical whip) had this to say when I told him I was actually pulling my punches: “We need to get a lot more levels.” So to all in GitP, thank you!

    Now, to business. I recently got involved in another campaign, this one starting at level 3. My first character was a Gray Elf Necromancer, and I had the goal of going True Necromancer. Small problem with that, though. Magic is really, really rare in this world, and we aren't getting paid at the moment (the town the party's in runs on a barter economy). Sensing it'd be more trouble than it was worth to pursue my goal, my Necromancer left the town and the party. I came in with a Half-Orc Barbarian with the Spiritual Lion Totem right away, having literally drawn him up on the spot. First fight we get into, he damn near dies. Fifteen goblins and their chieftain accompanied by seven gnolls. I had a lot of hit points, but my AC was abysmal to the point of even the goblins were able to hit me reliably. After the party cleaned house, he got healed by an NPC... then went into negative HP again as soon as his rage ended. NPC Ranger heals me again, then a rift opens in the ground. I'm the only one who fails my Reflex save, and fall 20-30 feet. I go into negatives again. At this point, I just said “Screw this, I'm making another character.” The party desperately needs a cleric, so I'm coming in with a Raptoran Cleric. The party is outlined below. The only magic item we are allowed is a single potion of cure light wounds

    -Big Al, Human Wizard/Artificer- He attacks the darkness and makes items, and is accompanied by his voicebox Corax. He doesn't speak, and he's faked melee combat rather well.
    -Oberon, Warlock- He's got both range and, to a degree, melee covered. He wields a spiked chain and has combined it with Hideous Blow to good effect. I foresee him picking up Fell Flight when in becomes available.
    -Zarakai, Dragonborn Human Duskblade- The gish-in-a-can has chosen the Winged track, so he'll eventually get airborne as well.

    My Raptoran Cleric presently looks like this:

    Raptoran Cleric, starting level 3
    Starting Stats: Str 13, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 13, Wis 17, Cha 12

    21 HP
    AC 15 (+2 Dex, +3 Armor,)

    Feats:
    Air Devotion, Improved Toughness

    Domains:
    Air, Windstorm (Spell Compendium)

    Wields: presently undecided

    2,700 GP to spend

    Masterwork light mace
    Masterwork light crossbow
    Masterwork studded leather armor
    10 bolts
    backpack
    waterskin
    flint & steel
    wooden holy symbol
    1,879 GP left


    I'm seeing my role as being the combat medic and a support caster, occasionally calling down some lightning. I'm guessing the party will eventually be fully airborne, what with the Artificer's ability to craft pretty much anything he damn well pleases. I've left what I'm wielding blank, even though I have weaponry listed in my inventory. Also debating whether or not to use a shield of some kind. With a heavy and Air Devotion, I can get my AC up to 18 and mess up half of the ranged-weapon attacks that hit me, but I have only 21 HP to work with. I'm open to suggestions, as I want to stick with this character very much so.

    -Archetype

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Pimp my birdie (priest)!

    something is screaming divine metamagic persistent spell at me.

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    wadledo's Avatar

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    Hooray raptorans!

    I can only assume you're taking the raptoran cleric sub levels.
    If you plan on summoning constantly, this is a good thing, but otherwise you realy don't gain anything worthwhile.

    Also, take the skypledged PrC as soon as possible(which is 7th) no matter which way you take this, as being able to cast effectively spontaneous spells from both the druid and cleric lists is very nice.

    Damn, I wish I had seen Windstorm when I had made my own raptoran cleric, though you should consider changing Air domain to Sky, as spot and an additional +5 to fly speed is better than rebuking earth elementals.

    I'd suggest a spear for a weapon, being that you don't really have a place in the front lines.
    Last edited by wadledo; 2008-04-23 at 01:09 AM.
    Idiots give me indigestion.
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    Maybe this is the only true fix for spellcasting, making people scared of using it.
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    There's a concept called mercy. Are you familiar with it?
    Thank ya Dr.Bath for your avataring skills.

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    Default Re: Pimp my birdie (priest)!

    Quote Originally Posted by wadledo View Post
    Hooray raptorians!
    Augh! Raptoran! There's no I. Why is it that so many people make that mistake?

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Pimp my birdie (priest)!

    H'ok, time to address these one at a time. We'll start with you, wadledo.

    Quote Originally Posted by wadledo
    I can only assume you're taking the raptorian cleric sub levels.
    If you plan on summoning constantly, this is a good thing, but otherwise you realy don't gain anything worthwhile.
    I was planning on dong that, actually. I'll be taking a hit in the HP department, but I'll still have about enough to get by, and I do love elementals.

    Quote Originally Posted by wadledo
    Also, take the skypledged PrC as soon as possible(which is 7th) no matter which way you take this, as being able to cast effectively spontaneous spells from both the druid and cleric lists is very nice.
    Believe it or not, this is all but in my grand plan. It'll take a bit of “bookkeeping,” but it has a crapton of nifty benefits. Seeing as how the party will be airborne a lot eventually anyways, the other class features will also come in handy, methinks.

    Quote Originally Posted by wadledo
    I'd consider changing Air domain to Sky, as spot and an additional +5 to fly speed is better than rebuking earth elementals.
    <facepalms> D'oh. Wish I'd seen that earlier. Knowing the DM, it shouldn't be hard to convince him that either Sky or Windstorm would be a fitting prereq for Air Devotion. I'll be keeping to light armor, so speed increase is a great thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by wadledo
    I'd suggest a spear for a weapon, being that you don't really have a place in the front lines.
    I was thinking the same thing. Besides, I associate the spear a lot more with the air than any of the other simple weapons. That's what I get for all my exposure to the various Final Fantasy Dragoon characters...

    Quote Originally Posted by nohwl
    something is screaming divine metamagic persistent spell at me.
    And one huge thing is stopping me from doing that, and it's how terribly broken that combo is. If you've read the party make-up for the game I run, then you'll know that optimization as you know it is far, far from the norm around here. Heck, it's so unseen that many around here think monks are a broken class. Right before this week's game, I have a 20th level Dwarf Cleric set to deliver a fatal beatdown to a 20th level human Monk with only the PHB at our disposal (a challenge issued in response to this “munkz r epic win” mindset). I'd like to keep well away from such combos with this Raptoran, thank you very much.


    Time to look at the changes:

    Raptoran Cleric, starting level 3
    Starting Stats: Str 13, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 13, Wis 17, Cha 12

    19 HP, possibly less or more (would have to reroll HP)
    AC 15 (+2 Dex, +3 Armor,)

    Feats:
    Air Devotion, Improved Toughness

    Domains:
    Sky, Windstorm (Spell Compendium)

    Wields: masterwork shortspear

    2,700 GP to spend

    Masterwork shortspear
    Masterwork light crossbow
    Masterwork studded leather armor
    10 bolts
    backpack
    waterskin
    flint & steel
    wooden holy symbol
    1,883 GP left


    I'm actually thinking shortspear because it's three pounds lighter than the regular spear. With a light load limit of 50 pounds, I'll need every pound under it I can get until I get the funds to commission Big Al to make me a Heward's. Special materials also aren't so readily available, and we have to go out and get them ourselves. Thankfully, Big Al recently made a pick. Thanks a bunch.

    -Archetype

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    wadledo's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebo_ View Post
    Augh! Raptoran! There's no I. Why is it that so many people make that mistake?
    Because Rap-tor-ian sounds more natural than Rap-tor-an.
    Idiots give me indigestion.
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    Wadledo, you dislike EVERYONE. Therefore, you don't count.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    Maybe this is the only true fix for spellcasting, making people scared of using it.
    Quote Originally Posted by dragonprime View Post
    There's a concept called mercy. Are you familiar with it?
    Thank ya Dr.Bath for your avataring skills.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    (first of all- glad to hear you used the two dragon options AND incorporated a bronze dragon, but back to the matter at hand).

    i am not very familiar with the various feats, domains, rules and such, i'm far more a "rolepaly concept" type of character planner, but here are soem ideas (that might, or might not work):

    1- if you remember the race called Aarakokra (svage species? 2nd ed? can't remember) i always imagined their attack would be great for the raptoran- swoop high above and let go the spears/ javelins. you could stow loads of them in HHH later in the game. might be worth as a tactic when in the open field. just make sure with your Dm what are the rules for this kind of aerial "missle" launching...

    2- alchemical stuff, and lots of it- tanglefoot bags can do wonders against airborn opponents, noxious smokesteaks can incapacitate archers. alchemists fire, burning oil and all that good stuff is always fun!(one of my players, who played a Swift Wing Shifter once tied a bunch of these vials in a row, put them in a sac, flew, and litteraly carptet bombed a small kobold encampment. well, part of it anyway, they shot him down... but you're domains are supposed to help you there, right?)

    also, some miscellenious stuff- Caltrops from above, ahoy! (in order to slow down those pesky escapees... i would suggest a net, but that's a feat best spent on something else.

    3- just throwing an idea here: it seems that you've chosen both domains to accentuate the aerial aspect of your character... since i don't have the source detailing the Sky domain, i can't realy tell what benefits it gives, but i'll hazard a guss that it overlaps the Windstorm doamin at some points... perhaps another domain? one that might reflect another aspect of your beliefs? something that might give the character other options if need be?

    as i said, just thought...

    4- if you're not using the javelins, then perhaps a crossbow? (or a longbow if you have access to martial weapons somehow). a decent ranged weapon can keep you engaged, even if you're nearly out of spells, or without any effective ones.

    some of these might not work. but if any did, then this migth be worth it.
    kol
    Last edited by Kol Korran; 2008-04-23 at 08:49 AM.

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    (Indeed. Goes along the line of thinking “One's target practice, two's trouble.” Forgot to mention that the Lasher and Warblade were unable to attack the Bronze due to a timely repulsion breath attack on both of them. My party has mediocre-to-poor Will saves and I lurve exploiting that. )

    Quote Originally Posted by Kol Korran
    i'm far more a "rolepaly concept" type of character planner, but here are soem ideas (that might, or might not work):
    Have you by any chance not seen the party make-ups I've posted? Pretty much everyone does that around here, especially the player of Big Al (and to a very large degree, Corax). I'm guessing a look at the Wizards CharOp boards would absolutely shatter their minds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kol Korran
    1- if you remember the race called Aarakokra (svage species? 2nd ed? can't remember) i always imagined their attack would be great for the raptoran- swoop high above and let go the spears/ javelins. you could stow loads of them in HHH later in the game. might be worth as a tactic when in the open field. just make sure with your Dm what are the rules for this kind of aerial "missle" launching...
    I don't, but I eventually plan on doing so with this character and adding the odd spell here and there. A bit of lightning, a bit of air elemental summoning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kol Korran
    2- alchemical stuff, and lots of it- tanglefoot bags can do wonders against airborn opponents, noxious smokesteaks can incapacitate archers. alchemists fire, burning oil and all that good stuff is always fun!
    I already incorporate this to a small degree in the game I run, and have even thrown such an encounter at the PCs. They've learned to aim for the underslung saddlebag. I'll certainly look up those alchemical items, though. I don't really want to die to a flak barrage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kol Korran
    just throwing an idea here: it seems that you've chosen both domains to accentuate the aerial aspect of your character... since i don't have the source detailing the Sky domain, i can't realy tell what benefits it gives, but i'll hazard a guss that it overlaps the Windstorm doamin at some points... perhaps another domain? one that might reflect another aspect of your beliefs? something that might give the character other options if need be?
    The Sky domain gives me another 5 feet of fly speed and makes Spot a class skill. I'm a cleric of the air and winds, and one who is (eventually) able to fly no less. I'm honoring the pact my people made with the Wind Lords by spreading their gifts to those that might need it, so the Domain choices seem to fit. I'll eventually give up all elemental non-air (read: Earth, Water, and Fire) spells altogether to further solidify my devotion. The Four Winds is all I need.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kol Korran
    4- if you're not using the javelins, then perhaps a crossbow? (or a longbow if you have access to martial weapons somehow).
    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype-
    Masterwork shortspear
    Masterwork light crossbow
    Masterwork studded leather armor
    10 bolts
    backpack
    waterskin
    flint & steel
    wooden holy symbol
    Emphasis is mine. Thanks again for bouncing ideas back and forth, Kol.


    -Archetype

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Pimp my birdie (priest)!

    oh, just one more idea that sprang to mind whe ni saw the list- instead of a wooden symbol, how about a flametouched iron one? (cost 750 gp, same properties as an iron symbol, but it grants you +1 level for turn undead attempts).
    it is basicall from ECS (Eberron), but could easely flavoured for whatever settign you're in... it even stacks with the feat that allows the same effect (though i don't suggest you take it. youseem to have far more importent things to do with your feats)

    as to armor- mithral shirt perhaps? only 1100...

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    Titan in the Playground
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    A few things I'd like to point out:

    Right now, you've got the highest BAB in the party, other than the Duskblade, and are able to wear heavy armor without penalty. Also, other than the Duskblade, you've also got more hit points than anyone else. Even without Divine Power/Righteous Might/DMM Persist cheeze, you're still a better tank than most everyone else.

    So with GMW and Magic Vestments going, you could easily be a solid melee tank.

    Go for Mithral Full Plate when you can afford the 10k+ price, find a way to increase your Dex by one, because all five of your auto-stat boosts should go into Wis, and that will max out your Dex mod to AC.

    Also, go spear and shield. No, really. A Shortspear is one-handed. You can use it with a shield. You can also throw it if you like. The shield means you have more AC than anyone else in the party, making it difficult to take down the healer. This is a *good* thing.
    Last edited by ShneekeyTheLost; 2008-04-23 at 10:02 PM.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Pimp my birdie (priest)!

    divine metamagic chain spell for now, and divine metamagic reach spell for later on. apply them both to heal. your party members will love you.

    you might want the undeath domain so you dont have to get extra turning.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nohwl View Post
    divine metamagic chain spell for now, and divine metamagic reach spell for later on. apply them both to heal. your party members will love you.

    you might want the undeath domain so you dont have to get extra turning.
    Skip DMM Reach. Dip a level into Heirophant and get Divine Reach, which does the same thing.

    And you'd want something like the Protection domain, so you can get Mind Blank as a domain spell. Chain Mind Blank for the party's win. then DMM Chain GMW and Magic Vestments on the whole party. Congratulations, everyone's +1 of xyz is now a +5 of xyz at level 20, saving your party literally millions of GP's along your career. Oh yea, and you can Chain Heal when the whole party is nearly dead. And hit any undead in the area while you're at it.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
    All hail great Shneekeythulhu! Ia Ia Shneeky fthagn
    Spoiler
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    Quite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
    Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
    Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
    Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
    Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
    Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us

    My homebrew world in progress: Falcora

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Pimp my birdie (priest)!

    that would work better. i just dont like how you dont gain a caster level from heirophant.

    try to charge them for the enhancements to their weapons and armor. either a one time fee, or every time you cast it.
    Last edited by Nohwl; 2008-04-23 at 10:51 PM.

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    Sstoopidtallkid's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pimp my birdie (priest)!

    A Pearl of Power is usually an appropriate payment, FYI.
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    FAQ is not RAW!
    Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
    Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
    I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Righty, played Ruadrim for the first time tonight, and he survived despite the idiocy of the Warlock. With a party like this, two Minotaurs and two Troll skeletons is not fun to go up against, and my turnings weren't doing jack ****. Already been called “Birdbrain” and “Harvey Birdman,” so I must be doing something right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kol Korran
    oh, just one more idea that sprang to mind whe ni saw the list- instead of a wooden symbol, how about a flametouched iron one? (cost 750 gp, same properties as an iron symbol, but it grants you +1 level for turn undead attempts).
    I could've used that extra +1 for sure tonight, but there's the problem of special materials other than the normal mundane ones. We'd have to go out and find it ourselves, and there ain't much help to be had from the NPCs as far as locating goes. It's the same reason I went with the masterwork studded leather instead of the mithral chain shirt. I needed something light, protective, and lacking an armor check penalty.

    Quote Originally Posted by SchneekyTheLost
    Right now, you've got the highest BAB in the party, other than the Duskblade, and are able to wear heavy armor without penalty. Also, other than the Duskblade, you've also got more hit points than anyone else.
    Actually, not quite true. The Warlock and I are tied for second in BAB, and I didn't spend any feats to use a weapon my character shouldn't be using. As for heavy armor, I proposed and got approved for Raptoran Cleric racial substitution levels one and three. I've already given up heavy armor and all spells with the earth descriptor.

    Quote Originally Posted by SchneekyTheLost
    Even without Divine Power/Righteous Might/DMM Persist cheeze, you're still a better tank than most everyone else.

    So with GMW and Magic Vestments going, you could easily be a solid melee tank.
    At the point where those spells become available, I think there's really not much point in Persisting it. Besides, if it's on all the time then the enemy knows to expect it and counter it. Better to have something for surprise in this case. GMW and Magic Vestments are still must-have spells when I have enough slots.

    Quote Originally Posted by SchneekyTheLost
    Go for Mithral Full Plate when you can afford the 10k+ price, find a way to increase your Dex by one, because all five of your auto-stat boosts should go into Wis, and that will max out your Dex mod to AC.
    Couple things here. First, see above comment regarding special materials. Second, the Wisdom increases go without saying. Third, I'd like to try to keep my armor light so I can stay airborne. I can't fly when in medium armor, which Mithral Full Plate is.

    Quote Originally Posted by SchneekyTheLost
    Also, go spear and shield. No, really. A Shortspear is one-handed. You can use it with a shield. You can also throw it if you like. The shield means you have more AC than anyone else in the party, making it difficult to take down the healer. This is a *good* thing.
    All of this I am very much aware of, but in the end I decided against it for now. Big Al's picking up Craft Wondrous Item with the level-up he got tonight, so Haversack requests are in the near future provided I can find a way to compensate him properly for it. Then I'll start worrying about getting a shield.

    Quote Originally Posted by nohwl
    divine metamagic chain spell for now, and divine metamagic reach spell for later on. apply them both to heal. your party members will love you.
    Turn Undead uses are mostly going to end up being fuel for Air Devotion, which will provide a bit more benefit next level. Besides, I'm thinking more about bringing in air elementals for Random Plane A (the folks in this campaign world don't know about the other planes) than going CoDzilla.

    Quote Originally Posted by nohwl
    you might want the undeath domain so you dont have to get extra turning.
    Quote Originally Posted by SchneekyTheLost
    And you'd want something like the Protection domain, so you can get Mind Blank as a domain spell.
    My domains are already selected. I'm gearing myself towards being an aerial support caster and the Skypledged prestige class.

    Thanks again for the advice.

    -Archetype

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