DMG and MIC Shopping List...

[TheCountAlucard]

The players I DM for have had their PCs hoarding gold like dragons. In fact, I can truthfully say that the party killed a dragon earlier in the campaign, and have not spent a single copper piece of its loot. Today I pointed out the problem in this to my players. Having appropriate wealth-by-level is not enough; they're going to have problems with encounters in the future if they don't ever equip themselves with any better gear.

The party is about level seven-ish, and the best-equipped out of 'em has bought for himself a +1 weapon and +1 armor.

Anyway, during downtime after our next game, I'm going to let the players spend some of their loot on magic items. I've read the Dungeon Master's Guide's chapter on Magic Items, and there's a lot of stuff out of it that I'd be willing to let them purchase. However, I haven't had a chance to do much more than look over the Magic Item Compendium, so I'm a bit reluctant to give them full access to it. Instead, I'd like to have a few "shopping lists" that contain good (but not game-breaking) choices of items for each character.

Okay, so, here are the characters...

1) Jamben, Human Dread Necromancer 7 (Heroes of Horror). Wields no weapon, preferring the power of his spells in battle. Has a Ring of Sustenance and a chain shirt.

2) Triel, Drow Rogue 5. Wields a Composite Longbow (ranged) and a Rapier (melee). Currently wears no armor.

3) Joker, Half-Elf Fighter 4/Sorcerer 1/Blue Dragon Disciple 1. Dual-wields two (can't remember off the top of my head; either masterwork or +1) shortswords and wears a chain shirt.

4) Jaren, Elf Cleric of Nerull 6. Wields a +1 Scythe and wears a +1 suit of full plate.

Any help can and would be appreciated, thanks.

[Kizara]

Be cautious with the MIC, there are quite a good number of cool items and interesting ideas, a fair number of sub-par items, a good number of balanced ones, a bunch of overpowered ones and a couple broken ones.

In my opinon, you should say "you can look through this, but you have to OK anything with me case-by-case, with the default being "No" if it's even slightly questionable."

As for shopping lists, good luck. Its a great idea but its a ton of work when you want to sit down and do it.

[TheCountAlucard]

Like I said, I'm not giving them full access to it. I intend on giving them a list of permissible items they could buy with their "phat lewt."

For example, the Dragon Disciple's going to be getting a breath attack soon. He might enjoy use of the Lightning Gloves, which would be thematically appropriate for him.

[Vaynor]

Here's a bunch of cheap, useful items.

[Tsotha-lanti]

You don't need to (indeed, you can't) know every item in the book. Surely, when a PC says "I want to buy X", you look X up and tell them whether it's available or not? I don't see the point in crafting a list of permissible items - it'd be freaking huge, surely? Set a gp cap to start with, then rule on a case-by-case basis (and then be consistent; that's always the important part in exercising DM veto powers).

The MIC has a lot of cool items, especially all the "3 charges daily, can be used 1, 2, or 3 at a time for stronger effects" stuff. I especially like that it has a ton of useful low-cost items.

[TheCountAlucard]

Gah, sorry. Permissible items that are thematically appropriate for the characters. You're right; just a list of every item I'd allow would be way too long. For instance, the Dread Necro is only proficient with one martial weapon (Jamben chose a Warhammer), so it'd be pointless to suggest a greatsword for him.

Anyway, I'm gonna have another look through the MIC this weekend. I guess what I'm asking from you guys are a few recommendations for items.

[herrhauptmann]

If WBL for them is 70000 gold, don't let them spend 60000 on one item.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

No Belt of Battle!!!

[Kizara]

Luckily for me, WBL is not 70,000 gp. It's 19,000 at the moment...

Casters: Item of Ability Boost +X. Various wands/scrolls. An item that boosts turning for the dread necro. Nightsticks if the cleric uses DMM alot. Necklace of prayer beads (the mid-range one) if you want to be REALLY nice to your cleric. Oh, and Ring of Counterspells (mainly for the cleric).

Rogue: Ring of Invisibility, roguey skill boosters, hat of disguise, +1 bow with str bonus equal to his str mod, various magical ammunition, gloves of dex +X. Maybe wands/scrolls if he likes UMD (doubt it with your campaign description).

Dragon Disciple: Ah... no clue, character seems kinda crap TBH. Um, magic short swords? +1 mod fort armor? Belt of Giant Strength?


That is my top-of-my-head shopping list. Really, if I hear the words "17,000 gp" and "shopping" in the same sentance as a caster, I buy a thing of my casting stat +4. You don't need anything else.

EDIT: And I second the "ban Belt of Battle" cry. It's brokzors. I wouldn't let them have the really cheap and powerful preception items ethier.

[TheCountAlucard]

Casters: Item of Ability Boost +X. Various wands/scrolls. An item that boosts turning for the dread necro. Nightsticks if the cleric uses DMM alot. Necklace of prayer beads (the mid-range one) if you want to be REALLY nice to your cleric. Oh, and Ring of Counterspells (mainly for the cleric).

Hmm... sounds about right. I was thinking a Cloak of Charisma for Jamben and a Pariapt of Wisdom for Jaren.

Rogue: Ring of Invisibility, roguey skill boosters, hat of disguise, +1 bow with str bonus equal to his str mod, various magical ammunition, gloves of dex +X. Maybe wands/scrolls if he likes UMD (doubt it with your campaign description).

Nah, she doesn't have any ranks in Use Magic Device. She's actually already got a Hat of Disguise.

Dragon Disciple: Ah... no clue, character seems kinda crap TBH. Um, magic short swords? +1 mod fort armor? Belt of Giant Strength?

To be honest, it's not a very good build, but he's survived. Your suggestions sound good nonetheless.

Oh, and I looked up Belt of Battle... It does seem a bit easy to abuse.

[Orak]

In the back of the MIC there are magic item level lists. You could restrict the items they could purchase to level equivalent items. This would be a nice easy way to eliminate a lot of cheese.

It also works really well for rolling loots for encounters.

[Tokiko Mima]

Oh, and I looked up Belt of Battle... It does seem a bit easy to abuse.

Any item that grants extra actions in a round is highly abusable. It's the equivalent of a free Quicken'ed spell that stacks with another Quickened spell but doesn't use up extra spell slots. Extra actions in a round are why Haste was so uber in 3.0 that it had to be slapped with the nerf bat in 3.5: It's not so much of an issue for fighters to gain standard actions, but when a full-caster gets one, it's havoc. I believe there is also a set of boots in the MIC that also grant extra actions, so be careful.

[TheCountAlucard]

Yeah; lucky for me that my players don't try to break the game. I still keep a close eye on 'em, but they behave pretty well.

I discussed Belt of Battle with one of my players (the Dread Necro's player, to be precise). He agreed. "It's frickin' broken." We then joked around about Diplomancers and how easy it is to break something when you've got no houserules.

What do you guys think about Heward's Fortifying Bedroll? It's not too abusable, is it?

[Just Alex]

If your players manage to break sleeping, they're much better optimizers than I am.
As a general rule of thumb, I like to limit players from spending more than half their wealth on a single item. So, make a list of everything around 35000 and below, toss out belt of battle and most relics.
Simple

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

If your players manage to break sleeping, they're much better optimizers than I am.
As a general rule of thumb, I like to limit players from spending more than half their wealth on a single item. So, make a list of everything around 35000 and below, toss out belt of battle and most relics.
Simple

Yes sleeping can be broken. Yes it involves the bedroll, though you can do it not as well without. Yes the bedroll is fine, especially since you don't have a Wizard.

[TheCountAlucard]

Hmm... I could be wrong now, but they just might be able to break sleeping by using three of them. Getting to prepare your spells three times in one day seems a bit game-breaking, but one can just houserule that the owner can only benefit from the effects of one of them...

By the way, how can a Wizard break it in a way that a Dread Necromancer cannot?

[skywalker]

Is there a particular reason you're focused on what's thematically appropriate?

If I were the rogue, I'd like some armor.

Take a look at the armor and weapon crystals in particular, those are nice and cheap, useful, and savvy players will be way interested.

[MeklorIlavator]

Hmm... I could be wrong now, but they just might be able to break sleeping by using three of them. Getting to prepare your spells three times in one day seems a bit game-breaking, but one can just houserule that the owner can only benefit from the effects of one of them...

By the way, how can a Wizard break it in a way that a Dread Necromancer cannot?

I believe that a character can only benefit from the bedroll effect every 48 hours, so it seems taken care of (this is from the complete mage, btw).

And Wizards can do more than Dread Necromancers. Wizards get more tricks, and if played in a certain way, can effectively one shot encounters. For more information, there are several thread about wizards, but I'd suggest Being Batman: the Logic Ninja's Guide to Wizards to get information on how effective they can be.

[Fizban]

Hmm... I could be wrong now, but they just might be able to break sleeping by using three of them. Getting to prepare your spells three times in one day seems a bit game-breaking, but one can just houserule that the owner can only benefit from the effects of one of them...

By the way, how can a Wizard break it in a way that a Dread Necromancer cannot?

No houserule required, it's stated right in the description: no more than once every 48 hours. (correct me if I'm wrong...)

Edit: that's what I get for reading another thread while the page loads..

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

Hmm... I could be wrong now, but they just might be able to break sleeping by using three of them. Getting to prepare your spells three times in one day seems a bit game-breaking, but one can just houserule that the owner can only benefit from the effects of one of them...

By the way, how can a Wizard break it in a way that a Dread Necromancer cannot?

The Roll specifically says that you can only benefit from it or any other bag once a day. So you can't prepare spells 3 times a day unless you:

prepare spells, do an encounter, rest for 8 hours, prepares spells, do an encounter, rest for 1 hour, prepare spells, 2 encounters. In which case they could actually just sleep 8 hours that second time.

The way to break sleeping that a Wizard (and only a Wizard of Archivist can do it) is:

1) Prepare every hour per level buff you want that day, extended. Prepare every 24 hour duration spell extended.
2) Cast them all.
3) Sleep.
4) Wake up prepare spells, with all those spells still active.
5) Go forth with a full suit of active defenses and offensive spells prepared.

Incantatrix can do it better because he can Persist a bunch of spells the day before.

So a level, say 20 Wizard, can be walking around with a set of buffs that lasts 46 hours, and second set of buffs that last 24 hours, and every single spell slot filled with offensive spells.

And you only give up 2 hours of duration if using the Bedroll, instead of 9. (Of course, you can still do just find wasting nine hours of buffs, you still have 15 hours of invulnerability and a full complement of offensive spells to use during that time.)

The reason this is limited to those two characters is because most Divine casters regain spells at a set time (technically bypassable via teleport depending on setting) and only Wizards can actually have the full complement of long duration buffs+offensive spells.

[TheCountAlucard]

Is there a particular reason you're focused on what's thematically appropriate?

Well, that's the sort of things my players are gonna want to go after first.

For example, the Fighter/Blue Dragon Disciple enjoys his draconic heritage, so it's unlikely that he'd wear the hide of a blue dragon as armor.

The Dread Necromancer loves his necromantic prowess. He creates and summons undead in almost every fight, so it'd be kinda dumb for him to have a Helm of Brilliance.

The Cleric of Nerull wields a scythe, even though he could probably use a much more effective weapon, because Nerull wields a scythe.

Oh, and, yeah, the Rogue is probably gonna upgrade to some magical Leather or Studded Leather armor...

[Azerian Kelimon]

Can't believe it. No cornucopia of the needful?

It's Yondalla's relic, but it doesn't require you to be a follower. For 6k, you get a boatload of nice effects, such as heroes feast (Only for G characters, the heroes feast, though. Everything else is fair game), Heal, SR 25, Death Ward, Divine power, and Break Enchantment. At CL 20.

Pervert the powers of Good and get so nice effects? Yes, please.

[TheCountAlucard]

Actually, it says you can only use its abilities if you're Lawful Neutral, Neutral Good, or Lawful Good; however, none of the PCs are of any of those alignments.

Admittedly, with even one person of LN, NG, or LG alignment, this item would be a real steal, but it'd be useless to my party.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Nope, it only specifies that on heroes feast. Everything else is fair game, and even if it's not, if the rogue has UMD, she can deceive the alignment.

And with your party (Which if memory serves right, is the one you asked for a semi-mirror match for 'round this parts), perverting a good artifact is worth it.

[TheCountAlucard]

Nope, it only specifies that on heroes feast. Everything else is fair game, and even if it's not, if the rogue has UMD, she can deceive the alignment.

For as long as you possess the cornucopia, you can withdraw one fruit from it every morning (roll d% to determine the kind of fruit obtained), provided that you are lawful good, neutral good, or lawful neutral.

Oh, and the rogue doesn't have any ranks in UMD, as I said above.

And with your party (Which if memory serves right, is the one you asked for a semi-mirror match for 'round this parts), perverting a good artifact is worth it.

You've got a point there, however.

[John Campbell]

Any item that grants extra actions in a round is highly abusable. It's the equivalent of a free Quicken'ed spell that stacks with another Quickened spell but doesn't use up extra spell slots. Extra actions in a round are why Haste was so uber in 3.0 that it had to be slapped with the nerf bat in 3.5: It's not so much of an issue for fighters to gain standard actions, but when a full-caster gets one, it's havoc. I believe there is also a set of boots in the MIC that also grant extra actions, so be careful.

Belt of battle does not work that way!

It takes a swift action to activate it. You can only take one swift action per round. You cannot gain another swift action from activating the belt of battle - a full-round action is not the same thing as an extra turn. Pseudo-Quickening a spell with a belt of battle therefore does not stack with actually casting a Quickened spell, which also uses up your one and only swift action for the round.

For the casters, it's basically just a cheaper, slotted, single-charge rod of metamagic Quicken - and I won't argue that the rod of metamagic Quicken isn't horrifically broken, but the belt of battle at least isn't any worse. And it works for non-casters, too. Since non-casters ordinarily have no way to do the equivalent of Quickening their actions, the belt of battle benefits them a lot more than it does casters, for whom it's just providing another means of doing something they could already do. That means it helps level the playing field between the casters and the non-casters... and the non-casters can use all the levelling they can get.

[Kizara]

Belt of battle does not work that way!

It takes a swift action to activate it. You can only take one swift action per round. You cannot gain another swift action from activating the belt of battle - a full-round action is not the same thing as an extra turn. Pseudo-Quickening a spell with a belt of battle therefore does not stack with actually casting a Quickened spell, which also uses up your one and only swift action for the round.

For the casters, it's basically just a cheaper, slotted, single-charge rod of metamagic Quicken - and I won't argue that the rod of metamagic Quicken isn't horrifically broken, but the belt of battle at least isn't any worse. And it works for non-casters, too. Since non-casters ordinarily have no way to do the equivalent of Quickening their actions, the belt of battle benefits them a lot more than it does casters, for whom it's just providing another means of doing something they could already do. That means it helps level the playing field between the casters and the non-casters... and the non-casters can use all the levelling they can get.

Step 1) take power attack

Step 2) take leap attack

Step 3) Buy Belt of Battle

Step 4) Leap attack, then full attack with your 3:1 ratio in the same action.

This works even better if you are a FB, as Belt of Battle stacks with frenzy and you have your even better PA conversion.

Mind you, Pounce Barbarian can basically already do this, but I don't feel that's reasonable ethier, and I doubt the Count here has pounce barb's in his game (judging by the feel of his description).

[Laesin]

Depending on the frequency of constructs and undead in your campaign the rogue may be interested in a greater crystal of truedeath or demolition. They are usually high on my list as any class with access to precision damage.

[skywalker]

Depending on the frequency of constructs and undead in your campaign the rogue may be interested in a greater crystal of truedeath or demolition. They are usually high on my list as any class with access to precision damage.

I think between the evil cleric and the true necromancer, they've probably got dealing with the undead covered.

I think a scythe wielding cleric of Nerull would be bad-ass. If Nerull wasn't so one-dimensional, he would be cooler.

[Laesin]

I think between the evil cleric and the true necromancer, they've probably got dealing with the undead covered.

Maybe so, but nothing gets my goat more than my character being shut down by enemy immunities.
Still, demolition crystal is probably the better bet.