Questions on Grapple

[Kyroswolf]

I'm about to start a new tabletop game as DM. One of my players has informed me that he wants to play a Reaping Mauler from Comp War. I got no problem with this, but know that he will be doing alot of grappling, because the class is built around it.

My question is this. He starts with a BAB of 6/1, so he gets 2 attacks for a full round action. Does that mean he can attempt 2 grapple check, or is a grapple a full round action? He has been bugging me about this and I can't find a definitive answer in my resources. Can the community here give he a hand?

[RandomLunatic]

He can attempt two grapple checks as a full attack. The first will be with a bonus of 6+Size+STR+Other mods, and the second at 1+Size+STR+Other mods.

Basically, grapples are attack actions, so he can fit them in anywhere he can normally make an attack. Full attacks, single attacks, AoOs, etc.

[Kyroswolf]

Thanks. I was leaning that way myself as I could not find where it was explicitly not allowed. Nice to have some backup.

[Craig1f]

You can trip, disarm, and grapple as single attacks as part of a full-attack.


I don't believe you can Bullrush though. Which sucks. It'd be nice if I could swing at someone a couple times, and then use my last attack to push them away 5-feet, and then take a 5-foot step back, so they can't full-attack me.

[Lucyfur]

Reaping Maulers are not good grapplers. Stay away!

[SoD]

Why are they not good grapplers? I don't have my book right here, but memory tells me: designed for a character with good str=bonus to grapple. Pre-req: improved grapple=good for grapple. Has full BAB=good for grapple.

Plus it gets these nifty grapple bonus stuff like killing after x (5?) rounds of pinning an opponant.

[Chronos]

I don't have my book right here, but memory tells me: designed for a character with good str=bonus to grapple. Pre-req: improved grapple=good for grapple. Has full BAB=good for grapple.

The fist two don't make the class good for grappling; they mean that you have to be already good for grappling before you take the class. And full BAB is hardly something to write home about. What does this class give you that straight Fighter wouldn't?

As for bonus effects you can gain on a grapple, you still have to make the grapple checks first. Most things you fight will either be much better than you at grappling (if they're big, especially, and a lot of monsters have other abilities that make grappling better), or they'll have some means of avoiding grapples entirely (Freedom of Movement, high Escape Artist, extradimensional escape methods, etc.).

[Keld Denar]

or they'll have some means of avoiding grapples entirely (Freedom of Movement, high Escape Artist, extradimensional escape methods, etc.).

or Close Quarters Fighting (CWar)


That one is all kinds of ouch, especially if you have PA active from your turn still.

[Person_Man]

Why are they not good grapplers?

An optimized grapple build generally has 3 things:

1) Scorpion's Grasp feat from Sandstorm. When you hit an enemy with a melee attack, you get a free Grapple check. This makes your attacks far more efficient.

2) A high Grapple check. There are a ton of ways to do this. Off the top of my head - anything that increases Str, size (Expansion), and 1 level of Marshal, or enough levels of Justicar (which replaces Grapple with a Use Rope check).

3) High unarmed damage. There are a ton of ways to do this as well. I'm fond of Monk/Fist of the Forest/Warshaper/Psychic Warrior. But there are many other ways to get it up to 12d8 by mid levels.

Reaping Mauler doesn't really have any of these. It's certainly playable in many gaming groups. It's just not objectively strong compared to builds that draw on a wider variety of D&D supplements.

[SadisticFishing]

Reaping Mauler requires Clever Wrestler which requires Medium size. Reaping Maulers are MUCH less effective than grapply fighters (enlarged is easy enough) - much less clerics or psychic warriors.

[TheDright]

The only reason(s) to choose reaping mauler are for the sleeper lock or devastating grapple abilities. I think its pretty funny that you can either stun or kill an enemy just by crushing them.

In fact, I thought it would be interesting for someone to wrestle something large and almost impossible to kill, like a dragon, and kill it with one of those abilities.

[Kyroswolf]

Well the character he is building isn't meant to be an Uber grappler. He isn't taking 1 level of monk as I had suggested, just rogue5/fighter2/RM1. (starting the campaign at 8th level). Thanks for the help on the grappling question. If yall want to continue your discussion of a great grappling build then go ahead.

[Epinephrine]

I like the Rules of the Game articles, there's a series of 4 articles on grappling on the wizards site, probably worth reading to get a picture of what actions can be taken by his enemies etc.

Part1: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050301a
Part2: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050308a
Part3: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050315a
Part4: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050322a