Tarrasque + trollbane(dungeonscape)

[Godna]

What happens if the tarrasque's normal hit points (not nonlethal) are reduced to 0 using the trollbane stuff from dungeonscape?

The trollbane makes the monster lose the benefit of regeneration on the next attack. Before you ask i have checked and trollbane isnt limited to trolls. So what happens?


edit: since it removes the effect/benefit of regeneration and the wish requirement to kill the tarrasque is in its regeneration section does that kill it?

edit2: never mind i just remembered the tarrasque is immune to poisons

[Sstoopidtallkid]

What happens if the tarrasque's normal hit points (not nonlethal) are reduced to 0 using the trollbane stuff from dungeonscape?

The trollbane makes the monster lose the benefit of regeneration on the next attack. Before you ask i have checked and trollbane isnt limited to trolls. So what happens?


edit: since it removes the effect/benefit of regeneration and the wish requirement to kill the tarrasque is in its regeneration section does that kill it?

edit2: never mind i just remembered the tarrasque is immune to poisons

No, it is still valid, as IIRC there is a Trollbane weapon enhancement in the MIC that also cancels regeneration for 1 round. The question is still valid.

[Godna]

Okay, than the question is on! again.
*points in a dramatic direction*

[drengnikrafe]

I can't say for sure (I don't have total control over knowledge like Lord Sylvanos, or whoever more or less runs the RAW Q&A), but I'd give you points for the craftiness.
I'd look at this from 2 ways.
First, if your DM is enough of an insane person to attack you with a Terrasque at a point when it would be a challenge, he probably wants you to die (and it feels like less of a "Being crushed under the DM's Iron Heel" then the rock falling on you), and wouldn't accept crafty ways around your death.
However,
Second, it seems like if you can come up with that, it should work just fine, all things considered. I didn't read the Terrasque's stat block very carefully, but I don't think there's a clause about stopping effects that stop regeneration.

I'd say that... I'm moderately sure that the Terrasque's stat block says that all damage is turned Nonlethal, so it would still be nonlethal damage, but it wouldn't regenerate it. Plus, I'm moderately sure that stat block says the ONLY way the Terrasque dies is by the Wish at negative HP (however much it was)... I'd say that even if you DID somehow manage to get it's HP to -10 all in lethal damage, it wouldn't die. We're talking about a very powerful being created by the 12 gods knows what. If only one of it exists in the whole multiverse, you can't just kill it like a normal thing...

Or, like this:
It only stops the regeneration for 1 round, right? So, the Terrasque dies for one round, then regenerates itself in 1d6 rounds (like it's limbs, as a guess).

But, this is an uneducated Rookie's guess. If there's anyone out there with actual knowledge or experience, please, speak up.

[Godna]

Regeneration (Ex)

No form of attack deals lethal damage to the tarrasque. The tarrasque regenerates even if it fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect. If the tarrasque fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to the creature’s full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hp). The tarrasque is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot, a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem’s cursed wound ability.

The tarrasque can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage total to its full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hit points) and using a wish or miracle spell to keep it dead.

If the tarrasque loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d6 minutes (the detached piece dies and decays normally). The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.

The nonlethal damage thing is covered in under regeneration

[sikyon]

If you remove the regeneration ability then he can be killed without the wish. This seems valid.

[DrowVampyre]

It should kill it, yeah. If your DM doesn't let it for some reason, then you at least have the tarrasque unconscious. This is where you gate it to the elemental plane of water or the like...because for all his nasty abilities, the tarrasque can't breathe water. He may not be truly dead...but he's never waking up, either. ^_-

[Godna]

Follow my reasoning for moment:

Assuming the DM doesn't let that kill it and it winds up unconscious:

Regeneration turns all damage into nonlethal damage except for any specified types.
Regeneration also heals nonlethal damage at a set speed.
Lethal damage ǂ nonlethal damage
So if you get it to negative hitpoints its regeneration wont cover the lethal damage. So it will be stuck at negative hitpoints until natural healing kicks in however many weeks later.
But in the mean time at negative HP hes unconscious and at your mercy

[Aquillion]

Follow my reasoning for moment:

Assuming the DM doesn't let that kill it and it winds up unconscious

Once you're in that point, you've already wandered into DM-fiat territory and it's hard to say what's going to happen. Per RAW, I believe anything that nullifies regeneration will nullify all of the Terrasque's special defenses (since it's part of its regeneration ability); if your DM arbitrarily rules that the Terrasque's regeneration abilities are protected, how are you going to do any lethal damage to it in the first place?

[Godna]

I have a copy of the epic level handbook and i don't mind bludgeoning my DM into a slightly more bloody pool on my floor with it

In all seriousness i was referring to if he ruled that the wish part was separate from regeneration and not one part

[Breaw]

Am I missing something here? As far as I read it (2 quotes from the MM):

1) "No form of attack deals lethal damage to the tarrasque."

2) "The tarrasque is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds..."

So as far as I can read, there is no talking about lethal damage or damage that the tarrasque can't regenerate because neither exist.

It sounds like you need to be beating the tarrasques DR by at least 40 forever, or get yourself a 17th level caster with wish or miracle.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Am I missing something here? As far as I read it (2 quotes from the MM):

1) "No form of attack deals lethal damage to the tarrasque."

2) "The tarrasque is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds..."

So as far as I can read, there is no talking about lethal damage or damage that the tarrasque can't regenerate because neither exist.

It sounds like you need to be beating the tarrasques DR by at least 40 forever, or get yourself a 17th level caster with wish or miracle.

The idea is a Trollbane enhancement to weapons, which prevents Regeneration, will stop all of those effects, as all of them are listed under the Regeneration header.

[leperkhaun]

Am I missing something here? As far as I read it (2 quotes from the MM):

1) "No form of attack deals lethal damage to the tarrasque."

2) "The tarrasque is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds..."

So as far as I can read, there is no talking about lethal damage or damage that the tarrasque can't regenerate because neither exist.

It sounds like you need to be beating the tarrasques DR by at least 40 forever, or get yourself a 17th level caster with wish or miracle.

Well thats basically the question. I item stated suppresses regeneration for a round. Since #1 is the result of its regeneration ability and the "cant be killed except for wish/miricale" is included in the regeneration block, an argument could be made that if the regeneration was supressed, those qualities would also be supressed. Thats what the OP is asking.

My personal view would be. It would take lethal damage and would not regenerate, however only a wish/miricale could put it down for good.

[Breaw]

Well thats basically the question. I item stated suppresses regeneration for a round. Since #1 is the result of its regeneration ability and the "cant be killed except for wish/miricale" is included in the regeneration block, an argument could be made that if the regeneration was supressed, those qualities would also be supressed. Thats what the OP is asking.

My personal view would be. It would take lethal damage and would not regenerate, however only a wish/miricale could put it down for good.

There we go, read up a bit more on this whole trollbane business. (I'm more from the school of people working out ways to kill a tarrasque using PHB, DMG & MM). On the trollbane front: it seems like a poorly designed concept. I mean, you're talking about something that is relatively cheap to aquire, and yet makes nearly unkillable world destroyers very killable. I mean, the PHB clearly doesn't take into account what every other book out there lists as a possible weapon, but if it could it would say 'trollbane doesn't work'.

On a more general note: having something simply negate regenerate of any type is (imho) just cheating. I mean, you're specifically trying to make something that can't be downed by normal means, and now you're making the 'trick' to killing them about as straigth forward as bringing coldiron to kill demons (or was that devils....).

If I was DMing I would undoubtedly rule that trollbane is treated as a poison in this case, making the tarrasque immune to it. It's not that I want it to be unkillable, it's just that it was specifically designed to be a creature with pretty much no weaknesses, giving a glaring one at 90 gp a bottle is a bit silly.

Sorry about the rant there, got ahead of myself a bit. On a seperate note, what the heck qualifies as surpassing epic DR anyway?

[Godna]

Well thats basically the question. I item stated suppresses regeneration for a round. Since #1 is the result of its regeneration ability and the "cant be killed except for wish/miricale" is included in the regeneration block, an argument could be made that if the regeneration was supressed, those qualities would also be supressed. Thats what the OP is asking.

My personal view would be. It would take lethal damage and would not regenerate, however only a wish/miricale could put it down for good.

Do what happens when it actually reaches -10hp?

edit: And Breaw I mentioned in the first post that i looked it up and it was a poison someone else brought up the enchantment

[Sstoopidtallkid]

An epic weapon. As in, anything with a total bonus of over +11, or a single bonus of +6. And I too might rule the Trollbane oil doesn't work, but I know I saw it out there once as an enhancement for magic weapons designed for killing trolls and other monsters of their ilk. I'd rule that works, as it is a case of "general trumps specific". Besides, if a player has a magic enhancement on his weapon, ruling it doesn't work when he's facing the nigh-unkillable god-monster just seems silly.

[Ascension]

The Tarrasque theoretically should be able to beat your melee combatants anyway. Trollbane just gives them a way to do damage, it doesn't win the fight for them.

[Godna]

what if they go (lion totem) pounce, leap attack, frenzy beserker, power attack, shock trooper, and quick draw to keep pulling new weapons out that are enchanted with trollbane for each attack(cheesy i know) that could win them the fight without wish right?