Bards

[Azerian Kelimon]

Yes, but you would still be subpar. First off, you sacrifice BAB for useless spell levels. Second, you gain no bonus feats or special combat focused abilities to make up for the preqs.

And Third, you're still a Suckomancer addicted to Space Crack. No way to salvage that.

[Ascension]

Could we actually get back to talking about bards here?

I'm a fan of the melee bard, myself. I'd really like to play a Bard/War Chanter (with snowflake wardance, of course, and might as well go with TWF if you're wardancing, since it's limited to light weapons (IIRC)). War Chanter isn't the best PrC out there, but it is fun. Let out a Singing Shout at the start of battle, then combine songs to Inspire Legion and Inspire Recklessness simultaneously... Oh look, everyone in the party has +4 strength, full BAB, and the ability to convert AC to attack bonus. Oh, and I'm doing the wardance. Nobody in the party is going to miss anything. 'specially not me.

[Keld Denar]

Badge of Valor is from MiC most likely. Can you list the sources for the other stuff? I've never created a bard before and I'd really like to at least know the basics behind a one that's effective in melee and also boosting other peoples' melee.

Song of the Heart is in the Ebberon Campaign Sourcebook. Its available as both a feat and as an alt class feature (giving up inspire competance.....WAY worth it!).

Dragonfire Inspiration converts your +x/+x inspire courage into a straight +xd6 fire damage. Its in Dragon Magic. Alternatively, if you have draconic heratige of some sort (dragonwraught kobald, dragonblooded) then you gain the energy type of your ancestor (steel and mist? dragons are best for sonic type energy damage).

Words of Creation is a feat from BoED which requires you to be an exalted character. If you take xd4 subdual damage (where x is the required ranks in Perform required to use the ability (IE 3 for Inspire Courage). It doubles all of the bonuses from the various bard songs. Most people debate what gets included in this doubling, but I personally think it only applies to base bard song. I honestly don't think this feat is worth the hassle of exalted status (why be a bard if you can't play pranks?). From a purely optimizer PoV, this feat is a must have.

Badge of Valor is indeed in MIC, in the back with the set items. The set is intended for a Bard/Marshall blend, but Badge is great for a pure bard as well. You activate the Badge as an immediate action to increase the effects of your Inspire Courage ability by 1.

Inspirational Boost is a swift action Bard1 spell in Spell Compendium (a reprint from Comp Adv??). Casting it before beginning a Inspire Courage increases the song by 1. The trick with that is to cast Insp Boost, then Inspire Courage, then at the end of your turn, trip the Badge (uses next turns swift action). This nets you a nice +2 to your song enough times per day that it isn't an issue usually.

Another item I didn't mention is the Vest of Legends. Its in DMGII and gives a +5 to your effective bard level to determine your music abilities. This nets you the max rank of Inspire at level 15 instead of 20, although I don't know how it would scale into epics (at level 20, you'd Inspire as a level 25 bard??). It also has some other small benefits such as bonuses to perform checks, which is great with Melodic Casting, the feat that lets you cast while singing and swap perform with concentration checks.

[Frosty]

Thanks, but what does Song of the Heart actually do? And how do I turn the bard into a scary melee mofo? Should I go Tiger-Claw to get lots of attacks? how does bard synergize with crusader?

[BardicDuelist]

Bard's are great. My second favorite class (Factotum is now my favorite).

Bard/Lyric Thaumaturge/Sublime Chord/Virtuoso is very powerful, but not broken.

[Chronos]

Though I will concede this to those who insult Bards... playing a level one Bard is tough. Two cantrips per day, one use of Bardic Music, and a +0 BAB... I remember using aid another a lot, and trying to occaisionally drop a daze. At least I got to wear armor when I gave the rogue a flanking bonus.

Sure, bards suck at first level. But that's just because everything but druids and warlocks suck at first level. They get better.

Frosty-- Song of the Heart

[Frosty]

Damned work censor. I can't read that site either Chronos. Thanks for linking though.

[Draz74]

Damned work censor. I can't read that site either Chronos. Thanks for linking though.

Adds 1 to bardic music effects (whether they are bonuses to d20 rolls, bonus hit dice of temp HP, or save DCs).

[The Sandman]

Chaos Music is also an amazing feat to take, especially if you're multiclassing. It adds four to your bard level for all bardic music related purposes, including (presumably) what types of music you have access to. The only downside is that it also gives you a chaotic aura.

Oh, and a fun combo: Slippers of Battledancing + Ring of Entropic Deflection + Snowflake Wardance. As long as you can keep moving, the Slippers of Battledancing replace your Strength mod with your Charisma mod for attack and damage rolls, which stacks with the Snowflake Wardance. The ring, meanwhile, gives a 20% miss chance to all ranged attacks made against you, which is upped to 50% by synergy with the Slippers. The best part? Unless I read the relevant descriptions horribly wrong, that includes ranged touch attacks.

[Keld Denar]

Thanks, but what does Song of the Heart actually do? And how do I turn the bard into a scary melee mofo? Should I go Tiger-Claw to get lots of attacks? how does bard synergize with crusader?

Um...Bard4/Warblade16 or Bard4/Crusader16 are both very potent melee builds. They end up getting the best of both worlds with Song of the White Raven. The warblade does more damage with Xing Mongoose and Time Stands Still while TWF with short swords or kukiris, while the crusader is the ultimate friend of the party, inspiring all kinds of courage while utilizing Devoted Spirit shanananananananagans. Someone over on CharOp did a very extensive review on the main builds and differences, but I can't for the life of me find it. I think it was by JanusJones, but my brain is fuzzy from working with AutoCAD all day.

EDIT:
FOUND IT!
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread...ghlight=bardic

[Frosty]

But isn't Inspire Courage based off of your bard levels? If you only have 8 bard levels, how do you get a high enough Inspire to go with your Dragonfire Inspiration?

Hmm, I gotta look at that link later but if I do it in a gestalt game, I'd go Crusader for the Charisma synergy with both bard and warlock. Plus, Mettle is nice, and you can even Smite once a day :p

[Townopolis]

But isn't Inspire Courage based off of your bard levels? If you only have 8 bard levels, how do you get a high enough Inspire to go with your Dragonfire Inspiration?

Hmm, I gotta look at that link later but if I do it in a gestalt game, I'd go Crusader for the Charisma synergy with both bard and warlock. Plus, Mettle is nice, and you can even Smite once a day :p

Your Warblade and Crusader levels stack with your Bard levels for determining the effect of your Inspire Courage ability.

^ from the Song of the White Raven feat.

[Frosty]

So you can activate Inspire Courage as a swift action. You don't have to concentrate on it do you? How long does the Inspire last? It says as long as your allies cna hear you. Does that mean you can speak as a free action each turn to sing or whatever to keep the effect going?

[Starbuck_II]

So you can activate Inspire Courage as a swift action. You don't have to concentrate on it do you? How long does the Inspire last? It says as long as your allies cna hear you. Does that mean you can speak as a free action each turn to sing or whatever to keep the effect going?

Standard action to maintain: Dur as long as use and 5 rounds after.

[Townopolis]

Nope, maintaining inspire courage is not an action at all, you just "continue singing" and your allies have to be within earshot to benefit. SRD

You can't cast spells while singing though, unless you take melodic casting.

[FinalJustice]

For all bard-melee lovers, check the Gloves of Heartfelt Blows on Dragon Compendium. Cha on damage, it's fire, easily resistible, but it's still not negligible, and just for 14k gp if I'm not wrong.

[Hal]

I cannot remember what it is now, but there is either a feat or a spell that doubles the duration of Inspire Courage. So, it lasts for a full minute after you cease to perform. If only I had my books in front of me . . .

[Keld Denar]

I cannot remember what it is now, but there is either a feat or a spell that doubles the duration of Inspire Courage. So, it lasts for a full minute after you cease to perform. If only I had my books in front of me . . .

That would be Lingering Song....however there is a +2 eqiv weapon enhancement in MIC called Harmonizing that gives you roughly the same effect, plus some other nice things. That and the enhacement that gives you +1/2 bard level to damage (for striaght bards) and Sudden Stunning from DMGII (for people with maxed +cha) are very nice enhancements for a melee bard or one seeking to maximize use of Whirling Blade. Sudden Stunning is so amazing.

[Devin]

Can someone link to that awesome picture of a Ravenloft Bard with blood on her bowstring? That seems like it would fit here.

[Partysan]

I remember that picture... I think I even stole it^^ sadly I don't remember the link... maybe someone else can help you.

However some time ago on this board somebody posted a build for a 3 or 4 bard team... at least one multiclassed with a ToB class, I think one Sublime Chord... they had insane bonuses and I think used leadership for an insanely buffed up army... can anyone remember that build and post it again or link it? It seemed quite awesome to me

[nerulean]

Hehehe, multiple buffing characters for the win. The only reason not to have parties of four bards is all the freakin' paperwork they produce.

[Arbitrarity]

I need a replacement gish class for this build, but I was thinking of trying something like bard4/swordsage1/crusader1/JPM1/(3.0)Virtuoso 1/JPM2/SubCh 1/Full BAB PRC 2/JPM 7.

Should I go spellsword, then something else? I'm not sure about abjurant champion being the best option here, as bards don't get shield, or mage armor-like spells.

[Jack_Simth]

Sublime Chord.

Metamagic Song.

Persist Spell.

Mass Hold Monster.

On the non-optimised side (that may not be very optimised, but it's amusing...), Bards Are Fun.

In fact, I should probably find a Gestalt game and play a Bard//Favoured Soul of Olidammara (Olidammara is fun too, you see...).

Nah, if you want to go crazy with a Bard....

UA variant Savage Bard (for the good Fort Save)-5/Ur-Priest-2/Mystic Theurge (Bard, Ur-Priest)-3/Sublime Chord-1/Mystic Theurge+5 (Ur-Priest, Sublime Chord)/Other full casting Arcane PrC-4 (Sublime Chord).

Casts as:
Bard-8
Ur-Priest 10 (caster level depends on interpretation, but will be either 12, 13, or 19 before Practiced Spellcaster (recommended))
Sublime Chord 10 (depending on interpretation, caster level of either 15 or 18 before Practiced Spellcaster (recommended))

Downsides: You're Chaotic Evil, illiterate, all the gods hate you (including the evil ones), you're drowning in gouda, and you've got two primary casting stats (Wisdom and Charisma) to worry about.

[BRC]

The problem with bards is that, while every other core class is based around combat, the best thing for a bard to do in combat 90% of the time is just keep singing, so if you play a bard in a combat-heavy campaign first get that head injury treated, then bring a book.


In non hack and slash games, bards can be very useful, but most games are based around hack and slash

[nerulean]

A bard can function perfectly fine in a combat heavy campaign, but does require a certain ability to let others take the limelight that is rightfully yours. Of course, if you optimise sufficiently then you'll be powerful, but if your party have optimised to the same extent then they're probably more powerful, and all of your buffs are making them even more so.

[BRC]

A bard can function perfectly fine in a combat heavy campaign, but does require a certain ability to let others take the limelight that is rightfully yours. Of course, if you optimise sufficiently then you'll be powerful, but if your party have optimised to the same extent then they're probably more powerful, and all of your buffs are making them even more so.

I'm not saying bards arn't useful in a Combat-Heavy campaign, quite the opposite in fact. At level 1 a bard esentially gives all their allies +1 weapons. However, bards are boring to play in a combat-heavy campaign.

[sonofzeal]

I'm not saying bards arn't useful in a Combat-Heavy campaign, quite the opposite in fact. At level 1 a bard esentially gives all their allies +1 weapons. However, bards are boring to play in a combat-heavy campaign.

Agreed. Lingering Song and Disciple of Metal make them much more fun to play though, the first because you can afford to stop singing and try to stab people, and the second so that you look totally badass doing it.

[KillianHawkeye]

I haven't played as a Bard, but I did add a level to my Dervish build that I've been working on so I could get Snowflake Wardance.

I wanted to get as much dancing as I could, but I also really wanted to be able to say Snowflake Dervish Dance.

[The Sandman]

That would be Lingering Song....however there is a +2 eqiv weapon enhancement in MIC called Harmonizing that gives you roughly the same effect, plus some other nice things.

Actually, as far as RAW goes, I think those would stack. Lingering song won't kick in until the music ends, which won't be until the duration of the Harmonizing effect runs out.

[Saihyol]

I like Bards for their flexibility. This has always been the core of the class for me as they are able to do a little of everything.

They have:
Good skill options and skill points (particularly around sneak and diplomatic options), some arcane magic, some divine magic, moderate BAB progression, moderate HP, team buffs/supernatural ability, can wear armour, random knowledge.

The impact of this is that they are not as good at any of these things as a class designed to do just a few of these things and that seems the right thing to me, they are a sub for most classes;

Need a little more healing? Bard.
Need a little more magic? Bard.
Need a little more melee? Bard.
Need a little more sneaking? Bard.
Need a bonus for any skill? Bard.
Need to convince that NPC of anything? Bard.

Essentially I take a Bard when there are 5 players or more. Core skill sets: Combat, Arcane, Divine, Sneak. If we have these four the Bard rounds out the party with the option of adding to any of them.

Games where it is pure H&S do leave the Bard looking underpowered, I usually end up with the Bard using ranged attacks behind the main melee types and acting as a shield for the pure casters should anything get through. In any game where skills and knowledge, interactions and diplomacy come into play: Bard FTW.

The only thing that bugs me about them (and I know this is a major part) is the singing. The mechanical bonuses I like but the idea that we charge a group of monsters with my character singing away has always made me cringe.

Don't get me wrong on this either, the idea of a minstrel type persona who travels, plays music at taverns and picks up random knowledge is cool (If you've read Robin Hobb's Assassin series - and if you haven't I strongly recommend it - Starling and her description of minstrels is exactly how I imagine bards). What I find less convincing is the concept of singing/playing a lute into combat.

My favourite bard I've played though was a musician:

War-drummer - this was a variant the DM and I came up with together for a campaign where the party were the remains of a barbaric tribe - basically we striped the non-combat music (suggestion/fascinate/inspire competence) and boosted the combat impact. If I remember rightly I got to improve Barbarian rage (duration and provided a 'free' use) create a fear effect and improved damage from inspire courage more quickly.