Maneuver Swapping

[Draz74]

Hey, I apologize, because I know this question has already come up once in a while. But my Google-fu has proved inadequate to check the answer.

When swapping out an old [Tome of Battle] maneuver and replacing it with a new one, does the old one count as a prerequisite towards the new one?

For example, as a Level 4 Warblade with no other Tiger Claw maneuvers or stances, can I swap out Wolf Fang Strike for Sudden Leap?

My instincts say "no," but I seem to remember reading "yes" before.

If "yes," where does that ruling come from? CustServ? FAQ? Or some obscure line in the original book?

[Frosty]

I remember yes, but I dunno where it was from.

[Fixer]

Under each classes 'Maneuvers' section it describes the process for replacing a maneuver.

You can choose a new maneuver of any level you like, as long as you observe your restriction on the highest-level maneuvers you know; you need not replace the old maneuver with a maneuver of the same level.

I have not read anywhere that you can or cannot use a maneuver to qualify for its replacement. It would be up to your GM to decide.

I do know that if you no longer meet the prerequisites for a maneuver you can still use it without penalty. Using this as a base of logic, it can be assumed that you can use a maneuver to be a prerequisite for its replacement, as doing so would not prevent you from being able to use the replacement maneuver. The only thing that matters is what maneuvers you know when you LEARN the maneuver.

[Townopolis]

I don't think it's ever really been stated definitively in any official capacity. I'd say no, others would say yes. I'm also dubious about, for example...

I have wolf fang strike and sudden leap, I then trade wolf fang for soaring raptor strike. (Because I now have 2 maneuvers, both of which have a prereq of one other TC maneuver.)

[AlterForm]

Someone wrote in to Customer Service and had the answer put into a ToB thread on the CharOp Boards. I'll see if I can dig it up.

Summary: You can choose/lose maneuvers in whatever order you wish, whether it be an optimal or suboptimal order.

[EDIT]: Grrr. I can't find the thread.

[EDIT2]: Heh. Forgot the standard "But that's still CS talking. We know how they roll"

[EDIT3]: Found it!

[Draz74]

I don't think it's ever really been stated definitively in any official capacity. I'd say no, others would say yes. I'm also dubious about, for example...

I have wolf fang strike and sudden leap, I then trade wolf fang for soaring raptor strike. (Because I now have 2 maneuvers, both of which have a prereq of one other TC maneuver.)

No, that one is fine. In fact, as Fixer said, you (in this example) could even swap out Wolf Fang for something non-Tiger Claw with no problem. You can still use Sudden Leap regardless of whether you meet the prerequisite for it. (In fact, in this case you technically still do meet the prereq for Sudden Leap, via itself ... not that it matters one way or the other.)

@AlterForm: is that CustServ ruling really the most definitive answer we have? Because I vaguely remember reading it, and thinking, "That doesn't really answer the question, it's more of a cop-out."